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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

First post First post First post
Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#221 - 2013-10-11 00:07:24 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
Jealous people killing a reward that CCP gives out to people who support the community. As far as the first somer lottery was concerned this was a mistake and CCP actually fixed it.

Also thanks Guard!


Note that we haven't said that the ISW will never be given out again in any sort of giveaway. Just that we're pausing rewards of this nature until we are sure they make sense or have a framework ensuring they make sense :)


What tingled my senses is that SOMER have been depicted as some charity.

I happen to manage the only surviving EvE <==> RL charity since years, and never got proposed a Rifter for it.

And I don't want a Rifter, I just don't want a casino being accosted to a charity.
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#222 - 2013-10-11 00:08:46 UTC
sally Deninard wrote:
I really still am no clearer on this matter at all.
The problem of the scorpions is that the award could be classed as "over the top and plain odd " as compared to other in game organisations.
Eve uni for example does good things.... but you don`t give EVERY SINGLE eve uni member a free ship.

As for the lottery, much the same. You effectively custom skinned a ship for SOMER, it`s just over the top and makes it smell of corruption.
The fanfest prizes too, each trip could fund Eve radio(which relies on paying subscribers to survive) for months. It just seems odd?

This is my most major question.
Some players could not compete on the somer site due to somers own 3rd party toc`s and banning. The CSM told you this and you ignored them indirectly shutting out the opportunity to win these prizes.
Why did you ignore the csm on this matter and what are you going to do for the players that could not compete on the somer site?

to quote from the csm thread
"However, the requirement that one must be a member of SOMER Blink in order to participate remains, and for a lottery with such significant prizes, is very troubling to us. Furthermore, the structure of the lottery, which encourages and rewards extensive use of SOMER Blink, may raise legal concerns in some jurisdictions. For example, in the United States, commercial lotteries cannot require the purchase of a product or service in order to receive an entry.

For this reason, we strongly suggest that the entry mechanic be adjusted as follows:

1) Members of SOMER Blink are automatically entered into the lottery and receive one ticket, regardless of how much they use the site.

2) An alternate method (such as posting in a particular thread) be used to allow people to enter who do not wish to become a member of SOMER Blink."



Especially in light of the whole issue with player participation the in-game RP channels, this definitely requires some attention. This appears to be a direct contradiction of previously stated policy, yet there has been no official explanation for the discrepancy. To the contrary, it has been widely avoided and ignored.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2013-10-11 00:33:06 UTC
For those of you wondering,

We ARE reading this threa (as well as the others) but the purpose of this is to get your feedback.

If you want to be represented don't you think it is best that we do that rather than just going off to do what 'we think is best for you'?

I am talking to a lot of players in channels and you are welcome to evemail me with your opinion but please, boil it down, dial back the rhetoric and get to the point.

What would YOU like to see, going forward?

Awards or not

in game out of game, what sort?

how are they chosen?

how is it kept transparent

I am here to listen

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#224 - 2013-10-11 00:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Happy that this debacle is unlikely to be repeated.

I have no issue with open, transparent gifting of items that do not have a non-trivial lasting effect on the game's PVP aspects (the market of course being a PVP aspect). I'm willing to tolerate open, transparent gifting of things like Alliance Tournament ships - despite the (secondary market value) 3+ trillion ISK prize for winning an AT being economy warping, the AT offers enough to the game for it to be worthwhile.

This incident was not open, not transparent, and provided a non-trivial effect on the market (the effective transfer of ISK from those that had previously purchased IWS's as a collectible to SOMER). Due to SOMER directors having links to CCP staff it also reeked of collusion.

As a suggestion, in future whenever gifting enough rare items that you'll increase the number in circulation by more than 1-2%, please provide the community 7 days notice of your provisional decision to do so and why the recipients deserve it. Following that would have prevented this debacle.

Also, untradeable vanity items would be excellent awards to use in future. No economic impact, no ship PVP impact.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Kern Hotha
#225 - 2013-10-11 00:41:07 UTC
The original post still doesn't address the problem: gambling isn't a beneficial service that enriches the "community", and Somer/BIG/EOH don't deserve any CCP favoritism or collusion.

I'd prefer future official rewards be constrained by two simple rules:
1. Recognition will be granted only to a person or group whose activities actually benefit the game.
2. The reward will have no isk value but be of superlative status; e.g. a commemorative statue.

We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.

Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)

CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#226 - 2013-10-11 00:51:24 UTC
Kirren D'marr wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.


You are still being very vague about what exactly SOMER Blink did to deserve such rewards. Please give a detailed description of what exaclty makes them so deserving.

Note:
- Being "good at what they do" is not a valid reason; what they "do" is make ISK. If you are going to reward them for this, then you must reward every other player organization who earns above a set level of ISK.
- Sponsoring events is also not a valid reason; like any other business, the reward for sponsorship is greater public visibility potentially resulting in additional business. Receiving an advantage over other participants is not a legitimate reward for sponsorship.

It's perfectly clear though that you were not "recognizing" SOMER for anything; by defintion, "recognition" requires some level of public awareness, and whether by intent or neglect, this was all kept under wraps. This has the result of looking a lot like market manipulation in order to favor one particular group of players.

CCP Guard wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
You make it sound like as if creating and maintaining a well know eve online fansite + infrastructure and handling with employees is effortless.


This is a good point actually. While we totally understand that everyone has different opinions on different projects, there's no denying that it's not an everyday task to build something that a lot of our players like and use regularly. That goes for a lot of our fansites and other contributors. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer number of high level stuff we see coming from our community members.


Let's be perfectly clear on one thing: SOMER Blink is NOT a fansite! It is a for-profit business which supports an in-game player organization's activities. Please stop lumping them in with true fansites that actually benefit the community instead of taking from it.

CCP Guard wrote:
Cameron Freerunner wrote:

4. A Dev endorsed a player run lottery and specified that it was totally legitimate. CCP endorsements of player run businesses must never be allowed to happen. Ever. By endorsing one group over another, he has potentially crippled all of the competitors. Who would risk their ISK with anyone else?


Interesting angle actually. Because even when we design a more transparent system around this, it's not ever going to make everyone completely content all the time. But we'll always try to be as fair as we can.


I find it highly disturbing that you consider this an "interesting angle," rather than this being something that was carefully considered before deciding to benefit a single for-profit business to the detriment of their competitors by driving traffic to their site and away from others. This should have been an obvious consequence of the lottery giveaway, yet your response seems to indicate that the thought never occured to you. To top it off, a certain CCP representative's remarks endorsing one particular site (effectively over others) just threw more fuel on the fire, and reeks of a lack of forethought on the effects of your actions as a company on the fairness of the game.

When all of this started, I held off on making any decisions with regards to the continuation of my account until after CCP had a reasonable opportunity to fix the situation. So far, I see no solutions, only PR spin. I'll give it a little more time as my account is not up right away, but if nothing changes soon I will be unsubscribing.


You are misquoting me. My reply wasn't to that post as can be seen here.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#227 - 2013-10-11 00:55:09 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
*snip*
What would YOU like to see, going forward?

Awards or not

in game out of game, what sort?

how are they chosen?

how is it kept transparent
*snip*

I liked the idea of in game monuments someone put forth. Non-transferable assets? Also an awesome idea and solves all problems in my view. Just pay them in PLEX? Sure, that works for me too. T-Shirts and shwag? Awesome!

How they are chosen: I don't know. I would say in several ways. If a CCP dev sees a cool fan site they are impressed with, sure. If the marketing department sees the tramendous value SOMER, EvE Poker, BIG Games, Entity, Chribba, cerberus, and the like provide... go for it. Hell if the CSM sees something they think is of value to the community it's totally cool with me. I don't know "how" they should be chosen... but I wouldn't restrict it too much. I'd open it up even more.

...and as a minor addendum, I would say this: Don't contract community sites. I am kicking around the idea of a new iteration of mine with another better known fan dev. We do it because we love the game. That's what makes sites awesome. There's no schedule... we just work when we can. ...but that gets you the best result because it's a labor of love and very personal. We do it our way on our time. That's what makes the best community sites. My hat is off to Entity and SOMER for all they do. I guarantee you they don't do it because they think CCP is going to give them some stuff. They do it for themselves, first and foremost. That's the motivation you want. The fact that we have so many awesome community sites is a testament to how awesome eve is and how loyal the fanbase is. Don't frack that up.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#228 - 2013-10-11 00:58:39 UTC
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
p.s. What was weird about the Community Spotlight? :P

It's good he brought up the spotlight. The Community Spotlight also has no known rules or criteria. Each one amounts to an advertisement and that's the specific reason that I (as my alt Zaxix) poked CCP about Red Frog. By getting an RF spotlight, I accomplished a long held goal to get Red Frog's name on the login page. Frankly they don't need the advertising at this stage of the game, but for anyone not already familiar with EVE's courier services, it got the Frog some serious mind share and was a de facto CCP plug for the Frog.


There's a lot of good projects and site we have yet to cover in the Community Spotlights and we can't do everyone at once.

What we've tried to do is focus on established things over brand new ones, but we've made exceptions in special cases for example when the Brave Newbies rose fast and hard because it was just such a good story. Timing is important (again) so if there's an upcoming event by someone we have on the back burner we may pull them up a few slots. Also we try to have diversity, not write about similar things week after week etc. But the selection method isn't highly developed or scientific and for something like this I don't think it can be, or that it has to be.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
#229 - 2013-10-11 01:02:23 UTC
Is there no plan to repair the damage already done by giving a player corp trillions of isk worth of 'stuff'? Was that plan OK'd by multiple members of CCP management or was that idea dreamed up and pushed through by an isolated group?

A lot of players really feel cheated by this whole fiasco - not in the manner that we feel we are owed something(or even want anything -I sure as hell don't). We just want the illusion of fairness restored - I mean, what is the point of playing monopoly with your friends if the bank straight up gives the third player on your left 200 bones 'because that player was cool'.
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#230 - 2013-10-11 01:08:15 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:
Jealous people killing a reward that CCP gives out to people who support the community. As far as the first somer lottery was concerned this was a mistake and CCP actually fixed it.

Also thanks Guard!


Note that we haven't said that the ISW will never be given out again in any sort of giveaway. Just that we're pausing rewards of this nature until we are sure they make sense or have a framework ensuring they make sense :)


What tingled my senses is that SOMER have been depicted as some charity.

I happen to manage the only surviving EvE <==> RL charity since years, and never got proposed a Rifter for it.

And I don't want a Rifter, I just don't want a casino being accosted to a charity.


I have to correct that we haven't said that SOMER Blink is a charity :). Just that they sponsor events.

Just to let you know, if you have a charity event in mind and if you are interested, you can always contact the community team and we can look at options to support it in some way. I know it's not the point of your post but I'm just putting it out there :)

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#231 - 2013-10-11 01:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirren D'marr
CCP Guard wrote:


You are misquoting me. My reply wasn't to that post as can be seen here.


There was a limit on quotes allowed in the post, and I did my best to distill it down while maintaining the essence. If I misunderstood, please take the opportunity to explain rather than dismissing it outright.

For that matter, there were several valid and salient points in that post, and you seem to casually ignore all of them. Care to try again?

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_

Kuni Oichi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2013-10-11 01:10:30 UTC
With regard to the free Ishukone Scorpions given as freebies to the Somer blink staff:

1) What contributions to Eve were CCP recognising?

The bulk of staff at Somer blink, as I understand it, process deposits, hand out winnings, freighter ships/items and deal with customer service issues. For this they receive a plex per month and 90+ mil an hour (freighter pilots being paid per jump) for their 'work' for the company. What did CCP feel the need to further reward them for doing what they are there to do for their corporation.

2) If (speculating) that contribution to the community is in the sponsorship of events, why did CCP not give that recognition and reward to the people running the events, rather than those funding them via their own marketing?


With regard to the unprecedented largesse given for the Somer blink lottery

1) Was CCP aware of how Somer blink would run the lottery for the prizes they were given? Namely that instead of 1 ticket per person, customers/gamblers were heavily incentivised to put more and more money into somer blink to increase their chance of winning?

2) Was any consideration given that doing this would act as a huge promotion for Somer blink, increasing their short and long-term revenue. If not then what is CCP's thought on the enrichment of a corporation via freebies now? If it was, then why was this done?

3) Was any consideration given to the fact people would have to sign up to Somer Blink's services and participate in gambling? There are individuals who have rl gambling addiction (in fact the likelihood is that there are people in eve with gambling addiction because of somer blink) or religious probibitions against gambling.


With regard to this statement 'The IWS is a cool thing to have and that’s why we use it as a reward, not because it carries X ISK value. The price people negotiate is wholly decided between individuals and is hard for us to predict with any precision. '

1) The price of most things in the game is easily checked via assorted means, why was this not a consideration and, moreover, why was there no consideration over the economic effects of keeping the 'gifts' secret?


CCP made exceptionally bold claims about Somer, assuring their reliability, that they'd never scammed etc. They were given unprecedented largesse not once, but twice - once in public, once without disclosure. Fundamentally then we have the same corporation being given special treatment by CCP on two occasions.


Going forwards

What would YOU like to see, going forward?


Awards
Personally I think the community spotlight should be enough for most things. Likewise I'm not personally convinced someone needs to get a plex each month for running a blog on the game, but then that's a cheap marketing extra for CCP.

in game out of game, what sort?

Out of game for preference. Recognition is its own reward (the community spotlight) but t-shirts, rifter USBs etc. work as well. If not out of game then without economic or political value. Special pods that are a different colour, things that have no possible trade value, and they're lost if that character is sold.

how are they chosen?

There's no such thing as a fair metric for community recognition, because one person's excellent event is another person's 'meh' however it should be kept broad, the same company/individual shouldn't be getting rewarded twice in a short period of time as Somer was and it should take in the different facets of the game. EveMon/EveFit are indispensible tools, likewise Dotlan and Garpa. The Angel Project apparently does something to help new players (Though I doubt it's as good as Goon support for our newbies, but that's not exactly typical), someone whose name escapes me fought rifters in their nyx as part of the 10 year celebration etc. Those are all things that support the community and add value. Ohh and Goons got Eve on the BBC, so obviously we should be top of the list!

how is it kept transparent

You publish your guidelines on how people are chosen, you publish who is getting what (Why wouldn't you want people to know who CCP thinks deserves recognition, I'm frankly baffled it has been kept secret until now).
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#233 - 2013-10-11 01:11:03 UTC
" We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.

You are still being very vague about what exactly SOMER Blink did to deserve such rewards. Please give a detailed description of what exaclty makes them so deserving.

Note:
- Being "good at what they do" is not a valid reason; what they "do" is make ISK. If you are going to reward them for this, then you must reward every other player organization who earns above a set level of ISK.
- Sponsoring events is also not a valid reason; like any other business, the reward for sponsorship is greater public visibility potentially resulting in additional business. Receiving an advantage over other participants is not a legitimate reward for sponsorship.

It's perfectly clear though that you were not "recognizing" SOMER for anything; by defintion, "recognition" requires some level of public awareness, and whether by intent or neglect, this was all kept under wraps. This has the result of looking a lot like market manipulation in order to favor one particular group of players.

You make it sound like as if creating and maintaining a well know eve online fansite + infrastructure and handling with employees is effortless.

This is a good point actually. While we totally understand that everyone has different opinions on different projects, there's no denying that it's not an everyday task to build something that a lot of our players like and use regularly. That goes for a lot of our fansites and other contributors. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer number of high level stuff we see coming from our community members.


Let's be perfectly clear on one thing: SOMER Blink is NOT a fansite! It is a for-profit business which supports an in-game player organization's activities. Please stop lumping them in with true fansites that actually benefit the community instead of taking from it.


4. A Dev endorsed a player run lottery and specified that it was totally legitimate. CCP endorsements of player run businesses must never be allowed to happen. Ever. By endorsing one group over another, he has potentially crippled all of the competitors. Who would risk their ISK with anyone else?

Interesting angle actually. Because even when we design a more transparent system around this, it's not ever going to make everyone completely content all the time. But we'll always try to be as fair as we can.[/quote]

I find it highly disturbing that you consider this an "interesting angle," rather than this being something that was carefully considered before deciding to benefit a single for-profit business to the detriment of their competitors by driving traffic to their site and away from others. This should have been an obvious consequence of the lottery giveaway, yet your response seems to indicate that the thought never occured to you. To top it off, a certain CCP representative's remarks endorsing one particular site (effectively over others) just threw more fuel on the fire, and reeks of a lack of forethought on the effects of your actions as a company on the fairness of the game.

When all of this started, I held off on making any decisions with regards to the continuation of my account until after CCP had a reasonable opportunity to fix the situation. So far, I see no solutions, only PR spin. I'll give it a little more time as my account is not up right away, but if nothing changes soon I will be unsubscribing. "

The above is from another post I agree with 100 % but cant quoate . It wont let me quote so much stuff. So by your thought process Guard goons who collect isk in game and do it very well will be given 400 bil in stuff and trips to Iceland to auction. The sad part is the goons do it in game and I can at least shoot them while they are doing it. The more you try to defend your action the more it makes me sad. the other part is I cant type for shot and would love to have this discussion on Skype with you or eve radio.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#234 - 2013-10-11 01:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
CCP Guard wrote:
A Research Alt wrote:
This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used.


The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well.

We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.



"the time was right to do stuff with them" is extremely vague. What criteria was used in this case exactly?

What was SB's great "contribution" to EVE exactly, as referenced in the OP that qualified them for rewards ?

Do you truly consider SB to be a "fansite".

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#235 - 2013-10-11 01:13:23 UTC
StabThigh wrote:
Is there no plan to repair the damage already done by giving a player corp trillions of isk worth of 'stuff'? Was that plan OK'd by multiple members of CCP management or was that idea dreamed up and pushed through by an isolated group?

A lot of players really feel cheated by this whole fiasco - not in the manner that we feel we are owed something(or even want anything -I sure as hell don't). We just want the illusion of fairness restored - I mean, what is the point of playing monopoly with your friends if the bank straight up gives the third player on your left 200 bones 'because that player was cool'.

I can almost guarantee SOMER is looking at this thread and scratching his head wondering if the player base can count. If somebody hacked his account and stole "just" 100 IWSs worth of ISK he probably wouldn't notice for a long time, if at all. That's how far outclassed our wallets are by him. It's a non-factor. He hit the ludicrous ISK mark a long time ago. If he even does it for the ISK anymore it's only to see how crazy "crazy" can get.

tl;dr; what damage?

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Jassmin Joy
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#236 - 2013-10-11 01:14:38 UTC
I'm not sure why you dont just make more of those in-game cards you did for the NEO, I can say as a player who's names on an item in game i consider it to worth alot more than any IWS, You might be giving them billions of isk in ship, But they don't have an item in game that has their name on it, and wont ever be going away, that to me is a huge reward.

So there you go, create more "community spotlight" cards, mix them in with the NEO and give them to players through in-game and perhaps out of game events, Anyone who doesn't think that having an item in game forever with your name engraved into it is a reward that is literally priceless, probably doesn't deserve the reward imo.
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#237 - 2013-10-11 01:24:54 UTC
Kirren D'marr wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:


You are misquoting me. My reply wasn't to that post as can be seen here.


There was a limit on quotes allowed in the post, and I did my best to distill it down while maintaining the essence. If I misunderstood, please take the opportunity to explain rather than dismissing it outright.

For that matter, there were several valid and salient points in that post, and you seem to casually ignore all of them. Care to try again?


Sure thing. Sorry if I came off as gruff.

You said you still weren't clear on what SOMER did to deserve our attention. I replied to a similar question in this post . If there's anything more you'd like to know about it I can try but I really don't know how much more I can add. It was a judgement call at the time.

I see you obviously don't agree with that call or with the fact that SOMER or any lottery site deserves any attention. Not everyone will agree on that subject naturally.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
#238 - 2013-10-11 01:25:32 UTC
Gogela wrote:

I can almost guarantee SOMER is looking at this thread and scratching his head wondering if the player base can count. If somebody hacked his account and stole "just" 100 IWSs worth of ISK he probably wouldn't notice for a long time, if at all. That's how far outclassed our wallets are by him. It's a non-factor. He hit the ludicrous ISK mark a long time ago. If he even does it for the ISK anymore it's only to see how crazy "crazy" can get.

tl;dr; what damage?


We're not looking at the value of isk related to Somer's assets, we're looking at the value of isk in relation to the reset of the playerbase, a good indicator of that value is in the value of plex. 1 plex represents a noticable 'chunk' of isk because the players have determined that that much isk is worth 1 month.

Now compare the amount of isk given to Somer to the value of that chunk.

That damage.
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#239 - 2013-10-11 01:32:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
StabThigh wrote:
Gogela wrote:

I can almost guarantee SOMER is looking at this thread and scratching his head wondering if the player base can count. If somebody hacked his account and stole "just" 100 IWSs worth of ISK he probably wouldn't notice for a long time, if at all. That's how far outclassed our wallets are by him. It's a non-factor. He hit the ludicrous ISK mark a long time ago. If he even does it for the ISK anymore it's only to see how crazy "crazy" can get.

tl;dr; what damage?


We're not looking at the value of isk related to Somer's assets, we're looking at the value of isk in relation to the reset of the playerbase, a good indicator of that value is in the value of plex. 1 plex represents a noticable 'chunk' of isk because the players have determined that that much isk is worth 1 month.

Now compare the amount of isk given to Somer to the value of that chunk.

That damage.

If you are talking about the total "damage" to the eve economy, you haven't bothered to see what the isk traded per day in game is. Those IWSs are a drop in the bucket... and when that drop fell it didn't even cause a ripple.

EDIT: Based on Q4 2010 QEN compounding quarterly I ballpark the ISK money supply in game not counting assets to be about 2,781.45 trillion isk... ish.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#240 - 2013-10-11 01:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
CCP Guard wrote:
Kirren D'marr wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:


You are misquoting me. My reply wasn't to that post as can be seen here.


There was a limit on quotes allowed in the post, and I did my best to distill it down while maintaining the essence. If I misunderstood, please take the opportunity to explain rather than dismissing it outright.

For that matter, there were several valid and salient points in that post, and you seem to casually ignore all of them. Care to try again?


Sure thing. Sorry if I came off as gruff.

You said you still weren't clear on what SOMER did to deserve our attention. I replied to a similar question in this post . If there's anything more you'd like to know about it I can try but I really don't know how much more I can add. It was a judgement call at the time.


This is what you said in that post:

CCP Guard wrote:
It had to do with timing, our impression of their overall track record and capability, their niche, and habit of sponsoring events...to name a few.


That is still vague and lacks specific details.

An "overall track record" of doing what exactly?

SB's capability of doing what exactly?

If by "niche", are you referring to their organization being a RL for-profit gambling operation, as opposed to say a fansite such as eve-files.com? If not, what niche are you referring to?

Does CCP consider SB to be a "fansite"?

You said those are a few, could you please disclose some more, any that relate directly to contributing to EVE players in their entirety?

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.