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Abandoned POS's and Control Tower's are just space junk

Author
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#21 - 2013-10-13 16:49:58 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:

How long do you think it takes to remove an undefended large tower in high sec ?
Assume a small corp. 20 people in it at most. Be sure to consider what they want a high sec POS for, and what that implies about their trained skills.


Exactly as long as it takes anywhere else.


This is blatantly false.

In lowsec, nullsec, and WH's capitals are used to remove POS's because of their enormous EHP. An offline tower has 50 MILLION EHP. Assuming 20 people in BS's doing 1k dps, it would take them 40+ minutes to take down the POS. Add to this the fact there is very little reward in doing this.

A hacking mechanic to remove towers is just fine, and absolutely should be implemented!

However, it needs several caveats:

1.) Hacking takes time: Say 20 minutes of sitting there to complete the minigame.
2.) Hacking is an aggressive action: Unless you are at war with the owning corp, hack a tower in lowsec and you go suspect. Hack a tower in highsec, you go criminal! This adds a wardec "warning" to anyone with offline towers in highsec.
3.) If there is stront in the stront bay (i.e. the tower was online and went offline), then successfully hacking the tower causes it to go through an RF period based on the amount of stront in the bay. Hence, a 1.5 day wait to claim the tower against someone who's prepared (in any sec status).

With these caveats, hacking a tower anywhere becomes non-trivial, but worthwhile. And everyone/anyone can defend against it if they desire.
Boomer Budd Marcos
Hell Why Not
#22 - 2013-10-22 12:23:22 UTC
In addition to my original statement - I had an after thought about the "Starbase Charters" - An electronic charter code issued by the _________ Federation which permits the bearer to use a starbase around a moon in Federation sovereign space for 1 hour. The code is stored on tamperproof chips which must be inserted into the starbase control tower.
How can they keep the control towers up without these ? So if no-one has been inserting these than why are the abandoned towers still up ? and why do we have to wardec them when they are in violation of the said space ??
Lucius Saturninus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-12-01 04:27:05 UTC
OK, new thought. What if in addition to the Fuel and Strontium Bays in a POS they add Barracks or Crew Quarters? Then you have to keep it staffed with Janitors, Scientists and Marines or the POS and its Array’s will begin to break down and take damage over time? As long as it’s online and staffed initially then you don’t have to keep adding staff. But if goes off line, then they begin dying, or let’s say just leavingTwisted. Once they are gone then it’s only a matter of time before the Arrays and then POS becomes Space Dust. Unless it gets rep’d or put back online and then restaffed.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#24 - 2013-12-01 05:58:45 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
been suggested numerous times.

the best idea is to make it a hacking mini game. if a tower goes offline and is down for a certain amount of time, we can hack it, change ownership, insert fuel and bring it up as our own. or unanchor and sell.


maybe a slightly harder/bigger hacking map a-kin to the ghost site hacking minigame and perhaps 30 days after it was offlined it can be hacked. same goes for the moduals/hangers/silos connected to it.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#25 - 2013-12-01 06:47:45 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Just shoot it. No game change is needed because you're too lazy to spend an hour to secure your moon.


It'd be much more interesting if abandoned POS's were salvageable somehow rather than being forced to bash them (something that is the opposite of interesting). I don't get why anyone would respond the way you just did, but that's forums for you...
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-12-01 08:13:12 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Assuming 20 people in BS's doing 1k dps, it would take them 40+ minutes to take down the POS.

40+ MINUTES?!?! BUT MY ISK/HOUR!!!! THE HUMANITY!!!!!
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-12-01 08:15:03 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
It'd be much more interesting if abandoned POS's were salvageable somehow rather than being forced to bash them (something that is the opposite of interesting)


This. IMHO after a tower has had no fuel for a week it should lose the ability to go into reinforce and lose its bubble and everything. Then, they should either be able to be salvaged by some kind of large scale salvage ship (like a bigger noctis designed for POS reclamation) or should be able to be hacked. Hacking gives control of the tower, Salvaging gives salvage and modules (but not all of them). Ideally, hack tower, remove everything, salvage tower for salvage, profit.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#28 - 2013-12-01 08:34:47 UTC
Gigan Amilupar wrote:
This. IMHO after a tower has had no fuel for a week it should lose the ability to go into reinforce and lose its bubble and everything.


I'll raise you that, and suggest that those things should happen immediately, as soon as it runs out of fuel.

Oh, wait...


Quote:
Ideally, hack tower, remove everything, salvage tower for salvage, profit.


Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#29 - 2013-12-01 08:35:48 UTC
Since I made this thread before I'm just going to leave this here.

I support this.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-12-01 09:34:07 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.


There is nothing wrong with shooting towers, but it cannot hurt to have more mechanics in game for POS removal/reclamation then just hitting F1 in a pulse oracle and going AFK. That's all I'm saying.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#31 - 2013-12-01 09:59:08 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.


Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...
Tabris Katz
The Forgotten Children
#32 - 2013-12-01 12:35:12 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.


Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...


I think (and very well could be wrong) that people think it's to expensive to wardec a high sec corp simply to kill and an abandoned tower and the size of the fleet you would need wouldn't be worth it. On a similar note, could this be a reason for creating/using Marauders with bastion modules? Taking down high sec posses that is.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#33 - 2013-12-01 19:21:41 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
been suggested numerous times.

the best idea is to make it a hacking mini game. if a tower goes offline and is down for a certain amount of time, we can hack it, change ownership, insert fuel and bring it up as our own. or unanchor and sell.

+1

also abandoned pos's srsly need to have something done about em. either let us steal it or disappear after a long while

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#34 - 2013-12-01 19:50:47 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.


Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...


If you want something that someone else has, why aren't you willing to fight for it?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#35 - 2013-12-01 20:35:27 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:

Your other questions are irrelevant; I don't care how many of them there are, or what they want it for; their financial issues are not mine. If they can't make a return on bashing someone else's POS, then obviously they shouldn't be bashing it. Their skill training, or lack thereof, is also not my issue.


If someone can't be bothered to defend their POS, why should I be bothered to shoot it? They made the first mistake, now they should lose their tower for their incompetence. No second chances. This is EVE after all, and since when does EVE grant anyone a second chance? (Or a first chance, in some cases.)

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#36 - 2013-12-01 20:40:02 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
3.) If there is stront in the stront bay (i.e. the tower was online and went offline), then successfully hacking the tower causes it to go through an RF period based on the amount of stront in the bay. Hence, a 1.5 day wait to claim the tower against someone who's prepared (in any sec status).


I have a problem with the RF timer part of your post (the rest is reasonable) for two reasons

1: This mechanic would be most useful in WH space, where dead sticks are present in every system I've ever visited, and a day and a half is too long, the WH connecting me to my target tower would close in that time.

2: It gives the defenders significant time to recover their tower. 20 minutes is fine, but a day and a half? Before a tower goes offline it sends a spam of notifications out crying for fuel. If the owner willingly ignores those mails, and hasn't gone back to fuel said tower in the time since it's gone offline they missed their chance to save their stuff.



Making the hacker suspect and requiring a short period of time to make sure risk is involved completely make sense though, so you get my like.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#37 - 2013-12-01 20:43:59 UTC
Sal Landry wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Assuming 20 people in BS's doing 1k dps, it would take them 40+ minutes to take down the POS.

40+ MINUTES?!?! BUT MY ISK/HOUR!!!! THE HUMANITY!!!!!


Your sarcasm is noted.

Not all corps have the numbers or skills to bash a tower with such speed, and since the POS's owner clearly abandoned their tower there should be an easy way to relieve them of their unwanted property.

After all, this is EVE, and relieving people of their stuffs is our primary activity *curls mustache mischievously*

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#38 - 2013-12-01 20:46:17 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.


Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...


Because structure bashing benefits them due to their superior numbers. They can bash towers quickly and defend friendly towers that are being bashed by blobbing the bashers.

Waffles, being related to PL, will, inevitably, be highly resistant to anything that hurts their blob-all-the-capitals playstyle.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Minor Dirt
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-12-01 21:22:30 UTC
I'm assuming it isn't corp related more ownership related. How many of the people adamantly against this idea have a high sec POS that they don't want to keep continually active but will defend if it is attacked? The the question becomes, why should they be able to keep a piece of space junk anchored when they aren't willing to expend the effort to fuel it?
Just asking Smile
Karma Codolle
Chimera Research and Development
#40 - 2013-12-01 21:26:18 UTC
Having to shoot abandoned pos's has to be the worst game mechanic ever.


I honestly don't get that logic.

Especially when so many people complain about shooting active structures.

It's abandoned why should you spend hours of your play time removing something from players that aren't playing the game anymore?

Honestly i'd take it one step further.

You can hack and steal abandoned pos's that go offline, but as well, if you can push a pos into structure you have the option to steal that as well if the defending side isn't going to defend it it's there loss.

Let it be done by only those with hacking and analyzer V. Give some commitment and stop every little toon from being able to.
After all complex structure should have high skills to get past it's firewall

It would dramatically add to the risk of owning faction towers, as well as entice pilots to fight over them to steal them and reap the rewards.

I'd just imagine how much better SOV grinding would be. Let the victors steal the opposing sides infrastructure down to every little pos if they aren't going to defend.

No more "theres a pos on every moon, we give up, have fun" Let us enrich our war chests if the opposition isn't going to bother to fight

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