These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

First post First post First post
Author
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-10-10 21:10:45 UTC
Seras VictoriaX wrote:
Out of game rewards only please.


This.

Thank you CCP Guard and Manifest for your posts.
Finally it sounds like we can have a good and constructive level of communication. I will reopen my subscription..
So sad that i have no trust in this CSM anymore to defend a clean and sane EVE after reading what many of their members have written during the somergate.
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#162 - 2013-10-10 21:11:57 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Gogela wrote:
PLEX, even in bulk, seems perfectly fine to me.


no, he's right with respect to handing out plex as rewards. whether scorpions, or a stack of plex; ccp are still giving players a fist full of isk and that fucks with the sandbox.

on the other hand, people buying and selling plex isn't an issue.

here's why; plex spawned by CCP and given out is a resource that has no limit and provides wealth in conjunction with the pilots day to day activities. plex purchased by your average joe eve player is limited to the cash in their bank account; and you can either earn money at work to turn plex in to isk, or play eve (don't argue that you can do both, because you're either going to get fired or make **** isk/hour to the point of irrelevance) and hence in some capacity plex via that method is limited.

however this really isn't about how plex works and lets shut up now please?

I explained how it works. Why don't you explain to me the difference between CCP contracting a community site, paying the developer in cash, and that developer turning around and buying a truckload of PLEX, and CCP just paying the community site developer in PLEX. Do it. What the hell is the difference?


read the post you quoted for the explanation of the difference!

I did and it doesn't address what I said at all. PLEX = $20. I'm a web designer in RL. So if I do a site for company X and charge them 5 grand, I could get 250 PLEX. I could do that right now. If CCP had me do a site I would charge them real life money for my real life work. I don't care about EvE at this point I care about getting paid for my work. They pay me 5 grand and I buy 250 PLEX. The only difference between these scenarios is who my RL client was... and what does that matter? Answer that.

There is one difference. EvE players who build sites for the community do it because it's fun. Thus, they will work for peanuts. It's good business to pay eve players to develop their labors of love, and encourage more of it. It's a frickin' bargain.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#163 - 2013-10-10 21:12:07 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I explained how it works. Why don't you explain to me the difference between CCP contracting a community site, paying the developer in cash, and that developer turning around and buying a truckload of PLEX, and CCP just paying the community site developer in PLEX. Do it. What the hell is the difference?
I agree with you to some point. I would say it is a matter of quantity though. If CCP decided to hand just enough cash to a non-profit 3rd party community person to help with hosting costs or such I could live with that.

If CCP were "contracting" a community dev as you call it, then they are IMO business partners and I would expect that the community dev would have to follow rigid rules regarding his in-game activities similar to a CCP dev. Basically a business partner of CCP can't be a regular player anymore cause that would indeed hurt the sandbox.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#164 - 2013-10-10 21:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
CCP Guard wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
I'd like a little more information on the SOMER lottery issue specifically as that was the really immense giveaway here and it's not really well addressed. Specifically, why an in-game business was given such immense prizes as "a fansite" that wound up making them almost certainly literally trillions of isk. It's not really addressed at all in your post: no indication of why SOMER, no indication of what process went on here and why the CSM was never consulted, no indication of what other "fansites" have gotten these sort of things.

It's not just that SOMER got the lottery gifts. It's that they were absolutely stupendously massive. There's also the seperate problem of Navigator officially declaring them Not A Scam.

The IWS issue would not have been nearly as big an issue without that: it's that both happened, and that the lottery gift to SOMER was already absurdly out of line. The IWS issue exacerbated the lottery issue, it wasn't the main problem.


I can probably shed a bit of light on that although Navigator touched on that in his announcement following what was going to be the Gold Magnate event.

Why SOMER? Well, they are really popular and they have supported a ton of events so we wanted to explore what we could do with them. Their influence in the community is significant for the same reason that they are space rich - because they're good at what they do.

In the statement we go into who else have gotten the ISWs and also what sort of giveways we usually extend to fansites.

As we said, we agree with you that we went too fast and that's why we need to re-think this whole thing. We need to keep the CSM more involved, their input is invaluable.



1. Somer did not support any events the eve community and it players did by playing a out of game gambling lottery.

2. They used the profits the took as the house to gain your favor and then gain legitimacy as a trusted CCP site to further there ability to make more isk.

3. So is Somer Blink a CCP owned Fansite? If not they are in the sandbox and are now 100% CCP approved and that my friend is more valuable then any ship or ingame item. Every player of this game will see somer and in turn see CCP. I guess all we need now is a eve player who started playing eve to kick his gambling habit to start playing somer and commit suicide over losing all his isk and then blaming CCP. Then we will see how much support CCP wants to give somer.

4. Running a penny lottery is not hard CCP so why don't you run it yourself?

On and On
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#165 - 2013-10-10 21:15:09 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
let’s go through what happened, why it happened, what else has happened, and then let’s have a discussion on what all of us want to happen in the future


First, what is the Ishukone Watch Scorpion?

The IWS was originally created as a vanity item to be sold in the NeX store for Aurum, but once that plan was cancelled,
the Community Team secured it as a promotional item to be given out for various efforts or events.

Your first mistake: the "vanity item" was considered controversial because of the whole "greed is good" debacle.
And you kept it so you can give it away for free, without players having to gain it through actual eve gameplay.


How many exist and who have you given them to?

Your second mistake, giving these "particular ships" out as rewards for services rendered is a relatively new initiative and we intended to gift them to more fansites and contributors.
These "particular ships" are part of the eve ingame lore, and should not just "magically" appear out of air, but has to be tied into the Ishukone corporation.

Why hasn’t my favorite fansite or community enterprise received something nice too?
If I don't care about the circle jerk ingame, I really don't care about who is buddy buddy oog concerning eve.
Let the past affiliations to player alliances and subsequent conspiracy theories run loose imho, that's what the metagame is about.

How do these recent events compare with previous ones?
We’ve always seen value in providing reasonable prizes to boost interest in events run by enthusiastic and capable players.
There’s value in it for us as a company and for you as a community.
Keep up the good work everyone, the community and the company CCP has to build a future for it's players.

Lastely: The IWS is a cool thing to have and that’s why we use it as a reward, not because it carries X ISK value.
I don't think CCP understand it's players concerns and should read the DNSBlack open letter to CCPgames and the csm-8:

"This is about receiving assets solely and directly from CCP itself vs earning them in game like everyone else. CCP can reward whoever they want to, how ever they want to, outside of game. as long as I don’t have to compete with the creators or benefactors of these sites at a disadvantage in game due to them having been given that advantage by CCP"

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Kate stark
#166 - 2013-10-10 21:15:09 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I did and it doesn't address what I said at all. PLEX = $20. I'm a web designer in RL. So if I do a site for company X and charge them 5 grand, I could get 250 PLEX. I could do that right now. If CCP had me do a site I would charge them real life money for my real life work. I don't care about EvE at this point I care about getting paid for my work. They pay me 5 grand and I buy 250 PLEX. The only difference between these scenarios is who my RL client was... and what does that matter? Answer that.

There is one difference. EvE players who build sites for the community do it because it's fun. Thus, they will work for peanuts. It's good business to pay eve players to develop their labors of love, and encourage more of it. It's a frickin' bargain.


yeah, my post covered that.
since you have no intention of reading, i have no intention of further encouraging you to derail the thread.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Wollari
Dirt Nap Squad
#167 - 2013-10-10 21:15:28 UTC
I'll stay out of the main fight here: I'm just leaving a quick note:

I prefer out-of-game items/merchandise/shirts compared to ingame items. I'm still using my eve cup from fanfest 2009 and still wearing proudly the fanfest shirts every attendee received or fleece jacket i bought. I mostly don't care about ingame items cause most of the time real-life, DOTLAN or chatting with (eve)friends is keeping me out-of-the-game.

That said I'm not totally against ingame rewards: I really like the ideas players brought up earlier to name stations/planets/landmarks/items etc. after community entities to show their respect. Giving out gametime (as free account(s) or gametime codes) is okay as well, I just have a bad feeling when player gifts are being abused to get an ingame advantage.

btw for the record: I just ordered/bought the collectors edition in the single hope that the developer/fansite community (and hopefully my fansite) is mentioned in the “Into the Second Decade" History Book. And tbh. It would be very disappointing if CCP would have left out the community that helped growing and supporting the player base. We'll see.

DOTLAN EveMaps | Your out-of-game map, navigation toolset, sov database, etc. since 2008

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#168 - 2013-10-10 21:17:49 UTC
I think it would be in everyone's best interest if CCP simply never again gave out freebies of any type whatsoever to anyone, for any reason at all. In game, out of game, no matter.
Kosakei Sanko
Interstellar Vacancy
#169 - 2013-10-10 21:23:26 UTC
Throwing money at EVE and EVE-related events hardly qualifies as enriching the average player's EVE experience. If simply giving tons of money to the sandbox is the only qualifier, then every subscriber deserves some recognition and the long term subscribers something truly remarkable.

Before those less adept at critical thinking get a hold of this, let me state that I am not at all advocating this. The struggle is what sets this game apart from others, and there are certain groups that have actually contributed to the game by teaching, helping, and otherwise making it easier for people to enjoy this game. Those are the ones that deserve recognition in this form.

The remarkable thing about SOMER is that they've managed to find a way to take people's virtual currency even when they're not playing the game, but that shouldn't be rewarded, especially this impartially, because they're STILL PLAYERS.

Just to reiterate: not in favor of free stuff for everybody.

Gimme a unique T2 Khanid battleship called the Castigator and I'd be willing to forget all this happened.

Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#170 - 2013-10-10 21:24:38 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I did and it doesn't address what I said at all. PLEX = $20. I'm a web designer in RL. So if I do a site for company X and charge them 5 grand, I could get 250 PLEX. I could do that right now. If CCP had me do a site I would charge them real life money for my real life work. I don't care about EvE at this point I care about getting paid for my work. They pay me 5 grand and I buy 250 PLEX. The only difference between these scenarios is who my RL client was... and what does that matter? Answer that.

There is one difference. EvE players who build sites for the community do it because it's fun. Thus, they will work for peanuts. It's good business to pay eve players to develop their labors of love, and encourage more of it. It's a frickin' bargain.


yeah, my post covered that.
since you have no intention of reading, i have no intention of further encouraging you to derail the thread.

All you did was copy and paste "PLEX doesn't work like that" over and over in so many words. I think you just don't have an argument or are trolling.

Rob Crowley wrote:
I agree with you to some point. I would say it is a matter of quantity though. If CCP decided to hand just enough cash to a non-profit 3rd party community person to help with hosting costs or such I could live with that.

If CCP were "contracting" a community dev as you call it, then they are IMO business partners and I would expect that the community dev would have to follow rigid rules regarding his in-game activities similar to a CCP dev. Basically a business partner of CCP can't be a regular player anymore cause that would indeed hurt the sandbox.


"that the community dev would have to follow rigid rules regarding his in-game activities similar to a CCP dev..." so don't give out T2 BPOs or show favoritism? A 3rd party developer wouldn't have the capability to do those things. Those dev rules are in place because devs have placement and access above and beyond any player. It doesn't have anything to do with what I'm saying. Every penny CCP pays any 3rd party could theoretically be used to buy PLEX. As long as there is PLEX, this will always be the case. ...and it's fine.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#171 - 2013-10-10 21:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Crowley
Gogela wrote:
Rob Crowley wrote:
that the community dev would have to follow rigid rules regarding his in-game activities similar to a CCP dev...
so don't give out T2 BPOs or show favoritism? A 3rd party developer wouldn't have the capability to do those things. Those dev rules are in place because devs have placement and access above and beyond any player.
While I don't know any details I would very much hope and assume that the code of conduct for CCP employees regarding in-game activities is much broader than just devhax. I would assume that they are not allowed to do anything of major significance like e.g. FCing for Goons or funding PL supercaps or building the next Blink-like thingy. I would also guess that they might get discouraged from engaging in the shadier activities of Eve like scamming, AWOXing or stuff like that.
Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
#172 - 2013-10-10 21:36:05 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Thanks for the statement. However, it doesn't particularly address the glaring fact that SOMER received free trips to Fanfest and unique ships for a "fair" contest "for the community" that CCP has no control over or audit power for. Further, the contest is inherently biased toward people who blow billions of isk playing blinks, giving them a disproportionate amount of entries for unique ships only obtainable through this medium (not to mention making SOMER even more isk), as well as giving a player-run, for-profit corporation the ability to decide who can even have a chance at winning it, considering SOMER Blink solely and unilaterally has the power to ban accounts at will.

The fact that you guys earlier compared SOMER Blink to a charity is shocking, off-putting and shows a deep disconnection between what CCP believes "a community service" is and what the players do. Many players believe that "a community service" is something that actually enriches the game or provides content to it. SOMER Blink is a third party website created solely to print isk for its founder. They provide no services in game. At all. (This doesn't even to speak to the fact that serious concerns exist for many players to the legitimacy of the SOMER Blink lottery system. For example, how is it that the player with the most blinks won, Replacement 234, doesn't appear in the most blinks played? Is Replacement 234, with an win rate at a minimum of 32.7%+ simply luckier than the next-highest winner, Featious who has a 28.8% win rate? Or the highest winner (with over 9 TRILLION isk more than Replacement 234) doesn't even appear to have played or won the most blinks?)

The difference in your example of "go to game trade show, get swag" and the SOMERgate fiasco is that as players we can choose to attend game trade show--at our wills--and get swag. We don't, however, have the luxury of playing blinks if the account is banned. Further, you're not limiting the prize pool to players attending EVE Vegas, as your trade show example would indicate. It is open to anyone willing to blow billions of isk on blinks. Even then, they would still have an inequitable chance of winning against other players who have a disproportionate amount of tickets. Your basic example of simply playing a promo blink and having an entry is pedantic at best and deceitful at worst, considering that everyone knows that blink players will have hundreds or thousands of tickets entered.

It's good that you've put future plans on hold for hopefully a better process. It's unfortunate, though, that you decided to stop recognizing community sites short of providing rewards to meaningful providers of content in the game, instead opting to enrich a for-profit corp's wallet instead. The fact that you haven't pulled the unique rewards, given the glaring deficiencies in using SOMER Blink as the provider of the contest, shows me that CCP has only a passing concern to the legitimate grievances we players have. CCP owes nothing to SOMER Blink, and if this were believed by CCP, it would have pulled the unique and fantastical prizes in favor of something more traditional like PLEX packs or Collector's Editions.



Why is this getting ignored?
Morphisat
Millard Innovation Inc
The 20 Minuters
#173 - 2013-10-10 21:38:35 UTC
Weird, first the index indicated 14 pages and now it's down to 9 Shocked. Magic ! Lol
sally Deninard
mss industry
#174 - 2013-10-10 21:44:52 UTC
I really still am no clearer on this matter at all.
The problem of the scorpions is that the award could be classed as "over the top and plain odd " as compared to other in game organisations.
Eve uni for example does good things.... but you don`t give EVERY SINGLE eve uni member a free ship.

As for the lottery, much the same. You effectively custom skinned a ship for SOMER, it`s just over the top and makes it smell of corruption.
The fanfest prizes too, each trip could fund Eve radio(which relies on paying subscribers to survive) for months. It just seems odd?

This is my most major question.
Some players could not compete on the somer site due to somers own 3rd party toc`s and banning. The CSM told you this and you ignored them indirectly shutting out the opportunity to win these prizes.
Why did you ignore the csm on this matter and what are you going to do for the players that could not compete on the somer site?

to quote from the csm thread
"However, the requirement that one must be a member of SOMER Blink in order to participate remains, and for a lottery with such significant prizes, is very troubling to us. Furthermore, the structure of the lottery, which encourages and rewards extensive use of SOMER Blink, may raise legal concerns in some jurisdictions. For example, in the United States, commercial lotteries cannot require the purchase of a product or service in order to receive an entry.

For this reason, we strongly suggest that the entry mechanic be adjusted as follows:

1) Members of SOMER Blink are automatically entered into the lottery and receive one ticket, regardless of how much they use the site.

2) An alternate method (such as posting in a particular thread) be used to allow people to enter who do not wish to become a member of SOMER Blink."
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#175 - 2013-10-10 21:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Rob Crowley wrote:
While I don't know any details I would very much hope and assume that the code of conduct for CCP employees regarding in-game activities is much broader than just devhax. I would assume that they are not allowed to do anything of major significance like e.g. FCing for Goons or funding PL supercaps or building the next Blink-like thingy. I would also guess that they might get discouraged from engaging in the shadier activities of Eve like scamming, AWOXing or stuff like that.

I hate to dash your hopes but that is not the case. As long as they aren't spawning stuff out of thin air (devhax) even devs are encouraged to participate in the community. There's a long list of rules that go with it... for instance if someone with a player account is outted as a dev by a player, I think the dev has to stop playing that account. I don't know them all... but no we play alongside everyone. For all you know you've flown with CCP Greyscale himself on several occasions. Big smile

Buzz Madullier wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
WALL OF TEXT

Why is this getting ignored?


...something about pineapple pizza, i think.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#176 - 2013-10-10 21:47:11 UTC
Tinman Spectacular wrote:
Some people have already mentioned this idea, and it's been done before. Immortalize individuals and corporations with permanent relics and monuments in-game as reward for their community contributions. You like what Somer is doing, why not a "Somer Gambling Hall" off Dodixie Fed Navy? You want to give credit to their members, let people warp to it and buy junk items like "1 blink credit - issued by [somer employee]." Like someone said, it's no different than "piece of steve," etc.

Even better, let them name their junk item with your final approval. CCP gets an ISK sink. Somer employees get a very VERY special in-game achievement, and players get something to do other than buy a passport from Poitat. This would be an achievement most of us will never accomplish because of what they've done for the community, respect or hate it, their name will be remembered even after they unsub and nobody gets a tangible ISK advantage over anyone either directly or indirectly. I get that a couple billion ISK to outfits like Somer is just a rounding error, but it's still an in-game advantage. I also get ships and junk have been given before, so what? Things change in this game.

-RvB gets some magical kill number in their eternal war, how about a flaming statue named after the pilot who died or something?
-Some event attracts 10k people in local with super duper reinforced nodes, maybe they'll get a station named after them in that system?
-How about an item for sale at SOE stations called "A Map of Eve - by Dotlan"?

It's not that hard.

Nobody will have a problem with this. The player is immortalized and the community gets FREE content; free as in I'm not paying $14/mo for in-game corps to get marketable items which benefit them in some tangible, non-existential manner, that may or may not be used against me.

For comparison, for most players their corporate titles and medals are more meaningful and treasured than ISK gifts and their equivalencies (rare items and such). Usually you get them for spectacular in-game feats, or spectacular in-game failures. It's hard to say which kind is more regarded by the individual they were conferred upon Smile


Definitely one route we can take! And it's a cool one. Doesn't have to be the only one though. Also since we discussed "soulbound" items (heh I said this word on the EVE forums), medals for example are essentially that by default. Again...not the only thing we should look at. We should look at a lot of different things.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#177 - 2013-10-10 21:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Gogela wrote:
Rob Crowley wrote:
While I don't know any details I would very much hope and assume that the code of conduct for CCP employees regarding in-game activities is much broader than just devhax. I would assume that they are not allowed to do anything of major significance like e.g. FCing for Goons or funding PL supercaps or building the next Blink-like thingy. I would also guess that they might get discouraged from engaging in the shadier activities of Eve like scamming, AWOXing or stuff like that.

I hate to dash your hopes but that is not the case. As long as they aren't spawning stuff out of thin air (devhax) even devs are encouraged to participate in the community. There's a long list of rules that go with it... for instance if someone with a player account is outted as a dev by a player, I think the dev has to stop playing that account. I don't know them all... but no we play alongside everyone. For all you know you've flown with CCP Greyscale himself on several occasions. Big smile

Buzz Madullier wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
WALL OF TEXT

Why is this getting ignored?


...something about pineapple pizza, i think.



I believe it's been said they're not supposed to gank people. (At which point some players complained.)



And I suspect also, something about it being almost 10pm in Iceland.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#178 - 2013-10-10 21:51:27 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
A Research Alt wrote:
This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used.


The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well.

We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.



"the time was right to do stuff with them" is extremely vague. What criteria was used in this case exactly?

What was SB's "great contribution" to EVE exactly?

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Buzz Madullier
The Essence of Nike
#179 - 2013-10-10 21:57:31 UTC
Gogela wrote:


...something about pineapple pizza, i think.


Are you a magician? I just put a Hawaiian Pizza in the oven. :O
G Nesh
GN HOLDING
#180 - 2013-10-10 21:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: G Nesh
First I'd like to say: This issue should be taken away from the forums and left strictly to the CSM to work out. This thread constitutes an end-around of the elected officials. The reason I'm saying this is I feel like the silent majority isn't being represented here, and that the squeaky wheel is getting the grease. This certainly is a tear harvest - content creations successful!

CCP Guard wrote:
That’s it for now, let us know your thoughts.

See above comment. This would be like the mayor of my town asking all citizens to call him about an economic development deal. Do you know many leaders who would actually do that? Very few are that crazy.

CCP Guard wrote:
Should we stick to out-of-game things only?

No, screw that. Somer Blink, TMC, eveonion, etc... has kept my interest beyond the massacre of my noobships by assholes with actual skill in better ships. They are well-run organizations that provide services to me and many of my comrades. (just kidding, I have no friends) The fewer people innovating and providing extra, sometimes out-of-game content, the fewer casual Calvins like me will be in-game to act as loot pinatas.

CCP Guard wrote:
Create non-transferrable in-game items as rewards?

I did not know they existed. As long as hordes of brave young pilots such as myself can blow them up, whatever floats your boat. However, this cannot be the way to cop out of truly rewarding innovation. I could see this turning into the "turkey for a christmas bonus" to all of these people who go above and beyond. (Look, honey! We can buy a space-pool after I apply the tramp stamp tattoo that ccp gave me for my awesome widget!)

CCP Guard wrote:
Give no personal rewards and only prizes?

Prizes in the context of junk with no combat advantage that I can win from these great organizations? It is still worth isk? Heck yeah to prizes. Heck no to the sentiment!

CCP Guard wrote:
Only items below a certain expected ISK value?

NO! GIVE UNTIL IT HURTS! Giveaways to people/groups who spend an extraordinary amount of time and their own money to make my game experience more enjoyable are good. 95% of the population of tranquility will never spend the isk on a fancy gimped ship, ridiculous eyepatch (yarr) or any other collector's item anyway, but a very large portion of them WILL use the services of the rewarded entities.

Offering in-game incentives to community builders = economic development. Plus you get all these delicious tears to boot!

Caving in to the pilots who, for the most part, suddenly exhibit "moral" opposition to supporting a popular player-run organization because it's a gambling site validates their own personal reasons for whining. Don't be an enabler...