Ships & Modules

not rly we use many tempests with nano and 1400mm arty fitted
rook/falcon only worth using in smaller gangs,they die too easily vs fleets , scorp has the range +tank for large fights

Depends on how you define "fleet" because past a certain point, the 1400mm Pest and Muninn should be falling off that list as well. And who uses Sabres for fleets? More expensive for capabilities you don't need for a fleet dictor.

And that should be a 10MN Tengu.

When the Deimos can approach vagabond speeds with the shortest range weapon system in the game I'll get excited about the hybrid buff.

I like. . .a bit extreme but like. I have always argued that Gallente should have the best agility (get up to speed fastest - MWD) and the minmatar should remain the fastest top-speed but not get up to speed as fast. And i was glad to see CCP agrees.

Overall Liang, I don't think ACs should be balanced to Lazers. I feel that ACs should do the least DPS that will not-quite match Pulse damage at AC optimal. But if the Minmatar ship decides to go with a high-damage load-out - it can choose to load missiles in its extra high points (trading neuts), and use its drones (mobility). The drones especially take away from the mobility of the ship - but - when taken as a whole package - will just do less damage then a pure pulse ship. In exchange - the minmatar ship can elect to do less damage by removing the missiles and not using the drones - but gain major battlefield mobility and options instead.

That is something Mini ships have not lost - they still remain highly versatile in fittings and options. Hybrids and Lasers are both one trick ponies and impose very server load-outs and tactical considerations on the ship/pilot. Eagle is the perfect example of this kind of focused design that symbolizes Amarr and Caldari ship design. So if anyone argues to bring the weapon systems in line also have to propose to completely change the other three races to give them that degree of malleability. If not, then Mini ships and their weapon systems have to be balanced back to being the lowest damaging, highest mobility, lowest tech, highest adaptation race. The jack of all trades class of ships has to trade firepower, tank, and strategic focus for combat options, maneuverability, and a wide range of weapon systems employed. If not, then it will remain imba because it keep all the advantages and loses non of its disadvantages - with the exception of mass battleship fleet fights.

Now, does anyone want to take this kind of ship out to a fleet? Well, if its a skirmish fleet, yes. Which is why gallente and minmatar are the two skirmish style races (and conveniently allied). But not in a 'conventional fleet' where Amarr and Caldari with their more focused ships would dominate. Amarr and Caldari scale up well, while Gallente and Minmatar will have an edge in dictating the small scale fight.

The desire to balance ACs to Pulse and Blasters ignores the core design of the ships and the advantages/disadvantages that those weapon systems have. But lasers are supposed to be the best turret platform. So if we nurf lazers, then there also needs to be a major re-evaluation of its cap use and fittings - because an Amarr ship sacrifices a lot to get that 'face melting' dps. Remember, Amarr ships have few mids, generally slow due to the 'gank and tank' design, almost no Amarr ship is an exception to this except perhaps the Arbitrator class.

As I see it - the balance has been borked. And the ones to suffer have not been so much Amarr as Gallente. Minmatar ships do everything Gallente ships do, with easier fittings, better ranges, more combat options, and faster speeds. And don't get people started on drones. . .


Also in the TD changes were before the TE changes - yes. But that is where the crying started. There is no way that Minmatar should get a low-slot mod that acts as a second damage mod - not even you can argue that that is balanced.

Finally - ship lists of best and worst and this and that are not arguments. . .

Wut?

Cerb has its niche in comparison to the Muninn - namely, perfect damage projection far, far past 100km. Of course, it will take a while for your missiles to hit out that far, but it can still make very viable support.

As for the Rook and Falcon, I would argue that they're still very useful in a fleet of around 50 people, where things like the added mobility of them will give them a role above the scorp. Once you start getting into the hundreds of people, I would agree that their usefulness begins to diminish... But so does the usefulness of Huginns/Rapiers.

Honestly, the Scimi is only superior to the basilisk in a perfect world where nothing hits you, nothing neuts you, and nothing tries to jam you. Even then, there are cases where the basi is better. (being able to run 5 large shield transporters as opposed to 4 comes to mind)

I actually prefer the Manti to the Hound, due to kinetic being a somewhat more flexible damage type than explosive, and four mids allows you to do some more interesting stuff with ewar. But I suppose that comes down to personal taste.

1. Amarr get a mid-slot mod that acts a second damage mod.
2. Even with the Amarr ship having 0 TCs and a Minmatar ship having 2 TEs, lasers still project damage better.



WTB 700 DPS at 60km Tempest.

Yay! A wild Liang appears!

Are you saying the TE doesn't help pulse with damage projection?

TE's favor AC's by virtue of increasing falloff considerably....they have a bigger effect on optimal+ falloff than any other turret system.

None of the other turrets have falloffs 130% of their optimal, by pushing falloff you reduce the drop in the curve and overall dps increases over x distance.

So a TE on a 800mm AC increases falloff what 7km or so? When you stack three of them you get about 25-30% (if memory serves) real range bonus with short range ammo (which I must say is going to rock when Hail gets buffed)

Opposed to the other systems that are primarily optimal, three TE's on a Neutron blaster cannon with faction AM pushes optimal + fall off from 19km (ish) to 28km where the comparable ACs go from 22km to 48km optimal + falloff with short range faction ammo. The amusing part is that the above example, blaster optimal is something like 11km and ACs are a whopping 3,500 or so with my my imperfect skills.

Not exactly game breaking in my opinion.

Hulls are more the issue than the turrets themselves.