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Paying Concord to Gank Scammer

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#41 - 2013-10-03 16:49:19 UTC
My Dream wrote:
Elliavir wrote:
My Dream wrote:
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback



Wardecs.

Bounties.

Ganking them yourself.

Hiring merc corps.


1st there normally alts in npc corps

2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect

3rd see above

4 nd
see above again =p

and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet


stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick

Not CCPs and their stick is the only one that counts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
My Dream
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-10-03 16:52:37 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:
Elliavir wrote:
My Dream wrote:
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback



Wardecs.

Bounties.

Ganking them yourself.

Hiring merc corps.


1st there normally alts in npc corps

2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect

3rd see above

4 nd
see above again =p

and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet


stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick

Not CCPs and their stick is the only one that counts.


not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#43 - 2013-10-03 16:56:36 UTC
Did someone not get their doubled ISK?

Was that buy order for that too good to be true price not true?

Did you wanted all their stuffs for 1 trit?

If that happened I feel bad for you son, but ive got 99 problems but a scam aint one.

In the future, if you think something is a scam, use my trusted third party services. Ill take and hold your ISK, and then thouroughly investigate the 'scam' using my patented and proprietary techniques, and only if my exacting criteria are met will I initiate the transaction, and return the goods to you via contract with the cost of my 5% commission. I have many many satisfied customers.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#44 - 2013-10-03 16:57:01 UTC
My Dream wrote:
not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet



Oh, oh, oh, I know the answer here.

Stop giving them ISK.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-10-03 16:57:05 UTC
By the same standard, begging is also risk-free.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#46 - 2013-10-03 16:57:32 UTC
My Dream wrote:

not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet

Firstly it's not a faucet, scamming generates no new isk, it's just a transfer of funds. Secondly the tools are already there, you just refuse to see or use them inventively.

Now tell us again why a scammer should be punished for taking advantage of another players greed and ignorance, by using the existing mechanics and tools in an inventive manner?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#47 - 2013-10-03 16:58:28 UTC
My Dream wrote:
Elliavir wrote:
My Dream wrote:
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback



Wardecs.

Bounties.

Ganking them yourself.

Hiring merc corps.


1st there normally alts in npc corps

2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect

3rd see above

4 nd
see above again =p

and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet


stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick


CONCORD doesn't protect ANYBODY. Please see some threads from high-sec miners if you don't agree.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#48 - 2013-10-03 16:59:49 UTC
Capsuleers (players) setting CONCORD (godmode NPCs) upon one another? For something as vague as a scam? Which is indistinguishable from a normal contract or trade where the code is concerned?

IDDQD no thanks!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#49 - 2013-10-03 17:02:47 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
IDDQD

+1 for the cheat code

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
My Dream
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-10-03 17:17:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:

not asking for GM intervention asking for a tool within the convines of the game that will hurt those who have a risk free money faucet

Firstly it's not a faucet, scamming generates no new isk, it's just a transfer of funds. Secondly the tools are already there, you just refuse to see or use them inventively.

Now tell us again why a scammer should be punished for taking advantage of another players greed and ignorance, by using the existing mechanics and tools in an inventive manner?


nm matter how inventive my imagination is at using the provided systems there is no way to prevent him him gaining from un ethical isk making his scammed isk will be far off on his alt

he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .

you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act

its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye
fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
Lady Areola Fappington
#51 - 2013-10-03 17:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
CCP really needs to implement a new skill for avoiding scams. We can call it "Critical Thinking", give it a x24 training multiplier, and have it use Charisma and Memory for attributes. Base score, no implants figured in.

At level 5, it will prevent you from completing any transaction that may result in being scammed. Make it so it autotrains to 5 after being scammed twice, and remove the ability to cancel it out of the queue. Make sure this happens on all the player's alts, just to make sure.


Maybe, at that point, people will finally stop falling for scams.


My Dream wrote:

he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .





You may or may not have noticed the "submarine physics" EVE uses instead of "realistic" physics. Included in that is the ability to travel faster than light, move faster than light, and tunnel through planets at FTL speeds with nary a scratch on spaceship, or planetary body. What I'm getting at here is, EVE is far from being realistic. "Unethical" play is also very "efficient" play to get ISK. Plz train critical thinking to 5 then login again.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#52 - 2013-10-03 17:24:11 UTC
My Dream wrote:
[ ... snip ... the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .

... snip ... any civilised society ... snip ...


You presume EVE is simulating Europe or something... EVE is more like Somalia or someplace else where governmental authority has broken down or is minimal and you rely on your own wits / hired thugs / joining into a larger group to protect your interests.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#53 - 2013-10-03 17:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
My Dream wrote:
the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .



And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes.

You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force.


Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#54 - 2013-10-03 17:28:39 UTC
My Dream wrote:
we know CCP is very reluctant to interfere in this glorious sandbox we have here through GM action action so why dont they put in a system where we can report the scam to concord for a modest fee

Concord would seek out and shoot the offenders and confiscate the scammed isk as evidence (podding would be preffered)
this way there would be in game roleplayey consquences to scamming instead of it being totally risk free as it is

it would not break the taboo of non inteferance with the sandbox but would enable payback in a game way

Shocked
Lol

Remove standings and insurance.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#55 - 2013-10-03 17:34:45 UTC
Op, there is no way to 'punish' scammers. They are, for the most part, on alts that do not ever undock. That's just the way it is and will be. Even local spam bots, extensively documented by none other than Chribba, barely draw a glance from CCP. On the other hand, 99% of scams are easily spotted and all are avoidable.

The only actual resolution would be to get rid of alts (not going to happen - the flood of tears would send Iceland to the bottom of the sea) and to get rid of second accounts (I doubt that would even be possible, and CCP certainly would not want to have fewer subs).

Hiding behind alts and such is the weakest part of the Eve immersion, but it's here to stay. If you were scammed, just accept your loss and move on. Think of it like parking tickets. They are generally just a gotcha and overly costly for even a minor infraction, but they can be avoided rather easily.

No good deed goes unpunished
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2013-10-03 17:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
My Dream wrote:

nm matter how inventive my imagination is at using the provided systems there is no way to prevent him him gaining from un ethical isk making his scammed isk will be far off on his alt
Yes there is, it's called don't give them isk by not being a dumb victim.

Quote:
he should be punished because he has gained isk in an unethical way if the game is going to pride its self on being a realistic sandbox that does not equal chaoes . the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .
Bad comparison, Earth doesn't have immortals running around in vehicles armed with weapons that can throw stuff the size of volkswagens over 100km. Scamming is also a viable business practice on Earth, we call it banking and politics, and people who succeed in them get rewarded.

Quote:
you cant have it one way and not another if your going to create a game to be as realistic as possible . eve in many ways is pretty much a simulator you gotta have realistic punishment to for misbehavour and in any civilised society be it virtual scamming is a unethical act
That's where you're going wrong in your assumptions, Eve is anything but civilised

Quote:
its unbalanced that there is indeed tools to scam but none to protect yourself apart from your own keen eye
fairs fair the tools are there to scam wheres mine to get payback
The tools aren't there specifically for scammers they're there for everybody, they've just figured out how to use them to deprive the greedy and ignorant of their possessions.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
My Dream
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-10-03 17:37:14 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
My Dream wrote:
the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .



And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes.

You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force.


Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his.



i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#58 - 2013-10-03 17:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
My Dream wrote:
i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet



Shoot them
Scam them
Steal from them

Ruin their next scam
and so on

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#59 - 2013-10-03 17:41:31 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
My Dream wrote:
i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet



Shoot them
Scam them
Steal from them

:effort:

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lady Areola Fappington
#60 - 2013-10-03 17:41:56 UTC
My Dream wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
My Dream wrote:
the planet earth is argueably just a massiive sandbox but it has rules of law to maintain peace and order try scamm on the planet earth as a business you ill get fined by a regulater or worse case thrown in jail .



And those rules are made and enforced by people using force or the threat of force. Not by magical space pixies shooting nukes.

You are free to declare that scamming is against the rules in EVE, and then enforce your rule using force or the threat of force.


Stop asking the sand in the box to animate and smack Billy just because he knocked down your castle, just go over yourself and knock down his.



i like your post and it has alot of truth but how does a simple individual enforce there will and how do i do it with noway to really hurt them where it counts in the wallet



Here's a way. I used to do this back in my anti-scammer days.

Go find the item the scammer is using for his margin scam. Don't buy it from the scammer, of course. Use THAT to attempt to fill the obviously margin-traded buy orders the scammer posted.


I got...quite a few rage-posts out of that.



You can also put your own items up for sale at a better price, or put in a better buy order than the scammers offer (I recommend using margin trading for that).



See, THREE quick ways to "hurt them in the wallet" if you just put in the ~effort~.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide