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Supers/Titan Warp Deceleration Times
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Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-11 06:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Prelate Hucel-Ge
The exiting warp process takes ages. Is this intentional? If so, it's going kill being able to move supercapitals solo, which is an incredible pain. When playing around in SiSi, the time to exit warp is around 20 seconds for supers, which is more than enough to be scanned down, bumped , tackled, and likely killed. You're no longer really able to get into a safespot and cloak before you're able to be scanned down, which kills the idea of moving solo while cap fit. It's not even really nerfing supercapital power projection, as large, supercapital-holding alliances will still be able to move their superfleets with impunity (due to the fact that they move in massive packs of 100+ supers during move ops). In fact, this is going to lead to smaller alliances using supercaps even LESS due to the fact that it takes ages to safe up (more than long enough to be scanned down and bubbled to hell and back). I really hope that CCP decides to reconsider some of these warp deceleration changes, as it just causes a lot of needless headache.
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-10-11 07:35:38 UTC
It is not a solo ship.

If your group can not support moving it you should not have one.

Fix? Get a bigger group.

No problem here.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3 - 2013-10-11 07:41:11 UTC
I was about to post something in defense of OP's point, but then I realized he said supercapitals.
Instead I will say only:


Death to all supers.
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-11 07:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Prelate Hucel-Ge
Ashina Sito wrote:
It is not a solo ship.

If your group can not support moving it you should not have one.

Fix? Get a bigger group.

No problem here.

That's a really poor point to make, because how is it fair that if I miss a move op/convoy, why should my super be STUCK in that place until we're in the area again? It's just bad game design, and is effectively forcing super pilots to unsub, unless they're willing to put themselves at unfairly massive risk. Killing off smaller-scale uses of supers, like shooting a POCO with a couple of friends is kind of sad as well, because they're rather fun, but yet not overpowered in the least. In fact, they're perfectly within the vision that CCP has for the ship: being a master of sov grinding. If the new deceleration changes go through, those activities will pretty much wind up being dead. In the current system, there's a decent chance that they can be caught if they're not on their game, but under the new changes, it's pretty much impossible to get your cloak on before being scanned down at a safe, even if you are doing things right and not being dumb.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#5 - 2013-10-11 08:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Shouldn't you be shooting small structures in a dread?

Aren't supers meant for significant fleet ops?

Doesn't the fact that people will use them with just a couple other pilots to do the small work that dreads and carriers should do serve as an indication of how trivialized the supers have become?

Isn't de-trivializing supers a good thing that puts some more spotlight back onto caps and subcaps?

I will agree that maybe everything larger than a cruiser could have its warp acceleration improved somewhat from how it is on SiSi, but not for any of the reasons you propose.
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-11 08:20:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Prelate Hucel-Ge
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Shouldn't you be shooting small structures in a dread?

Aren't supers meant for significant fleet ops?

Doesn't the fact that people will use them with just a couple other pilots to do the small work that dreads and carriers should do serve as an indication of how trivialized the supers have become?

Isn't de-trivializing supers a good thing that puts some more spotlight back onto caps and subcaps?

I will agree that maybe everything larger than a cruiser could have its warp acceleration improved somewhat from how it is on SiSi, but not for any of the reasons you propose.

1. Dreads are not good for shooting things like POCOs; the siege cycle hinders mobility, and once the thing reinforces (it will quickly), you're stuck there and are a total sitting duck. Dreads are designed for the larger sov structures, and also capital warfare.
2. No, not really, they're big ships designed to grind sov structures and shoot other capitals/supers, according to CCP.
3. Nope, because supers are designed to be sov grinding ships. That is the only role that they can possibly fill due to massive overnerfs, other than capital warfare.
4. No, supers still win wars only when mixed with a strong subcap/cap fleet. Caps are still massively important, as well as subcaps. Just look at the recent Fountain war, the CFC was able to field a massive amount of Megathrons, and there's not a thing that supers could have done (other than regular fighters, but that's a bad idea) to kill them. Subcaps and caps are arguably, stronger than ever before.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2013-10-11 10:01:35 UTC
Simple solution. While a ship is in warp it doesn't show up on probes.
Bang. Done.
Supreme clientele
The Dikembe Mutombo Shotblocking Team
#8 - 2013-10-11 13:45:46 UTC
the people with the death to all supers chant usually cant afford them......We now return to your regularly scheduled nonsense already in progress.
Chalur Dallocort
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2013-10-11 14:17:25 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Simple solution. While a ship is in warp it doesn't show up on probes.
Bang. Done.

This would be a good idea because for ships that warp reasonably quickly, it doesn't change much if anything, and it takes supers back from being nearly impossible to safe up back to just being annoying.
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-10-11 18:57:55 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Simple solution. While a ship is in warp it doesn't show up on probes.
Bang. Done.

This also sounds like a good fix to me, and would resolve this issue completely.
Jonny Copper
The Cadre Arareb Foundation
#11 - 2013-10-11 19:26:34 UTC
The simplest way to resolve this issue has nothing to do with CCP changing anything. You get a safe, initiate SD, at 10 seconds you light the cyno and jump, and then cloak when you land.
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-12 02:30:54 UTC
Jonny Copper wrote:
The simplest way to resolve this issue has nothing to do with CCP changing anything. You get a safe, initiate SD, at 10 seconds you light the cyno and jump, and then cloak when you land.

This doesn't work, someone can still easily scan down the wreck and decloak you; you'll still be within 5K of the cyno wreck.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-10-12 02:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
You can not scan down wrecks.

How about you just not jump your super into a system with neutrals in it?
Jonny Copper
The Cadre Arareb Foundation
#14 - 2013-10-12 05:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonny Copper
Prelate Hucel-Ge wrote:
Jonny Copper wrote:
The simplest way to resolve this issue has nothing to do with CCP changing anything. You get a safe, initiate SD, at 10 seconds you light the cyno and jump, and then cloak when you land.

This doesn't work, someone can still easily scan down the wreck and decloak you; you'll still be within 5K of the cyno wreck.


Im sorry but please show me where it says you can/how you can scan down wrecks. I've been trying for the past year to do that, and still cant figure it out.

Please don't tell me you just said that and own a super on TQ, because that would be beyond pathetic.
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-10-12 05:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Prelate Hucel-Ge
Jonny Copper wrote:
Prelate Hucel-Ge wrote:
Jonny Copper wrote:
The simplest way to resolve this issue has nothing to do with CCP changing anything. You get a safe, initiate SD, at 10 seconds you light the cyno and jump, and then cloak when you land.

This doesn't work, someone can still easily scan down the wreck and decloak you; you'll still be within 5K of the cyno wreck.


Im sorry but please show me where it says you can/how you can scan down wrecks. I've been trying for the past year to do that, and still cant figure it out.

Please don't tell me you just said that and own a super on TQ, because that would be beyond pathetic.

Ah, yeah, of course, you typically do a lot of combat scanning when piloting a capital ship, so this totally hinges on my ability to fly a ship that is completely unrelated to combat scanning. Roll
Either way, it's still a pretty crap solution and it's a hell of a lot more effort to work around a bad game mechanic.
Gnadolin
Space Pioneers
#16 - 2013-10-12 09:14:50 UTC
You also will have problems with logging in outside a forcefield.
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-13 20:51:49 UTC
Bump.
It'd be nice to get a GM response on this issue, as it's pretty serious for super/titan owners.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#18 - 2013-10-13 22:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
GMs are not in charge of game balance. CCP devs are.

And I belive that if you're finding normal to be under scanning attemps when you're moving your supers, then somehow this new feature, by discouraging you to do it when neutrals are in the system, will probably make you save a few supers from a certain death.

You should be grateful, really !

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Solu Terona
Alexylva Paradox
#19 - 2013-10-14 01:26:16 UTC
Confirming OP is a massive idiot.

Supers use their jump drives more than their warp drives

Humans must eventually break out from the limits of biology, its not radical to accept the inevitable.
YesYes NoNoNo
Karmic Rebalance
#20 - 2013-10-14 05:53:34 UTC
Prelate Hucel-Ge wrote:
Jonny Copper wrote:
The simplest way to resolve this issue has nothing to do with CCP changing anything. You get a safe, initiate SD, at 10 seconds you light the cyno and jump, and then cloak when you land.

This doesn't work, someone can still easily scan down the wreck and decloak you; you'll still be within 5K of the cyno wreck.


Nope, you don't land at the wreck, you land at the spot in the destination system equivalent to where you were in the system you left....
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