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[PIE Inc] Regarding those who question the Empress

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Author
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#121 - 2013-10-10 23:06:17 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Honestly, my only qualm with the Empress is how her own people treat her, that is, as God.

Relations have been quite cordial between the Gallente and Amarr under her reign. Lets hope it stays this way.


It would be wrong to consider any Amarrian Emperor or Empress as God.

Rather, they are the most-exulted human servants of God.


Either way the Empress is being treated as close to God as possible. And I do have other problems with her of course. Though they stem from my own extreme bias against monarchy, the belief that the right to power, wealth, and fame, is granted to you just for being born.

Of course, that goes for all royalty and not just the Empress.


It's funny you should say that, because it wasn't always that way. The idea that the Emperor projects the will of God is an ancient one spelled out directly in the Scriptures, but the idea of the heir families is relatively more recent, having been instituted during the Moral Reforms. Before then, any family could feasibly be denoted as an heir family given substantial enough merit.

It's also somewhat ironic, because the Emperor has not notably ever followed a precise father to son lineage the way it did in other fuedal powers. The Emperor was always chosen by some body or another, and this Empress is no exception. Essentially, nothing was assured to her on her birth save that she might one day have a one-in-five chance of gaining the Imperial seat. Which she initially lost.

I suppose ours isn't based on the same set of methods as the Federation, but at least it can feasibly be said that our rulers have been trained in administration since birth. All of them are effective organizers even if I don't necessarily agree with the entirety of heir family politics. Even I grew up knowing vaguely what I would be doing with my life and I was trained accordingly.

With the Federation, it seems to be one of two ways. Certainly there are old money powers who really are from political family legacies and who grow up knowing they will contest elections, thus are trained likewise to master popular opinion (though not necessarily actual administration). Then there are those who enter the government from other fields, which is also a bit of a mixed bag. Oddly, I think that although far less consistent, some of your better leaders came from the latter end of the spectrum.

Perhaps there is hope for democracy. It always sounds excellent in theory, so we can only hope that one day the Gallente Federation experiment bears fruit and delivers a perfect form of government. Until then, I'm not sure our system produces any less effective government than yours. It simply tends to be longer lived and doesn't necessarily bow to popular opinion, for good and ill in that regard.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#122 - 2013-10-11 00:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Louella Dougans wrote:
A document recently given to me by a Caldari friend, shows that Andreus Ixiris is a genocidal lunatic, who has called for the extermination of both the Caldari and Amarr populations.

This is in addition to the well known messages of support Andreus Ixiris made to the Blood Raider Covenant, in "solving the Amarrian Problem".

At this point, Andreus Ixiris will foam at the mouth and claim one of a number of things:

1. These things never happened at all - denying reality, showing him to be a delusional lunatic
2. That he did say and do those things, but it was an elaborate deception - showing him to be entirely untrustworthy, and/or a coward unable to be honest.
3. That everyone is all lying, and there's a grand Amarr-Caldari conspiracy against him in particular - showing him to be a paranoid delusional lunatic.

So, with no credibility at all, Andreus Ixiris's flappings are, at best, bad comedy. Delusional, cowardly, untrustable, paranoid, take your pick.



Quite an interesting time stamp there. I'm pretty sure 2009 was before New Eden was even discovered. Also, if this was allegedly given to you by a Caldari friend, why is a Gallente rookie ship being piloted? Judging by the look of the neocom, this was before the Empires put their rookie ships on sale so outsiders could pilot them.

If you're going to fabricate evidence, at least put effort into it.


*peruses the message* Quite an interesting time stamp Fredfredbug4, "2013". Perhaps by pointing out meaningless minutae, you demonstrate you are unable to provide an actual constructive, substantive response to Sister Louelle's unmasking of Andreus Ixiris for what he truly is? I for one, am thankful and hope he is put on PIE's list even if he is outside the Empire.

Signed, in the name of the Empress, Our Lady of Victory,

Lunarisse Aspenstar
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-10-11 01:05:36 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:


It's funny you should say that, because it wasn't always that way. The idea that the Emperor projects the will of God is an ancient one spelled out directly in the Scriptures, but the idea of the heir families is relatively more recent, having been instituted during the Moral Reforms. Before then, any family could feasibly be denoted as an heir family given substantial enough merit.


Might I ask, what exactly lead to these reforms? I'm sure the story is probably long and complicated but as briefly as you can put it please.

Constantin Baracca wrote:
It's also somewhat ironic, because the Emperor has not notably ever followed a precise father to son lineage the way it did in other fuedal powers. The Emperor was always chosen by some body or another, and this Empress is no exception. Essentially, nothing was assured to her on her birth save that she might one day have a one-in-five chance of gaining the Imperial seat. Which she initially lost.


A one in five chance is extremely good considering less than 0.0000000001% of the Amarr population have this opportunity.

Constantin Baracca wrote:
I suppose ours isn't based on the same set of methods as the Federation, but at least it can feasibly be said that our rulers have been trained in administration since birth. All of them are effective organizers even if I don't necessarily agree with the entirety of heir family politics. Even I grew up knowing vaguely what I would be doing with my life and I was trained accordingly.


People are born with natural talents and skills (or in your case, are gifts from god). Some people truly have it in them to lead a nation, and others, not so much. No amount of education will make up for someone who lacks the charisma and leadership necessary for politics. Certainly Jamyl has both the talent and education, but is this her true calling in life? Just doesn't seem to be very happy as Empress and while she had a lot of momentum going when she first sat on the throne, things have slowed down significantly.

Constantin Baracca wrote:
With the Federation, it seems to be one of two ways. Certainly there are old money powers who really are from political family legacies and who grow up knowing they will contest elections, thus are trained likewise to master popular opinion (though not necessarily actual administration). Then there are those who enter the government from other fields, which is also a bit of a mixed bag. Oddly, I think that although far less consistent, some of your better leaders came from the latter end of the spectrum.


This perspective is pretty much entirely correct. Almost every election comes down to a contest between socioeconomic classes and backgrounds. The previous one was a bit of an anomaly as the two major candidates both had significant political and business backgrounds. Usually it's the CEO of a corporation going up against some farmboy.

Constantin Baracca wrote:

Perhaps there is hope for democracy. It always sounds excellent in theory, so we can only hope that one day the Gallente Federation experiment bears fruit and delivers a perfect form of government. Until then, I'm not sure our system produces any less effective government than yours. It simply tends to be longer lived and doesn't necessarily bow to popular opinion, for good and ill in that regard.


I don't think your system is less effective overall, though my own personal dislike of it comes from my firm belief in meritocracy which I probably get from my Caldari mother. Society should be run by the best of the best and a government should have a system that allows the best of the best to shine through. Democracy is both good and bad for this. On the plus side, a leader must be good enough to convince trillions of people that he is the best choice, on the otherside, Democracy tends to favor who is the better politician rather than the better leader.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#124 - 2013-10-11 01:10:09 UTC
Someone let me know when this topic returns to the list.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-10-11 01:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:

*peruses the message* Quite an interesting time stamp Fredfredbug4, "2013". Perhaps by pointing out meaningless minutae, you demonstrate you are unable to provide an actual constructive, substantive response to Sister Louelle's unmasking of Andreus Ixiris for what he truly is? I for one, am thankful and hope he is put on PIE's list even if he is outside the Empire.

Signed, in the name of the Empress, Our Lady of Victory,

Lunarisse Aspenstar


I have no idea what you are talking about. Did the Empire start using a new calander or something? I'm quite sure that the year is YC115. My clock says it, my post say it, and my wallet transactions say it. What the hell are you going on about?

My response is constructive as it proves that Ms.Louelle is fabricating evidence in a pathetic attempt to hurt Andreus' reputation. The mail is from a fictional/ancient date, and judging by the neocom version, this "evidence" was obtained at time where it would be impossible for a non-gallentean to own and pilot that ship. Oh, and there is one other thing I discovered...

The pilot that Andreus allegedly sent the message to, "Kiera Alidaar" does not even exist. A galnet search reveals a pilot with no portrait (as required for all capsuleers by recent CONCORD mandates) as well as absolutely no history. There are also smaller details that don't add up. For example, there is not a single soul in the Federal Navy Academy communications channel, which is always full of the chatter of cadets and officers. Clearly, this Kiera Alidaar was never really here as a screenshot of her interface would reveal plenty of FNA talk, even during quiet hours.

What this means is that Ms. Louelle is a blatant fraud and a conniving liar. Not only that, but she is an arrogant ***** who thinks we are all so stupid that she doesn't even need to put effort into her forgery. If PIE has a shred of honor they will put her on this list for being a deceitful embarrassment to the Empire. Unless of course she can either apologize and/or explain herself.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#126 - 2013-10-11 01:28:33 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:

*peruses the message* Quite an interesting time stamp Fredfredbug4, "2013". Perhaps by pointing out meaningless minutae, you demonstrate you are unable to provide an actual constructive, substantive response to Sister Louelle's unmasking of Andreus Ixiris for what he truly is? I for one, am thankful and hope he is put on PIE's list even if he is outside the Empire.

Signed, in the name of the Empress, Our Lady of Victory,

Lunarisse Aspenstar


I have no idea what you are talking about. Did the Empire start using a new calander or something? I'm quite sure that the year is YC115. My clock says it, my post say it, and my wallet transactions say it. What the hell are you talking about?

My response is constructive as it proves that Ms.Louelle is fabricating evidence in a pathetic attempt to hurt Andreus' reputation. The mail is from a fictional/ancient date, and judging by the neocom version, this "evidence" was obtained at time where it would be impossible for a non-gallentean to own and pilot that ship. Oh, and there is one other thing I discovered.

The Pilot Andreus allegedly sent that message to, "Kiera Alidaar" does not even exist. A galnet search reveals a pilot with no portrait (as required for all capsuleers by recent CONCORD mandates) as well as absolutely no history. There are also smaller details that don't add up. For example, there is not a single soul in the Federal Navy Academy communications channel, which is always full of the chatter of cadets and officers. Clearly, this Kiera Alidaar was never really here as a screenshot of her interface would reveal plenty of FNA talk, even during quiet hours.

What this means is that Ms. Louelle is a blatant fraud and a conniving liar. Not only that, but she is an arrogant ***** who thinks we are all so stupid that she doesn't even need to put effort into her forgery. If PIE has a shred of honor they will put her on this list for being a deceitful embarrassment to the Empire. Unless of course she can either apologize and/or explain herself.


Your post says "Posted: 2013.10.11 01:26 " Now can we focus on the List and not the pecularities of the IGS's dating system?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#127 - 2013-10-11 01:33:39 UTC
We're going to start mocking those provincial enough to use local date/time systems now?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-10-11 01:38:17 UTC
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:


Your post says "Posted: 2013.10.11 01:26 " Now can we focus on the List and not the pecularities of the IGS's dating system?


It clearly says 115.10.11 01:26. You're either lying, there is some new calendar I somehow missed, or your neocom is bugged. I will be kind and assume the last one, so I highly suggest a firmware update or contacting tech support.

And we are talking about the list are we not? While I'm probably not in a place to make suggestions about the list, I urge PIE to add Ms. Louelle to the list for a dishonorable act of deception not only against Andreus, but the whole of the IGS. If PIE stands to uphold the tenants and laws of the Amarr faith, then they should have no problem with adding someone to the list for false witness, which if I remember correctly (and do correct me if I am wrong) is a damnable offense in the eyes of your God.

Even if the timestamp can be explained, there are plenty of other discrepancies in her so called "evidence" that I would imagine offend your God.

Dishonor on her, dishonor on her family, dishonor on her cow.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-10-11 01:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We're going to start mocking those provincial enough to use local date/time systems now?


Capsuleers tend to adhere to universal time, especially when in flight. Of course it's possible that this pilot is using a local date/time but I find it highly unlikely considering I've never seen a capsuleer use local date/time while in their ship as that tends to confuse people and complicate things with other capsuleers. Still, the time stamp isn't even the biggest issue with this evidence. The main issue being the nonexistant pilot who received this message.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#130 - 2013-10-11 01:55:03 UTC
Sister Dougans has more decency in her little finger than Andreus Ixiris has in his entire twisted little being.

She's a nun for God's sake. A nun!

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2013-10-11 02:02:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Sister Dougans has more decency in her little finger than Andreus Ixiris has in his entire twisted little being.

She's a nun for God's sake. A nun!


And Dochuta Karsoth was the Court Chamberlain. If the Emperor or Empress is the closest person in the Empire to your God, then the Court Chamberlain is the second closest. And yet, Karsoth turned out to be the most corrupt, vile, and decadent figure in recent Amarr history.

If the Court Chamberlain can succumb to corruption and wickedness that makes a Gallentean look like a prude, I'd imagine that a humble nun would be able to fall victim to lying and deceit.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#132 - 2013-10-11 02:05:28 UTC
I think I'll take my chances.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2013-10-11 02:14:53 UTC
As you wish.

However, I suggest Sister either retracts her claims, explains these discrepancies, or makes an apology. One or any combination of the three should be sufficient to mend things.

Of course, I am a Gallentean. My suggestions are probably moot to you and for all I know, forgery of evidence may not even be a major offense in the Empire. In the Federation however, you can land 50 years in an off world prison for fabricating evidence, probably more if you're a capsuleer, being practically immortal and all.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#134 - 2013-10-11 02:45:10 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

Filth, I have served with the Speakers[/url]. I know the Speakers. The Speakers have honour.

Filth, you're no Speaker.
So let me see if I have this correct, while serving in a military capacity from the safety of your capsule you saved a Speaker of Truths from harm and in the process became an expert on the Order, through some magical osmosis?

Your loyalty to Court Chamberlain Dochuta Karsoth was just as unshakable an incorrect as your loyalty to Jamyl Sarum. Because as a military man you are not paid to question authority, it is your intellectual blind spot. You sir might be a fine pilot and skilled tactician, but clearly you are a noob as far as politics, history, or powers of observation are concerned. Kindly share a link of how you stood up to the former Court Chamberlain, or admit you were duped then also.

Honor is something your ilk of soldiers, who blindly follow orders, know little of. If you lack the spine to disobey an immoral order, or have dulled your ability to recognize fraudulent leadership then what little sense of honor you might have been capable of is invalidated. A man who does not know right from wrong can have no sense of honor.

You fearsome pilot have not the good sense to use your God given brain to do anything beyond following the orders of those above you. Good for a soldier, but pitiful in any intellectual exchange on history, culture, religion, sociology, psychology, or current events. You haven't been told/ ordered what to think so you are impotent in these regards.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#135 - 2013-10-11 05:32:15 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

However, I suggest Sister either retracts her claims, explains these discrepancies, or makes an apology. One or any combination of the three should be sufficient to mend things.


You are not in a position to demand anything of myself.

And the claim that Velators were "impossible" to be owned and flown by non-Gallente is... ludicrous.

It transpires that the agent "Kiera Alidaar" is a name used by an ethnic Gallente, who uncovered several genocidalists, such as Andreus, in a scheme described on the IGS years ago.

So, it is you that should make the apology.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#136 - 2013-10-11 07:30:13 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Someone let me know when this topic returns to the list.

Worried you might not be on it?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#137 - 2013-10-11 08:57:28 UTC
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
[ I for one, am thankful and hope he is put on PIE's list even if he is outside the Empire.


Just so you know, Andreus has been kill on sight to PIE for years.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#138 - 2013-10-11 09:19:40 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Filth, I have served with the Speakers. I know the Speakers. The Speakers have honour.

Filth, you're no Speaker.
So let me see if I have this correct, while serving in a military capacity from the safety of your capsule you saved a Speaker of Truths from harm and in the process became an expert on the Order, through some magical osmosis?


Myself and Brother Joshua worked together very closely during his investigation. During that time we got to know each other pretty well. He even shared with me the classified evidence against Lord Kor-Azor.

Whereas I doubt if you have ever been in the same building as a Speaker.



Quote:

Your loyalty to Court Chamberlain Dochuta Karsoth was just as unshakable an incorrect as your loyalty to Jamyl Sarum. Because as a military man you are not paid to question authority, it is your intellectual blind spot. You sir might be a fine pilot and skilled tactician, but clearly you are a noob as far as politics, history, or powers of observation are concerned. Kindly share a link of how you stood up to the former Court Chamberlain, or admit you were duped then also.


The interregnum was not the Empire's finest moment. But I did have some concerns at the time, and you may recall that on several occasions I did urge the Succession Committee to speed up the process of selecting a new Emperor.

The way I see it, this was the best way to ensure a return to normality. I doubt very much if throwing around accusations without evidence (which apparently is your idea of good politics) would have produced a better outcome.


Quote:

Honor is something your ilk of soldiers, who blindly follow orders, know little of. If you lack the spine to disobey an immoral order, or have dulled your ability to recognize fraudulent leadership then what little sense of honor you might have been capable of is invalidated. A man who does not know right from wrong can have no sense of honor.


Let me tell you the story of how I first met Brother Joshua of the Speakers of Truth.

Lord Kor-Azor ordered a detachment of dreadnoughts to bombard one of his own planets, Liparer II.

I was with a PIE force in the system at the time and we witnessed Brother Joshua convince some of Kor-Azor's most loyal captains to disobey their orders.

They disobeyed their orders in part because they realised that they were immoral.

We supported their decision then, and we support it now. The easy option would have been to support Kor-Azor because at the time it appeared that the orders were legally issued and the Liparer system was under his jurisdiction but we took the path of righteousness instead.

So how about you come back and talk about spine once you have stopped heckling from the sidelines, stopped making fraudulent claims about yourself and actually done something that benefits Amarr?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Solarienne
Hrimdraugar
#139 - 2013-10-11 09:28:59 UTC
Louella Dougans wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

However, I suggest Sister either retracts her claims, explains these discrepancies, or makes an apology. One or any combination of the three should be sufficient to mend things.


You are not in a position to demand anything of myself.

And the claim that Velators were "impossible" to be owned and flown by non-Gallente is... ludicrous.

It transpires that the agent "Kiera Alidaar" is a name used by an ethnic Gallente, who uncovered several genocidalists, such as Andreus, in a scheme described on the IGS years ago.

So, it is you that should make the apology.


Well, isn't that the damndest bit of history I have had the pleasure of reading.

Thank you Sister Dougans, this puts a lot of things into perspective.

As for PIE's intended purge of heretics, I can't condone such narrow definitions of 'irregular thought' and similar classifications of deviation, but you're hardly bound by the opinions of a lowly soldier such as myself. More to the point you've not quite yet come around to the better methods of curing the disease of individual 'thought at the cost of the collective' that is society, though some of your methods (TCMCs for example) show promise.

As ever I admire your conviction, and will be looking forwards to the reports of operations to come.

PY-RE Combat Pilot

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#140 - 2013-10-11 09:43:18 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We're going to start mocking those provincial enough to use local date/time systems now?


It's been 6881 years since the crowning of the first Amarrian Emperor and that's the year you'll hear on my homeworld. Lord Hanaya was about 200 years old when the Yoiul Conference happened, and wasn't inclined to change the calender for a bunch of foreigners.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.