Ships & Modules

Wouldn't a change to rig mechanics help Gallente? Give the Hybrid burst aerator give higher bonus than the equivalent projectile and laser rigs?

IMO 2 things were over buffed. Pulse tracking and TE fall off bonus.

For now, I have no problem with the damage level of projectiles, even the alpha on arties, though in time that opinion might change. However, at this time, the issue is too clouded by the above over buffs.

Lasers are listed as medium to long range weapons, however with the current tracking on Pulse there is no meaningful concept of getting under their tracking, therefore they become short, medium and long range weapons.

Projectiles are short to medium weapons, however with the boost to TEs they are short medium and long range weapons.

Blasters are short range weapons, rails are long range weapons.Since those divides have not been blurred (and nor should they be), the obvious imbalance we see is created.

Now I agree that pulse needed a tracking boost as it was too easy to get under their tracking. I also agree that TEs needed to effect falloff as TDs were changed to effect fall off. But in both cases, I think it went too far and removed flavour from the weapons systems by making them omni useful.

Other things need looking at, some need buffing and some need rolling back - others (mentioning no active tanks) need reworking completely, but the above issue just need their buffs rolling back a little (doesn't need to be huge). The reason it can't be a buff everything else to the same level answer, is a. as the gallente have found recently a buff to other things is often a nerf to another and because arms races never end (boosting the damage to everything just results in calls for more HPs again and the cycle begins anew).

Comments:
- Optimal is a much stronger mechanic than falloff, so I would say that lasers get a similar benefit.
- Blasters are useless anyway and therefore not useful to bring into this conversation. The comment about the man with no arms is appropriate, but not very useful.
- I make heavy use of TEs on all turret based ships. TEs would be simply useless most of the time without the falloff bonus.

-Liang

Agreed, optimal is more valuable.

But no one is screaming about nerfing pulse lasers despite their very long optimals....

The optimal on ACs is shorter than blasters, under 2000 with 425s? Compared to 2300 with neutrons. While uninteresting you simply can't say damage in falloff is ineffective.

You just said yourself that blasters are useless, yet they have a LONGER optimal than ACs.....and I doubt you will hear many cries about under powered autocannons in fall off.

Comments:
- Actually, several people in this thread have stated their desire to nerf both projectiles and lasers. Or just projectiles (which would lead to lasers).
- I didn't say that all damage in falloff is ineffective, so please stop putting words in my mouth. I said that optimal + falloff is not as interesting as optimal and optimal + falloff/2. If you're at optimal + falloff your damage isn't anything to write home about.
- Again, blasters have deeper problems than can be solved by TEs. It is ******* useless to continue bringing them up. Either CCP will boost blasters to the levels of Lasers and Projectiles or they will continue to be useless. If you want to talk about the balance of TEs you should restrict yourself to functional weapons systems.



Yes, this was the right answer. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) that time has long since passed and it is no longer the right answer. CCP must now buff hybrids, which is the direction they're going. After that, they'll need to look at Cruise.

-Liang

And the functional difference between blasters and acs

Optimal..nope
Dps.....nope
Fitting.....already buffed on sisi

Oh wait.....they don't have any appriciable fall off thus no effictive range.

That is it.

And you goddamn sure said falloff was inferior ....which belied ACs effectiveness against pulse lasers at sane ranges

This thread is not surprising and NO! All that matters was the 'Tracking Enhancer' and Artillery changes. You can take away the ammunition boost (damage increase, damage selection). Things would remain the same with the 'Tracking Enhancer' changes alone, which I don't want changed = )

I was flying Minmatar threw out all the times when they were considered less than even Gallente (Late 2007 - early 2009). Most ships that were viable in fleets still are and the ones that got thrown into fleet pvp. Were the Hurricane for the most part, auto-cannon Tempest, but there was artillery-Tempest and Rupture I suppose.

The same losers that complained about Minmatar being useless and Amarr all powerfull are the same losers fanning this thread with nonsense. Minmatar Didn't suddenly become better than Amarr, Caldari and Gallente. They always were in solo and small gang pvp. But! The 'Tracking Enhancer' boost made Minmatar ships that were already viable in fleets even more so and added the Hurricane and Rupture to the mix. Btw, if the Hurricane didn't become Vagabond like. It would have been the worst tier 2 battle-cruiser in-game (instead of the Harbinger now). I had every intention of replacing it with a Ham/Drake until the changes, in my opinion, saved the Hurricane.

So NO! This whole thing started because pilots are not capable of flying there ships correctly and complained that EVE was not easy. That's why you're able to cross train. That is why not all ships or One Race is NOT excellent in all classes. Gallente rule t2 frigates and solo battleships. Amarr Own Fleet battleships and have one of the best logistic ships in game. MInmatar owns cruiser hulls, Destroyers and T1 frigates and have one of the best logistic ships in-game. Caldari have the best T3, one of the best battlecruisers (Drake) one of the best logistics basilisk and MOF0cking ECM.

All that said has not change since I've been in-game (bar Introduction of strategic cruisers). Same sh!t different day of the month. Gallente will never be considered good unless they do massive damage or are viable in fleets. What matters most is their viability in fleets for the majority of pilots in this game because that is how most pvp. Minmatar is now good in it all, with the addition of 3 ships to fleet pvp: Hurricane, Tempest, Rupture (i dunno about this one <3). Now my beloved race is used by the masses and it disgusts me...


-proxyyyy

its a consequence.

When I trained up Matar from Gallente and fit my frist Hurricane the first throught through me head was "Whoa that was easy"

No cap concerns, no fitting mods, no ridiculous ranges, overall they just work.

I planned on being a split Gal/Matar pilot before I knew anything about the game, what I didn't know was just how good Minmatar actually were.

I've never flown (indeed can't) fly a laser ship, but seeing AC's toned down a bit either range or raw damage wouldn't put them out of line for ALL of their other advantages.

I still want to see my native hybrids be useful, but they are taking baby steps with blasters ....while buffing the **** out of hail.

....and oddly I didn't see Void on the list of ammo being rebalnced...../sigh.

I started Matar and tried to go over to Gallente/ Caldari. I started to try to fit their ships and my initial thought was 'WTF?!?'

AWU IV?

Bush league, man, bush league.