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Ishukone Ships and Surrounding issues... Coming SOON (TM)

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Ihrodir Commerciante
LootDepot
#141 - 2013-10-09 14:40:14 UTC
Red Dragon15 wrote:
Too late for me, 3 accts cancelled. Reasons:

-Not going thru this again were devs and game designers build a game up to say "its your game".....but then decided its really their game ...then feel that they are righteous in giving out restricted content to whomever they feel should get it. And tell the community to deal with it, and go into emergency PR mode from the backlash.

-Lack of content added to non-PVPers.....understand its PVP-driven game, but seriously ignoring all request for non-PVP content fixes that goes years without being looked at, then say "ah the code is too hard to change...."

-Again another expansion to force more PVP drama, good luck with the High Sec POCO, not like there wasn't enough with the changes to Moon Mining, the changes to mining sites, the limiting of ice fields.

The list goes on, but its been a good run......have fun, and see ya!

TLDR: Boohoo, I quit!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#142 - 2013-10-09 14:46:22 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
As someone who knows of nobody who has received free secret stuff from CCP or anything remotely connected: Can we grow up please? So what, you didn't get a ship. Big whoop. They only affect the economy if you let them. Aka, if you choose to buy them. Otherwise, they're worth nothing more than the hangar shiny they're supposed to be.


In think the Jealousy you allude to is a big part of it. Some people are acting like "if I can't get that, no one should". I don't understand that feeling.

Some people are upset because of the supposed "secrecy" aspect. I'm not, I never had any expectation that CCP would tell me their every move with other people.

Yet other people are upset because it violates some magical "neutrality" principal. While having CCP be neutral in EVE is cool, it's not written anywhere that they have to be that way. I didn't sign a contract with them before subbing saying "we'll always give you the same things other people get" lol.

This whole "scandal" is a non-issue to me. I'm more put off but the incredibly whiny community response than I am about anything CCP has done in this matter
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#143 - 2013-10-09 14:49:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
CCP Manifest wrote:


We know you deserve a timely clarification from CCP. We appreciate the patience those in some discussions around the internet have had for us. We also understand the impatience of those that didn't. I hope that a collectively constructed devblog can happen by the end of the week that covers most of the issues that arose out of "SOMER Blink Gate", and have begun work with CCP Guard and several others around the company on it already before consulting the CSM and on to you all.


I'll be watching what CCP does, and not what they say.

If you guys can't learn from your own history, expect to revisit player outrage every 6 months until there aren't enough players left to care anymore.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Shai 'Hulud
#144 - 2013-10-09 14:57:36 UTC
I just want to make sure the real problem here is clear: That you gave in-game assets to players for no better reason than "You like them." How you did it is completely irrelevant. I don't care that the ish. scorps were given in secret, I care that they were given, period.

I have played EVE off and on since beta, and this is your first scandal that has ever made me say the words "I quit." My initial, gut reaction was that your actions had broken the sandbox. This feeling has not changed. For the first time in 10 years, I have unsubed my accounts with no intention of reactivating them.

But, obviously I still hold some hope, or I would not be posting here. My demands may be a bit higher than most, however, as I want to see this idea's creator(s) gone. It is quite clear to me that the person(s) that came up with this have absolutely no clue how EVE works. Seriously, we had to explain to them how much a 1 of a kind unique ship is worth?!?! And then they replace that reward with another 1 of a kind unique ship (just one that has never existed before)?!? There was one way to fix the T20 scandal, and there is one way to fix this scandal: Remove those responsible. Either some part of them knew what they were doing was horribly wrong, or they are completely out of touch with the game over which they seemingly have so much power. In either case, they need to be removed from their position of power.

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Ihrodir Commerciante
LootDepot
#145 - 2013-10-09 14:58:18 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:


We know you deserve a timely clarification from CCP. We appreciate the patience those in some discussions around the internet have had for us. We also understand the impatience of those that didn't. I hope that a collectively constructed devblog can happen by the end of the week that covers most of the issues that arose out of "SOMER Blink Gate", and have begun work with CCP Guard and several others around the company on it already before consulting the CSM and on to you all.


I'll be watching what CCP does, and not what they say.

If you guys can't learn from your own history, expect to revisit player outrage every 6 months until there aren't enough players left to care anymore.

Except that EVE is steadily growing, the outrage does little more then merit more press for CCP, and all press is good press if it means you're visible.

Those who quit are the one's "taking the moral high ground" allegedly, but in reality it's people who were on the verge of quitting anyway, so it's not really a loss.
Shai 'Hulud
#146 - 2013-10-09 15:03:04 UTC
Ihrodir Commerciante wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:


We know you deserve a timely clarification from CCP. We appreciate the patience those in some discussions around the internet have had for us. We also understand the impatience of those that didn't. I hope that a collectively constructed devblog can happen by the end of the week that covers most of the issues that arose out of "SOMER Blink Gate", and have begun work with CCP Guard and several others around the company on it already before consulting the CSM and on to you all.


I'll be watching what CCP does, and not what they say.

If you guys can't learn from your own history, expect to revisit player outrage every 6 months until there aren't enough players left to care anymore.

Except that EVE is steadily growing, the outrage does little more then merit more press for CCP, and all press is good press if it means you're visible.

Those who quit are the one's "taking the moral high ground" allegedly, but in reality it's people who were on the verge of quitting anyway, so it's not really a loss.


Your assumptions are incorrect, proven wrong by the case of myself. Even if I was on the verge of quitting (which I wasn't), I would not have actually quit, I would have taken another in a long series of breaks from EVE.

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#147 - 2013-10-09 15:03:07 UTC
Ihrodir Commerciante wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:


We know you deserve a timely clarification from CCP. We appreciate the patience those in some discussions around the internet have had for us. We also understand the impatience of those that didn't. I hope that a collectively constructed devblog can happen by the end of the week that covers most of the issues that arose out of "SOMER Blink Gate", and have begun work with CCP Guard and several others around the company on it already before consulting the CSM and on to you all.


I'll be watching what CCP does, and not what they say.

If you guys can't learn from your own history, expect to revisit player outrage every 6 months until there aren't enough players left to care anymore.

Except that EVE is steadily growing, the outrage does little more then merit more press for CCP, and all press is good press if it means you're visible.

Those who quit are the one's "taking the moral high ground" allegedly, but in reality it's people who were on the verge of quitting anyway, so it's not really a loss.


You will excuse me if I don't find the musings of a week-old forum alt relevant to this issue.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#148 - 2013-10-09 15:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Jenn aSide wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

It's like any other hobby, if something starts diminishing the enjoyment you get out of it, you try to change whats going on.



We get all that. What we question is why in the hell something like this would diminish your enjoyment. I'm flying around shooting stuff right now, and not one Ishkone Scorp has shown up to deny me some pleasure lol.


So if it doesn't affect you personally, then it's no big deal right? When T20 was handing out bpos to BoB I was in a highsec corp doing missions - since I wasn't a manufacturer, wasn't in big nullsec wars, or involved in how they're financed, etc then I suppose the whole T20 thing wasn't an issue at all, right?

Anyway, let me just run through some people, situations, etc to demonstrate how this affects the sandbox and enjoyment.
Collectors. Traders. People who already owned one of these ships. Similar organisations that compete with somer who don't get any such recognition or gifts. The fact that the players who were gifted them compete with everyone else in this game - whether thats ship pvp, or market pvp, or competing with other organisations, or their ability to back/help their friends/allies using isk/resources granted to them by CCP. Etc.

These are just some of the people and ways in which directly, and secretly, giving one group a bunch of high-value items can alter the way in which the game plays out - and that in turn can impact on the enjoyment people have. And that's just the direct affects - you also have to realise that when it comes to games and competing, if you know that someone else playing is getting an unfair advantage that creates a rather negative atmosphere / feeling for lots of people - even if they're not directly affected by it, they don't like the fact that it's happening.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#149 - 2013-10-09 15:15:21 UTC
Thank you!

Sorry some people over there mad such terrible decisions - that you wish you took less hard-earned vacation time with your family. That feeling sucks.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#150 - 2013-10-09 15:19:43 UTC
PS, I would have hoped you'd have been more mature than just to point the finger and say "they're jealous look they're jealousssss!"

No, that's not it. I couldn't give a fig about having one of those ships, or the ISK. What matters to me is having a level playing field, and not having outside forces (for lack of a better term - "outside" being not the players themselves) skew things one way or another.

I'm also not adverse to CCP giving groups/fansites/whatever promotional things that don't affect the game. Give their characters unique t-shirts with "SOMER" stamped on them, or mention them in a spotlight. Don't give them hundreds of billions of isk to use in the game against everyone else however they want
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2013-10-09 15:25:36 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
next time you take half the company on vacation, please communicate that


There are security reasons why that's a bad idea that I can't really argue with.


You should take that a step further and do what large corporations do. Do not allow multiple C level or directors on the same planes in-case of accident.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-10-09 15:31:42 UTC
Ihrodir Commerciante wrote:
Red Dragon15 wrote:
Too late for me, 3 accts cancelled. Reasons:

-Not going thru this again were devs and game designers build a game up to say "its your game".....but then decided its really their game ...then feel that they are righteous in giving out restricted content to whomever they feel should get it. And tell the community to deal with it, and go into emergency PR mode from the backlash.

-Lack of content added to non-PVPers.....understand its PVP-driven game, but seriously ignoring all request for non-PVP content fixes that goes years without being looked at, then say "ah the code is too hard to change...."

-Again another expansion to force more PVP drama, good luck with the High Sec POCO, not like there wasn't enough with the changes to Moon Mining, the changes to mining sites, the limiting of ice fields.

The list goes on, but its been a good run......have fun, and see ya!

TLDR: Boohoo, I quit!

That type of answer is old, tired and posted by immature fools. Enough people leaving the game is a problem. But the morons and idiots can only reply with spam and girly remarks...
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-10-09 15:35:15 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

It's like any other hobby, if something starts diminishing the enjoyment you get out of it, you try to change whats going on.



We get all that. What we question is why in the hell something like this would diminish your enjoyment. I'm flying around shooting stuff right now, and not one Ishkone Scorp has shown up to deny me some pleasure lol.


So if it doesn't affect you personally, then it's no big deal right? When T20 was handing out bpos to BoB I was in a highsec corp doing missions - since I wasn't a manufacturer, wasn't in big nullsec wars, or involved in how they're financed, etc then I suppose the whole T20 thing wasn't an issue at all, right?

Anyway, let me just run through some people, situations, etc to demonstrate how this affects the sandbox and enjoyment.
Collectors. Traders. People who already owned one of these ships. Similar organisations that compete with somer who don't get any such recognition or gifts. The fact that the players who were gifted them compete with everyone else in this game - whether thats ship pvp, or market pvp, or competing with other organisations, or their ability to back/help their friends/allies using isk/resources granted to them by CCP. Etc.

These are just some of the people and ways in which directly, and secretly, giving one group a bunch of high-value items can alter the way in which the game plays out - and that in turn can impact on the enjoyment people have. And that's just the direct affects - you also have to realise that when it comes to games and competing, if you know that someone else playing is getting an unfair advantage that creates a rather negative atmosphere / feeling for lots of people - even if they're not directly affected by it, they don't like the fact that it's happening.

Exactly...good post. But the powers that be don't give a **** about the rest of the community, their actions prove that. And the toads and creeps whining about people being jealous are likely people who love their freebies in life when everyone else has to pay...
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#154 - 2013-10-09 15:39:41 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
next time you take half the company on vacation, please communicate that


There are security reasons why that's a bad idea that I can't really argue with.


However you could have said something like "the relevant devs are currently absent, we are going to look into the problem as soon as theyre back", it doesnt state how many are away, why they are and how long they are away, but its a sign of life and thats all we were asking for.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#155 - 2013-10-09 15:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Jenn aSide wrote:
I work for a government agency

Please tell me more about your indifference to lobbying.


Shai 'Hulud wrote:
There was one way to fix the T20 scandal, and there is one way to fix this scandal: Remove those responsible. Either some part of them knew what they were doing was horribly wrong, or they are completely out of touch with the game over which they seemingly have so much power. In either case, they need to be removed from their position of power.

+1
The Warfish
Goats Unlimited
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#156 - 2013-10-09 15:42:45 UTC
What this whoo haa says to me is this:

CCP needs to design and introduce Paint Scheme Slots for Ships.

A. It would allow "Alliance Design" Paint Schemes for Alliances including Alliance Logos (long desired by players).

B. It would provide special NPC Corp Paint Schemes as Rewards from Loyalty Stores and the NEX Exchange.

C. It would give CCP a clear-cut option to "reward" or "gift" folks something cool that is not isk or a ship or the like. Untradable paint schemes are aethetic value only.

Paint Scheme "modules" could be fit one to a ship, removed at any time (withotu destroying the paint), and could even be dropped as loot (consider it an external data blah blah schematic).

Solves not only this SOMER complaint, but brings somethign awesome to EVE in terms of Player/Alliance Designed Paint Schemes, something to sell us in both LP and Arum (if desired), and gives CCP a route to legitimate-complaint-free gifting.

After all, CCP IS the NPC Corps and Empires, and giving away paint scheme schematics may make some comaplian cause they didn't get them, is different than this issue.

Also CCP, a lesson to the wise.....transparency works wonders.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#157 - 2013-10-09 15:43:27 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

It's like any other hobby, if something starts diminishing the enjoyment you get out of it, you try to change whats going on.



We get all that. What we question is why in the hell something like this would diminish your enjoyment. I'm flying around shooting stuff right now, and not one Ishkone Scorp has shown up to deny me some pleasure lol.


So if it doesn't affect you personally, then it's no big deal right?


Geneally speaking, yes, with a few personal exceptions.

Quote:

When T20 was handing out bpos to BoB I was in a highsec corp doing missions - since I wasn't a manufacturer, wasn't in big nullsec wars, or involved in how they're financed, etc then I suppose the whole T20 thing wasn't an issue at all, right?


That was a big deal because it handed a large group of players a direct unfair competative advantage. Station spinning inferior scorps do not.

Quote:

Anyway, let me just run through some people, situations, etc to demonstrate how this affects the sandbox and enjoyment.
Collectors. Traders. People who already owned one of these ships. Similar organisations that compete with somer who don't get any such recognition or gifts. The fact that the players who were gifted them compete with everyone else in this game - whether thats ship pvp, or market pvp, or competing with other organisations, or their ability to back/help their friends/allies using isk/resources granted to them by CCP. Etc.

These are just some of the people and ways in which directly, and secretly, giving one group a bunch of high-value items can alter the way in which the game plays out - and that in turn can impact on the enjoyment people have. And that's just the direct affects - you also have to realise that when it comes to games and competing, if you know that someone else playing is getting an unfair advantage that creates a rather negative atmosphere / feeling for lots of people - even if they're not directly affected by it, they don't like the fact that it's happening.



And again i get that. But it's still just a game.

I get miffed at times that their are high sec incursion runners making as much isk as I am(while flying blingier ships) while I'm in null sec risking my mach to a hotdrop (understanding that being in null has side advantages that they don't get, like the escalation I did last night lol). I've talked about that on the forum.

But those incursion runners aren't lessening my enjoyment, I'm' not out in null shooting serpentis rats while screaming at my computer screen about Incursions lol. I think it's an imbalance, but I've learned to live with it, I even joined up with some high sec incursion communities like TVP and ISN to get some of that delicious high sec isk pie lol.

Their are healthy ways to deal with dislike in a game and unhealthy/silly ways. What some of you are doing is IMO silly.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#158 - 2013-10-09 15:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
raven666wings wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I work for a government agency

Please tell me more about your indifference to lobbying.


Government AGENCY, I'm not an elected official.

Also, very much "lobbying" is as silly as the reaction people are having to some Crap Scorpians (Crapians?) being given out.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#159 - 2013-10-09 15:49:01 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:

Exactly...good post. But the powers that be don't give a **** about the rest of the community, their actions prove that. And the toads and creeps whining about people being jealous are likely people who love their freebies in life when everyone else has to pay...


That's beyond silly. I'm not on welfare lol.

But the underlined part is something i think is a big deal for some of you, while being something I think is dumb.

I don't play EVE online so someone will care about me. I don't expect CCP to care about anything to do with me except my sub money. I have family and friends for that. You see it all the time on this forum, "they don't care about high sec", "they don't care about null", they don't care about x".

The idea that they are supposed to "care" is one of those unreasonable expectations that people have, and why those same people tend to end up supremely unhappy in life in general.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#160 - 2013-10-09 15:53:43 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Very much looking forward to CCP's response to this, once they've had the time to give it due consideration. Thanks for posting this, Manifest!

"Please CCP, spin this so I don't look bad anymore!"

Heh that won't work...

Maybe they'll reduce the refine to 0 trit.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?