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[PIE Inc] Regarding those who question the Empress

First post
Author
Kaid Hayden
Seven Stars Search and Rescue
#61 - 2013-10-09 14:18:35 UTC
Dahacai Laguz wrote:
Having worked on occasion for the Royal Family makes me support this. The Empress' beauty and grace is unrivalled and beckoning even to a heathen such as myself. Had I the faith you possess and it would be an honor to be one of her knights.


Are you writing this with a gun to your head or something? They got a hostage on you? Because if you're trying to pick up Holder ladies, this ain't gonna work, bro.
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2013-10-09 14:30:42 UTC
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Gaven, oh you little drop of sunshine you,

If someone has actual, recorded proof of one of your own - yes, a PIE member - decrying the Empress, the Theology Council, and the Amarrian Faith, would you report them too?

This is fun!


If you are asking whether or not we would hypocritically allow such a thing inside our ranks the answer is no.

Before you start posting "evidence" you'd have to realize that we'd have to consider the source and the context as well. This public conversation is not the place however. If you have such a thing a private conversation with myself (PIE Diplo) or Gaven (PIE CEO) would probably be best.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-10-09 14:56:47 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
There is a sidenote I would wish to make, and that has to do with direct questions of authority (denying that someone is your leader, chief executive, commander in chief, or whatever title has been bestowed upon him/her, or claiming their holding of the title is illegitimate) vs. questions of policy. The former, I agree, are troublesome no matter how a government or other such body is structured, with a few rare exceptions related to fitness to rule, of which Empress Sarum is not one of them (and for her sake, I do not wish such a mental breakdown upon her). The latter, though, are a normal and healthy part of a functioning governance apparatus. To conflate the former and the latter is quite harmful, considering that while she may have all the enlightenment the title of Empress brings, Jamyl I Sarum is still as capable of goofing something up as you or I, Lord Lok'Ri.


In short: "the Empress sucks" is one thing, "the Empress made a bad call there because of such-and-such reason" is a whole another story. Don't mix the two up, and I think we'll all be better off for it.


That you can say this just demonstrates that you know nothing about the unique position of the Empress as the viceroy of God. There are only a very select few who have the authority to question the Empress, and none of them frequent these forums.

And you missed my point entirely. Questioning someone's policy is not the same as calling the person into question. In fact, there's a name for the latter: ad hominem. Furthermore, debates about policy are a normal part of a functioning society. Suppressing them causes worse problems.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#64 - 2013-10-09 15:28:51 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
There is a sidenote I would wish to make, and that has to do with direct questions of authority (denying that someone is your leader, chief executive, commander in chief, or whatever title has been bestowed upon him/her, or claiming their holding of the title is illegitimate) vs. questions of policy. The former, I agree, are troublesome no matter how a government or other such body is structured, with a few rare exceptions related to fitness to rule, of which Empress Sarum is not one of them (and for her sake, I do not wish such a mental breakdown upon her). The latter, though, are a normal and healthy part of a functioning governance apparatus. To conflate the former and the latter is quite harmful, considering that while she may have all the enlightenment the title of Empress brings, Jamyl I Sarum is still as capable of goofing something up as you or I, Lord Lok'Ri.


In short: "the Empress sucks" is one thing, "the Empress made a bad call there because of such-and-such reason" is a whole another story. Don't mix the two up, and I think we'll all be better off for it.


That you can say this just demonstrates that you know nothing about the unique position of the Empress as the viceroy of God. There are only a very select few who have the authority to question the Empress, and none of them frequent these forums.

And you missed my point entirely. Questioning someone's policy is not the same as calling the person into question. In fact, there's a name for the latter: ad hominem. Furthermore, debates about policy are a normal part of a functioning society. Suppressing them causes worse problems.


His lordship understood your point entirely. It is not our place to question the policies instituted by those so far above us. Those who do have the necessary authority and wisdom to do such are not members of this forum.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#65 - 2013-10-09 16:19:41 UTC
Cain Aloga wrote:
This is an Internal matter within the Amarr Empire. Even though they are our sworn enemies, and we are theirs, It is my opinion that this matter be left to them and them alone. I would ask that any Minmatar refrain from further commenting on this topic, as it is neither necessary nor productive.


Why should we extend them this courtesy when they come unwelcome into threads that are Matari internal matters? I recall a good many doing so in Pilot Starfire's thread seeking answers from the Tribal Council, as a recent example.

So long as they see fit to interrupt our discussions with their petty agendas and lies I'll continue to return the favor.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-10-09 16:54:54 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
It is not our place to question the policies instituted by those so far above us. Those who do have the necessary authority and wisdom to do such are not members of this forum.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#67 - 2013-10-09 17:08:27 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:

So advocating an unorthodox idea within the Empire is viewed the same as committing a violent crime against persons? Interesting.


This is because unorthodox beliefs in the Empire have the tendency to cause quite a lot of violent crime. Heretical cults (the Sani Sabik), religious terrorism (The Tetrimon), revolutions (any number of insurrections based on doctrine differences), and in this case a potential uprising against the Empress. Ideas are like fire; useful when controlled and directed correctly, but dangerous when let loose upon kindling.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Anslo
Scope Works
#68 - 2013-10-09 17:10:33 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Cain Aloga wrote:
This is an Internal matter within the Amarr Empire. Even though they are our sworn enemies, and we are theirs, It is my opinion that this matter be left to them and them alone. I would ask that any Minmatar refrain from further commenting on this topic, as it is neither necessary nor productive.


Why should we extend them this courtesy when they come unwelcome into threads that are Matari internal matters? I recall a good many doing so in Pilot Starfire's thread seeking answers from the Tribal Council, as a recent example.

So long as they see fit to interrupt our discussions with their petty agendas and lies I'll continue to return the favor.


Weird, I'm agreeing with you on something.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#69 - 2013-10-09 17:14:06 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Cain Aloga wrote:
This is an Internal matter within the Amarr Empire. Even though they are our sworn enemies, and we are theirs, It is my opinion that this matter be left to them and them alone. I would ask that any Minmatar refrain from further commenting on this topic, as it is neither necessary nor productive.


Why should we extend them this courtesy when they come unwelcome into threads that are Matari internal matters? I recall a good many doing so in Pilot Starfire's thread seeking answers from the Tribal Council, as a recent example.

So long as they see fit to interrupt our discussions with their petty agendas and lies I'll continue to return the favor.


It is simple. We are not Amarr. Aspire to be better than them, Pilot Rella. Wise men speak only when they have something to say. Fools when they have to say something. Do not be the fool.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-10-09 17:51:38 UTC
Jamyl Sarum has no divine right to rule, as no such thing as "divine right" even exists.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#71 - 2013-10-09 18:14:42 UTC
Good to know the Admiral has time from all his other pressing duties to be making a list and checking it twice, so the MIO knows who is naughty or nice!

Just as a sidebar: The MIO receives about 675,000 such lists from wannabe informants weekly, they are all properly placed in the circular file beside the desk of the public information officer.

Of course the grand Admiral with so much time on his hands thinks his name and capsuleer corp credentials will save his list from this ignominious fate I am sure. lol

But in case I am incorrect, as unlikely as that seems, I have the number one name that should be on the list of heretics that the MIO should investigate, Jamyl Sarum.

One of the most distinctive aspects of the succession process is that once a new Emperor has been chosen, the remaining four Heirs must commit ritual suicide. This is done to minimize the risk of conflict between the new Emperor and the old Privy Council; by removing all the old Heirs and replacing the Privy Council with those next in line within the five royal families, the slate is wiped clean.
If the MIO can just explain why she is not dead, according to our trafitions, or not a capsuleer or Merc clone, that would bring peace of mind to a majority of holders in the Amarr Empire. Do you have time to add her to the list grand admiral?

We have had another Emperor who thought himself divine in our past and the loudly pious supplicants of this reincarnation of that idiocy will likewise be reviled and purged from our history.True Amarr worship God, not those tasked with enforcing his will from the Imperial Throne, and if you do not know this, and hold it dear to your Amarrian heart, then add your own name after Jamyl Sarum's so it too can be struck from the Book of Records.

If you think your corp has the power to threaten those loyal to the cause of the True Amarr faith be forewarned we have well learned the lessons of 21930 AD and the conclusion of the last Amarr Civil War on this issue, and our well trained mercs are ready for any Imperial challenge that dares to rear its head. The Council of Apostles remain loyal to the true God of Amarr, now and forever.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#72 - 2013-10-09 18:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Filth: you are forgetting that the Empress has already been investigated by the Theology Council, and her claim to the throne was determined to be legitimate

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-10-09 18:23:24 UTC
It would be my understanding that mister... ahem, "Slaver Filth" doesn't recognise the authority of the Theology Council, as he claims to be a member of the Council of Apostles, who would (in his opinion) hold the only rightful claim to the ability to determine Imperial legitimacy.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#74 - 2013-10-09 18:23:51 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Filth: you are forgetting that the Empress has already been investigated by the Theology Council.
Did you read the report? Was it published? I for one would love to know the details of this miracle of reincarnation! This is a story we should be proclaiming from every pulpit. Unless of course it is a cover up put forth in our time of fear during the freed slave invasion that Jamyl Sarum somehow thwarted with a mystery weapon never seen or used again. I am an adjudicator as well as a religious True Amarr man, facts can not be dismissed with official hand wavium. The facts will tell the story, those who hide them hide from the truth.

Release the facts they should prove your case, if not why not?

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#75 - 2013-10-09 18:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver Filth
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
It would be my understanding that mister... ahem, "Slaver Filth" doesn't recognise the authority of the Theology Council, as he claims to be a member of the Council of Apostles, who would (in his opinion) hold the only rightful claim to the ability to determine Imperial legitimacy.
It is so interesting that someone so fascinated with my name would claim to be a member of an alliance named.... ahem "The Cursed Few" ........ a flower by any other name is just as fragrant.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-10-09 18:45:03 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
It is so interesting that someone so fascinated with my name would claim to be a member of an alliance named.... ahem "The Cursed Few" ........ a flower by any other name is just as fragrant.

Firstly, your name is a very silly name that convinces me you're some kind of not particularly elaborate troll (although your name is hardly the only aspect of your personality and behaviour that brings me to this conclusion). I'm not really fascinated with it, per se, as I couldn't really describe any aspect of your person to be "fascinating." It's just that I think it's extremely silly to adapt it as a personal appelation.

Secondly, I hold no (official) position in my current corporation, and the choice of which corporations we share friendships with or which alliances we join is not within my purview. The CEO, however, is a personal friend of mine. He invited me to join the corporation and has been consistently supportive of my career. I wouldn't betray the understanding between us by complaining about the name of the alliance he decided to enroll his corporation in even if I had one.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-10-09 18:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Slaver Filth wrote:
Did you read the report? Was it published? I for one would love to know the details of this miracle of reincarnation! This is a story we should be proclaiming from every pulpit. Unless of course it is a cover up put forth in our time of fear during the freed slave invasion that Jamyl Sarum somehow thwarted with a mystery weapon never seen or used again. I am an adjudicator as well as a religious True Amarr man, facts can not be dismissed with official hand wavium. The facts will tell the story, those who hide them hide from the truth.

So let me get this straight.

You're willing to believe in a God that defies all known laws of logic and physics, whom despite being omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent could not deliver its religious scriptures person but rather required a series of deeply unreliable human proxies to transcribe its wisdom in the neccessarily fallible written and spoken languages of humans, whose strictures placed upon a society that had barely crawled out of the Iron Age are supposed as holistic and applicable to today's modern civilizations as they were back then, whose very existence is intentionally veiled from the people who through its own decrees require its guidance the absolute most and whose chosen servants - through which it must for some unknown reason reconquer the very universe it created, possesses in totality and is omnipresent within - were gifted with esoteric and misinterpretable religious knowledge rather than an unlimited supply of warp cores and plasma cannons... but you're not willing to believe that one woman literally came back from the dead without recourse to cloning?

You know, I used to think that the Amarrians claiming she'd been miraculously returned to life were being unreasonable, but given the weight of other unlikely things that Amarrians believe without question on a daily basis, such specific and narrow skepticism suddenly seems incredibly arbitrary.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#78 - 2013-10-09 18:57:21 UTC
People believe the strangest things, Andreus. For example, I know a bunch of people who think that conquering people and forcibly changing their style of government is okay if it's done in the names of 'Liberty' and 'Democracy'.

A-mazing.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#79 - 2013-10-09 18:59:07 UTC
Religion is not an Amarrian invention. Who shall scape whipping?
Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#80 - 2013-10-09 19:05:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Slaver Filth wrote:
It is so interesting that someone so fascinated with my name would claim to be a member of an alliance named.... ahem "The Cursed Few" ........ a flower by any other name is just as fragrant.

Firstly, your name is a very silly name that convinces me you're some kind of not particularly elaborate troll (although your name is hardly the only aspect of your personality and behaviour that brings me to this conclusion). I'm not really fascinated with it, per se, as I couldn't really describe any aspect of your person to be "fascinating." It's just that I think it's extremely silly to adapt it as a personal appelation.

Secondly, I hold no (official) position in my current corporation, and the choice of which corporations we share friendships with or which alliances we join is not within my purview. The CEO, however, is a personal friend of mine. He invited me to join the corporation and has been consistently supportive of my career. I wouldn't betray the understanding between us by complaining about the name of the alliance he decided to enroll his corporation in even if I had one.
First your focus on your opinion of the meaning of my name is rather childish, especially from someone with a face covered by tribal tattoos. A poor choice in my estimation, but I will not stay fixated on it, because that too would be childish. Names or as I have explained titles or call signs mean different things to different people, trying to form the universe to our individual definition takes an arrogance that surpasses mine.

I much prefer to battle over ideas, then the constant childish refrain of "Yeah well you sound like a troll cause I do not agree with you" that so many in these forums retreat to when they run out of meaningful things to say. I suspect having seen some of your posts you always could do better, sadly you don't and that is surprising tbh.

Yes I know I have a record of colorful statements that dance up to and perhaps beyond the line of what you might consider good taste. I am unapologetically correct, a True Amarr man, with no need to be nice to you, the not yet conquered New Eden residents.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "