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How to counter a republic fleet firetail in a frigate
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-10-09 11:06:02 UTC
Hi,

im wondering about possible counters to a firetail fit like this when in a FRIGATE

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19931054

In this fight i got lucky becuase i think he used his td on my friends missile ship by accident and so we got him. but only just. Also when we landed he must have been reloading his Medium ASB or out of charges cos he did not rep at all.

Anyway i found that my thrasher was too big to get into some of the plexes while we were hunting so i came back first in a executioner which this same guys friend and him killed and then in a firetail which he also killed.

when i was in the firetail he landed and immediatley scrammed and td me. orbiting quite close (sry i dont know the exact distance). He ignored my friends ship (I think it was a kestrel or a hookbill i cant remember) and laid all his dps on me. Even though me and my friend were both attacking him he simply used his medium asb to repair a ton of damage and killed us both. while remaining relatively unscathed.

i was in this:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19933242

i scrammed him and webbed him but just couldnt lay down enough dps with that td active.

Im guessing that a good counter would be a missile frigate but which one?

Also does anyone know the range on td's

i wont post my executioner loss becuase the fit is embarassing /o\

Thanks in advance
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#2 - 2013-10-09 11:13:06 UTC
Hawk, Cap independant, TD immune, insane Tank.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#3 - 2013-10-09 11:18:49 UTC
If a dessy cant get into the plex nore can a Hawk.

I would problally pick a tristan with drones, and dual armor reppers.

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Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#4 - 2013-10-09 11:25:59 UTC
Rail Incursus, that Firetail fit has terrible range control, anything with a web should EZ mode it to be honest.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-10-09 11:29:41 UTC
this again brings me to the question whats the range on td? I know there is a skill that increases range on td by 10% per level so just the standard range on a td would be nice.

thanks for all the replies
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-10-09 11:51:04 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
this again brings me to the question whats the range on td? I know there is a skill that increases range on td by 10% per level so just the standard range on a td would be nice.

thanks for all the replies


ok here's what you do: open the eve-kill link, check the little menu in the right upper corner, click on EFT fitting. Copy that to clipboard, open EFT. EFT automagically asks if you want to import the fit from clipboard. There you can freely study the properties of the fit.

Range of TD (like all EWAR) is massive and therefore irrelevant, in this case 72+36km with all V skills. Just assume you are always in range of damps, jams and TD if you want to actually do anything in frigs.

Yep, railcursus should deal with that fit.

.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-10-09 11:53:34 UTC
The only t1 frig i know can reliably kill a non linky firetail is the rail Incursus.

Personally i've found firetails to have a very high link-alt rate recently so that would ruin that.


Basically the comet and the incursus.

Because they are the best.

Edit: Actually a hookbill can probably mess it up too.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-10-09 11:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
wow thanks for the info. i guess ill have to skill up into the comet/incursus and see how it goes.
:D

edit: is there any way to tell if someone is using links? This guy did seem to have unusually high resistances and if he was fit the same as in the killmail that shouldnt be possible.
Seraph Castillon
In Control
#9 - 2013-10-09 12:11:31 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The only t1 frig i know can reliably kill a non linky firetail is the rail Incursus.

Personally i've found firetails to have a very high link-alt rate recently so that would ruin that.


Basically the comet and the incursus.

Because they are the best.

Edit: Actually a hookbill can probably mess it up too.


[Tormentor, FPL Plated AB Brawler]
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Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
200mm Reinforced Nanofiber Plates I
Heat Sink II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
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this too
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#10 - 2013-10-09 12:24:37 UTC
The Firetail's capacitor is pretty weak. One small neut will mess it up in a few cycles.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#11 - 2013-10-09 14:08:47 UTC
This hurts to say.... Condor.

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Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-10-09 15:10:30 UTC
Anything with a web and a little bit of damage projection should kill that. Those fits only work because boneheads see a ship with no range control and then try and brawl it down point blank which is where it wants you to be.

Provided you fit an AB + Web, you can easily kill that in a;

Rocket Breacher
Rocket Hookbill
Rocket Kestrel
Tristan
Brawling Crucifier

Depending on how bad the TD affects you, you can either win or easily disengage from this ship in a;

Rail Comet
Rail Merlin
Rail Incursus
Tormentor

Your only problem is going to be if he's got some combination of links+snakes that makes him faster under web than your unwebbed ship. At that point just don't fight him.
Cpt Smasher
Rafzakael Enterprises
#13 - 2013-10-09 20:26:44 UTC
Ynot Eyob wrote:
If a dessy cant get into the plex nore can a Hawk.

I would problally pick a tristan with drones, and dual armor reppers.



^ That is an epic counter.

And the "omg really" Kiting condor.

Overheat your MWD and pulse it as soon as you land, you almost always coast outta scram range. Then just kite, and shoot him down with your crappy DPS while laughing because he cant do anything.

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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-10-09 23:11:34 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The only t1 frig i know can reliably kill a non linky firetail is the rail Incursus.

Personally i've found firetails to have a very high link-alt rate recently so that would ruin that.


Basically the comet and the incursus.

Because they are the best.

Edit: Actually a hookbill can probably mess it up too.


[Tormentor, FPL Plated AB Brawler]
Internal Force Field Array I
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
200mm Reinforced Nanofiber Plates I
Heat Sink II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x2

this too


IFFA on a t1? honestly?

Anyhow i'm not convinced that the Tormentor can apply damage while tracking speed disrupted (If you try to stay in scorch range a unbonused td will bring your range down to nothing).. But seeing how the firetail is webless maybe.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-10-09 23:27:48 UTC
So - I have never flown AB frigates before last night. I had a rail incursus. Seemed pretty nice. Not quite sure how to use it really. Antimatter + Scram + web + keep at range/orbit ~7,000ish and profit? Or closer + javelin if against missiles?

Id love some advice here. I usually fly cruisers.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#16 - 2013-10-09 23:33:19 UTC
Dual web rocket Kestrel. (fit an AB + scram)

Use a 400 plate in a low slot for some buffer.

Load faction ammo (Use rage if you have high missile skills) and sit as close to the edge of scram range as possible.

Overheat all of the things. (Just be careful not to cook them).

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Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#17 - 2013-10-10 01:34:58 UTC
I've had mixed success with MSE + double web rocket Hookbill. Tends to work very well to kill most AC and blaster ships regardless of their fits. Just kite at max scram range and pound on them.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#18 - 2013-10-10 02:08:45 UTC
rail comet, double web armor td hookbill are both easy to use. press keep at range and wait till it explodes. Other frigs might require more clicks.

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Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#19 - 2013-10-10 02:46:43 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The only t1 frig i know can reliably kill a non linky firetail is the rail Incursus.

Personally i've found firetails to have a very high link-alt rate recently so that would ruin that.


Basically the comet and the incursus.

Because they are the best.

Edit: Actually a hookbill can probably mess it up too.


[Tormentor, FPL Plated AB Brawler]
Internal Force Field Array I
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
200mm Reinforced Nanofiber Plates I
Heat Sink II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x2

this too


IFFA on a t1? honestly?

Anyhow i'm not convinced that the Tormentor can apply damage while tracking speed disrupted (If you try to stay in scorch range a unbonused td will bring your range down to nothing).. But seeing how the firetail is webless maybe.



TBH I's swap the pulse for small focused beams. sit with keep at range at about 8km and just swap crystals depedning on if he range disrupts...and melt him down. lasers melt shield tanks quickly unless they specifically fit to counter them.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-10-10 16:04:24 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The only t1 frig i know can reliably kill a non linky firetail is the rail Incursus.

Personally i've found firetails to have a very high link-alt rate recently so that would ruin that.


Basically the comet and the incursus.

Because they are the best.

Edit: Actually a hookbill can probably mess it up too.


[Tormentor, FPL Plated AB Brawler]
Internal Force Field Array I
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
200mm Reinforced Nanofiber Plates I
Heat Sink II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x2

this too


IFFA on a t1? honestly?

Anyhow i'm not convinced that the Tormentor can apply damage while tracking speed disrupted (If you try to stay in scorch range a unbonused td will bring your range down to nothing).. But seeing how the firetail is webless maybe.



TBH I's swap the pulse for small focused beams. sit with keep at range at about 8km and just swap crystals depedning on if he range disrupts...and melt him down. lasers melt shield tanks quickly unless they specifically fit to counter them.


Might work.. At that point i'd think he would have similar dps as you at range though.. and similar tanks.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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