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[Rubicon] Audio changes feedback

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Author
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#201 - 2013-11-18 06:22:43 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Less kachink, more kachunk.


Most efficient description Ever. Big smile

And he's right, after intensively testing the sound for Golem and Kronos I can confirm that they could use a stronger impression of size. About the sync, I believe the sound is starting at the right time for these ships, but it is certainly too long beause it continues after the animation is finished. Perhaps due to inside stuff still moving around ! ^^

Also, maybe that's a stupid idea, but considering that the ship we are in is litteraly changing part of its shape... Have you ever considered trying to tweak the sound form your own marauder ship so that, somehow, by making it 100% audible even when zoomed out, it seems like the sound is all around the player ?

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Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#202 - 2013-11-18 08:31:07 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Less kachink, more kachunk.


Most efficient description Ever. Big smile

And he's right, after intensively testing the sound for Golem and Kronos I can confirm that they could use a stronger impression of size. About the sync, I believe the sound is starting at the right time for these ships, but it is certainly too long beause it continues after the animation is finished. Perhaps due to inside stuff still moving around ! ^^

Also, maybe that's a stupid idea, but considering that the ship we are in is litteraly changing part of its shape... Have you ever considered trying to tweak the sound form your own marauder ship so that, somehow, by making it 100% audible even when zoomed out, it seems like the sound is all around the player ?


If you are talking about, specifically, when going out of bastion mode, that the sound is retriggered, then I am aware of this.
If you are only talking about 2ms too late at the end or start of the animation and sync up, that's the part I can't do much about.
but the other thing makes it twice as long.

I thought this had been fixed though.
Damn graphics programmers. they are so cool they deserve hi5's, sometimes straight in the face :D (joke - no violence before 5pm at the office, I swear)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#203 - 2013-11-18 08:40:55 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Less kachink, more kachunk.


Most efficient description Ever. Big smile

And he's right, after intensively testing the sound for Golem and Kronos I can confirm that they could use a stronger impression of size. About the sync, I believe the sound is starting at the right time for these ships, but it is certainly too long beause it continues after the animation is finished. Perhaps due to inside stuff still moving around ! ^^

Also, maybe that's a stupid idea, but considering that the ship we are in is litteraly changing part of its shape... Have you ever considered trying to tweak the sound form your own marauder ship so that, somehow, by making it 100% audible even when zoomed out, it seems like the sound is all around the player ?


It will get a little technical here.
there are 2D and 3D sounds, one of the problems is to have the client and therefore the audio engine, understand what is coming from whatever source and how the sound will behave. 3D sounds have a source and an attenuation which it follows, 2D sounds will be heard straight up to anyone on the grid of where the sound was triggered, unless it's volume is muted.

One problem is to have separate namings for "my ship" and "your ship". It may seem kind of easy, but the engine is built differently, so I can't always know if it's my things or your things making sounds.
Meaning that if I could seperate like this, or have the client detect that bastion mode was activated within a certain range, then I could probably do something like that, but that way it is now, it would require such a hack of the audio engine that it would take a while to do, and the risk of distortion, layering of sounds and wrongful playback is too great.

This is basically what I have been trying to do with the gates, the cynos and the wormhole jumps, having the engine understand if it's someone else or if it's myself actually jumping. because by separating this, I can much better control amount of voices and the actual sounds.
with the wormholes and the cynos, I hacked something together, to get rid of the awful distortion happening when jumping a lot of people together, it kind of works - but that was hacked because we knew of serious issues, when several people were jumping at the same time, and the correct solution of knowing 1st or 3rd party jumping is infinitely better.

One thing that limits us, is that there is a difference between what server and client knows, the client usually only asks the server for information and gets it, the server does not provide it straight up or all of it. Meaning that there is a ton of information that the client does not have until a certain point where it knows "something" but not all.
this "not all" situation can be a huge headache.

Say, I would like cloaked ships to have a sound - (just a theory and experiment I had going) so that if within a very specific range of 100km or 50km of the ship and only within +- 1km, you would be able to hear that there was a cloaked ship nearby. It might work, it might also not work.
but this can't be done, because the client does simply not know the location of the cloaked ship, therefore I cannot place a sound on it.

There are hundreds of these small ideas, that we toss out every day, because of server / client issues like this.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#204 - 2013-11-18 09:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Thanks for these extensive answers ! As a very old game, it's perfectly understandable to run into technical issues constantly I guess, like for the POS code. That's sad because you seem to have very good ideas. Sound is an important part of the gameplay in some genres, FPSs for instance, and I believe that it could hold the same tactical value in Eve. This is already the case somehow by the way, with wormholes (and soon gates) sounds.

About the bastion desync (I do know that having the sound play when entering bastion AND exiting bastion is intended), I wasn't talking about a 2ms delay or something insignificant like this
It was something that struck me on my golem yesterday, when exiting bastion you see the "vents" closing, the sound starts at the same time, and when they are fully closed, which is very visually distinct, the sound still continues for about one second or two. Nothing important, but if I understood correctly what you said, it is a delay important enough so that you could perhaps fix it :)

Edit : Actually I noticed two things : First the sound is not the same when entering and exiting bastion. Two, maybe, on the kronos for instance, I'm focusing on one element that stops moving, but other parts of the ship are still moving, thus explaining why the sound is still running.

Another detail that may be more noticed by the playerbase however, is that now the warp sound is linked to your ship, it is no longer "everywhere", so that if you zoom out, the sound starts to fade, and suddenly stops. The curve is a bit too steep, the sound could use more attenuation before going from weak to completely silent. (Actually... maybe the warp sound was already fading with the camera moving away, but now it is very distinct. Too distinct imo)

Also, and sadly I didn't have the time to try this on many ships, I noticed that the Kronos for instance has an engine sound. For instance, if you have the camera near your engines during a warp, it slightly change the tone of the warp since this engine sound is playing at the same time than the warp sound. Same for out of warp, if you start to move you'll hear the engines, no problem here. But then, I tried an orca and, surprise, there was no noticeable engine sound, at all :(

Everything mentionned was noticed on yesterday's version of sisi.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

marVLs
#205 - 2013-11-18 09:48:08 UTC
Bastion sounds are really cool or even fantastic :]
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#206 - 2013-11-19 01:11:26 UTC
It's funny how I say the sounds are "small" and I get met with "oh they're fine" then someone posts the same thing and "they're right"... -_-
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#207 - 2013-11-19 01:36:26 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
It's funny how I say the sounds are "small" and I get met with "oh they're fine" then someone posts the same thing and "they're right"... -_-


Ah, it wasn't supposed to look like that.
I didn't say "oh they are fine" I asked what you expected :)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#208 - 2013-11-19 02:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: m3talc0re X
No no, not you :P

As for the sound effects... By slowing down the sound, I mean literally slowing it down. I don't have the tools (could probably find them) to do it or the actual sound effect file to work with, but you having it there.... Could you slow it down to like, half speed and stick on it on soundcloud? XD I wish I could find the sound effect that I hear in my head for it, but I think slowing down what's there now would probably be pretty close.

Think like, very heavy mechanical docking/clamping noises underwater... I'm trying to express it XD
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#209 - 2013-11-19 11:13:48 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
No no, not you :P

As for the sound effects... By slowing down the sound, I mean literally slowing it down. I don't have the tools (could probably find them) to do it or the actual sound effect file to work with, but you having it there.... Could you slow it down to like, half speed and stick on it on soundcloud? XD I wish I could find the sound effect that I hear in my head for it, but I think slowing down what's there now would probably be pretty close.

Think like, very heavy mechanical docking/clamping noises underwater... I'm trying to express it XD


I can't do it now.
but I can probably give them all a revamp at some point for a point release.

:)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#210 - 2013-11-19 14:06:56 UTC
Full Rubicon Audio Explanation Thing:

Character selection screen:
1. new theme music, by CCP RealX

2. Selection screen has been revamped graphically, so there are new hovering sounds and I put in some interaction booms whenever character is selected and when you enter the screen.

3. Aura says "connecting" whenever you choose your character.

4. "animating" of the characters possible for selection, has a brbrbrbrbrbr sound whenever it unfolds and some glitchy sounds.
I really like it myself.

The ISIS Ship tree:
1. There is a general theme of ambiance when entering.

2. each faction has it's own ambiance.
3. besides the usual Gallente, Minmatar, Caldari and Amarr ambiances, the special factions are made from combinations of these, just like the ships themselves are.

4. whenever a skill is trained and opening the tree, a sound will play to indicate what kind of progress this was. Basically in line with that the lines between the ships are highlighted.

5. when a ship is leveled up in mastery or reaches maximum mastery, audio indicators will also play.

6. when you exit the ship tree. there should be a flawless transition back into the game.

7. Hovering a ship will have the soundscape of that specific ship playing in the background.

The ships themselves:
1. all the new SOE ships, all side factions and so on, have added sounscapes for the ships.

2. Some of the ship soundcapes have been checked and changed for small clicks and errors. and their attenuation has been changed to only play much closer to the ship.

3. the MWD and AB sounds are made much clearer now when turned on. (The starting sound is a little too loud I can hear on TQ right now, so I will mix it again for one of the patches in the following days) We are still having some issues with the client figuring out which of them to play and which not to play , but this is something we are trying to fix.

4. The audio of the boosters themselves, have been changed to be louder when being behind the ship, but almost totally quiet when in front of it.

5. The bastion mode for marauders have been added. They will most likely be gone over a few times before they are final.

6. Dreadnaughts - Siege mode, also have a deploying undeploying sound.

7. triage mode, has a loop that has been revamped.

8. Rorqual - Industrial Core Deployment Compression Let's be super vulnurably to attacks mode - now also has a sound for deployment and undeployment.

9. Warping volume and sounds have been changed a bit to fit the new warp curve system, but I have already seen some indicators that the lowering of the volume, might not have worked - as some say it's louder now. which is not what is supposed to happen, as we are aiming for a smoother ride when warping.

Jump Gates:
1. Jump gates have new sounds in their surroundings.

2. Jump gates have sounds for the sparks and electrical fields around it when triggered by others, so it is again possible to gate camp and use audio as an indicator of when someone jumps or arrives at the gate you are at.
and if you don't like campers, you can just use it as a nice sound it makes when you are approaching and watch others jump.

Cynos:
1. we have hacked a solution to kind of fit the future vision of this, which means it will be a different sound for jumping yourself or seeing others jump.

2. Watching someone jump through a cyno from afar, should be experienced as a small electrical sound and then a sonic thud to indicate that something supernatural travel through space like just happened.

3. fixed the problem with sounds distorting when many players jumping at the same time.

Wormholes:
1. same as the cynos. just with wormhole sounds instead.

Stations:
1. The sound of undocking, which went missing in Odyssey is now back.

Dying:
1. the sound of dying is back in, fixed the problem with it being cut off during the death sequence.

New deployable structures:
1. Mobile Warp Disruption Bubble - should have a new sound, but this has been delayed until the point release.

2. all new structures have a new ambient sound around them.

3. all new activation modes of the deployables have an activation sound as well.

Suns and planets:
1. Suns now have a sound. One of them is missing, this will be in for the next patch.

Music:
New music in low-sec

Ghost sites:
new music to indicate the current level of threat.

And that's all I can remember straight off my head. if I missed something obvious, let me know and I'll add it.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#211 - 2013-11-19 14:22:03 UTC
Do you know about how many different soundscapes or music tracks or whatever exist for nullsec?

I keep getting the one that sounds like space cows. All the time.

If I had to give a more useful description, it's the one that sounds like it has badly-played string instruments in it. I guess it's supposed to be creepy.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#212 - 2013-11-19 14:24:41 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Do you know about how many different soundscapes or music tracks or whatever exist for nullsec?

I keep getting the one that sounds like space cows. All the time.

If I had to give a more useful description, it's the one that sounds like it has badly-played string instruments in it. I guess it's supposed to be creepy.


Don't know actually how many there are, but it's been said before that the variety especially in Null was too little.
I can check how many there are.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#213 - 2013-11-19 15:55:16 UTC
Thanks for the list, I discovered a few changes that weren't noticed / tested. Big smile

So... Eve definitely has sound ! And it plays a great part in the ambiance of the game.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#214 - 2013-11-19 17:51:54 UTC
The MWD sounds are broken.
the start and stop sounds for turning it on and off, are buggy.

This will be fixed. asap.
The wormholes will get a new attenuation, there was a problem with some merged files, so they shouldn't be as low as you experience them.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Lucius Avenus
Intransigent Ore
#215 - 2013-11-19 18:25:47 UTC
o/ pilots/CCP

I read thru the thread, (I see it is feedback on the test server),.. can I report here re: sound on TQ?

I patched-in Rubicon tonight, (no launcher problem for me); launched fine, but:


________________________________________
Sound in combat is fuzz and stutter - get a crashing echo/static sort of thing.

As a result the game lags with the audio enabled, but is fine with audio disabled. Everything else sounds fine and is uber smooth when not in combat.
________________________________________


Never had a problem, at all, with EVE...

Admittedly, I don't think I have the best system, but I ----------> this Noob ---------> is working on getting a better rig.

I really like most of the sound in EVE, and it's a pity to me to have to go deafo blappin.

(Hope I'm in the right place to post.)

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#216 - 2013-11-19 18:44:18 UTC
Lucius Avenus wrote:
o/ pilots/CCP

I read thru the thread, (I see it is feedback on the test server),.. can I report here re: sound on TQ?

I patched-in Rubicon tonight, (no launcher problem for me); launched fine, but:


________________________________________
Sound in combat is fuzz and stutter - get a crashing echo/static sort of thing.

As a result the game lags with the audio enabled, but is fine with audio disabled. Everything else sounds fine and is uber smooth when not in combat.
________________________________________


Never had a problem, at all, with EVE...

Admittedly, I don't think I have the best system, but I ----------> this Noob ---------> is working on getting a better rig.

I really like most of the sound in EVE, and it's a pity to me to have to go deafo blappin.

(Hope I'm in the right place to post.)



That's an unknown issue to me.
but we have a bug reported at the moment, about memory stacking on some systems. it could be that. but we haven't been able to reproduce the bug on the sound side of it here.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#217 - 2013-11-20 13:26:17 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Full Rubicon Audio Explanation Thing:

Stuff was said.


Wormholes are far too quiet. Far, far too quiet. in order to hear anything at all, I've had to fiddle with my volume settings. now when I, eg, swap ships at a POS, or enter warp while receiving for example, full triage reps in my Loki doing C5 sites, the sound spikes terribly. To do otherwise, i cannot hear the wormhole fire, which is kind of important.

I also do not know, and would LOVE to have it explained, whether wormhole sounds come under UI sounds, world sounds, or what, so I know what to change.

In fact, given EVE is the game of a million settings, like I can set a shortcut key for "Access nearest control tower", why can I not set sounds by type in near-infinite detail? Like,

- turrets {____x__}
- ambient ships sounds {_x_____}
- gate and wormhole sounds {_____x}
- EWAR sounds {__x____}
- UI sounds {__x____}
- that femalle voice what annoys my wife by telling her my ships are warping {X______}
etc etc

I have noticed when I turn off quieter turret sounds, at long range I hear only the low frequency sounds, Which is damn cool listening to the thuds of Nags ripping into Sleepers.
Lara Divinity
Pidgeon Cartel
#218 - 2013-11-20 14:40:26 UTC
my sound is just terryble in this latest rubicon patch i get static sounds and combat sounds up close is just awfull every missile i fire produces a crackling sound aswell as the enemies firing on me with there lasers i dint have all those issues in odissey..the sound was very smooth there no matter what situation i got into ...hopefully theres a fix for this soon
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#219 - 2013-11-20 15:36:46 UTC
Lara Divinity wrote:
my sound is just terryble in this latest rubicon patch i get static sounds and combat sounds up close is just awfull every missile i fire produces a crackling sound aswell as the enemies firing on me with there lasers i dint have all those issues in odissey..the sound was very smooth there no matter what situation i got into ...hopefully theres a fix for this soon


we haven't changed anything on the combat side. so this will take some investigation,.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#220 - 2013-11-20 15:39:58 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Full Rubicon Audio Explanation Thing:

Stuff was said.


Wormholes are far too quiet. Far, far too quiet. in order to hear anything at all, I've had to fiddle with my volume settings. now when I, eg, swap ships at a POS, or enter warp while receiving for example, full triage reps in my Loki doing C5 sites, the sound spikes terribly. To do otherwise, i cannot hear the wormhole fire, which is kind of important.

I also do not know, and would LOVE to have it explained, whether wormhole sounds come under UI sounds, world sounds, or what, so I know what to change.

In fact, given EVE is the game of a million settings, like I can set a shortcut key for "Access nearest control tower", why can I not set sounds by type in near-infinite detail? Like,

- turrets {____x__}
- ambient ships sounds {_x_____}
- gate and wormhole sounds {_____x}
- EWAR sounds {__x____}
- UI sounds {__x____}
- that femalle voice what annoys my wife by telling her my ships are warping {X______}
etc etc

I have noticed when I turn off quieter turret sounds, at long range I hear only the low frequency sounds, Which is damn cool listening to the thuds of Nags ripping into Sleepers.


you should read previous posts too. they mention exactly this ;)
the wormhole sound is fixed and will be going in for the next patch, hopefully friday. as I was just one hour late to catch the Thursday patching.

So you can turn your volumes down again after that. if they sound spiky though, then you have turned them way up.

if you are more than 6000m away from a WH, the sound will be different when others jump through.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.