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[Rubicon] Interceptors

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Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#141 - 2013-10-03 07:11:02 UTC
Give them something resembling an actual lock range, for heaven's sake... Evil
Azula Kishtar
Lonely among the Stars
#142 - 2013-10-03 07:20:39 UTC
The new Malediction looks great. I'll very much fly it with joy.

Crusader needed that fitting buff. The lack of a third mid still hurts it. I'm not of the opinion that every ship needs to be able to fit prop mod plus full tackle, but in case of the Crusader it kinda does hurt a lot.


Crow will work very, very well as the new fleet Ceptor. It has (for Interceptor standards) very good lock range, four mids and can even hit with the missiles at great ranges. It is basically what you'd expect from a T2 Condor. Did i mention i hate Condors?

I'm not sure what to think about the Raptor. Giving it enough PG to actually possibly be able to fit Rails on a not completly gimped fit was needed of course. I really think you should give it the fourth mid the Crow has though.



Taranis remains great. The warp changes alone ensure this ship got buffed even in Low despite the EHP loss.

Again, i'm not sure what to think of the Ares. Not a fan of the split weapon bonus at all. I'd favour a tracking bonus.


Claw suffers from the exact same thing as the Crusader.

Stiletto remains good, though is now probably pretty much overshadowed by the Crow.


All in all, warp changes and bubble immunity mean all of these ships are better off as a net result. However, i think the inter-class balance could have been better.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#143 - 2013-10-03 07:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Hey you know I always complain at first iteration !

So....

This time I wont. Good job Blink

Edit :
Oh wait I found something :
The shield bonus on the raptor is USELESS.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#144 - 2013-10-03 07:58:18 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
make them able to tackle supers.


Pff, half-measures.

All ships should be able to tackle supercaps. No combat ship should have penalty-free, built-in WCS. This isn't 2006 and we're not flying stabbabonds any more.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-10-03 08:13:11 UTC
I'm not a fan of the Ares as a missile platform, but if that's the direction you're pushing them in then....ok. Fine. But split bonuses and only 2 hardpoints for each is pretty lacking. Either go all-in on the missiles, add a third missile hardpoint and take away the hybrid bonus, or add a missile and turret hardpoint option in a Scythe Fleet Issue style so we can at least choose to specialise one way or the other. As it is we have a theme of 'Roden Shipyards favour missiles, but they're not very good at it'.

(Preferred option: Drop the Roden = Missiles angle completely and give them a proper Gallente theme to work with)

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#146 - 2013-10-03 08:36:28 UTC
These changes look pretty good although there are a few things that stand out to me.

The Claw and the Crusader still lack a third mid-slot. The option to fit Dual-Propulsion is the main reason why the Taranis is still the only current "combat" viable Interceptor. I think the Claw & The Crusader could probably use some adjustments to the fitting slots. The Crusader also lacks a utility high-slot which really hurts its ability as a close range laser platform. And the Imperial Navy Slicer performs better than it in direct combat for anyone looking for a ship to engage outside of scram range. Although I'm sure some people will complain of 'sameness', Adapting the slot layouts to be similar to the Taranis would probably make them all more viable while still retaining different racial feel between them.

What I'd recommend doing;
Crusader: Remove a Turret Slot. Change the 5% laser damage bonus to 10% replacing the Cap bonus. Add 5m3 drone bay and bandwidth. (This makes up for the DPS loss, it will suffer slightly more cap consumption due to shooting 3 effective turrets than the 2 (4 x0.5) but I think that's a fair trade-off. Move a Low-Slot to a Mid- Slot. (Similar to what happened with the Coercer). This will give it the option of the utility high-slot, and better mid-slot options such as dual-prop or a combination of tackle mods. The Crusader lacks the CPU required to fit multiple damage mods, the Malediction is the better dedicated tackler, and the Slicer is the better ranged kiter so it cannot really use that low-slot for much.

Claw: Low-slot to Mid-slot.


The Ares bonus still feels like garbage. Give back the tracking bonus it's much more useful than the missile bonus.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Luscius Uta
#147 - 2013-10-03 08:40:58 UTC
The good:

-finally this class is going to be able to actually "intercept" other ships, due to changes to warp acceleration
-built-in interdiction nullifier (on a related note, I think we won't wait long 'till someone loses an interceptor with a bunch of expensive blueprints somwhere in 0.0)


The bad:

-I'm gonna be a millionth person in this thread to say that Interceptors need more lock range (aside from Caldari ones). What's the point of having longer warp disruptor range than your actual lock range??

-Raptor gaining resist bonus but not having enough midslots to actually make use of it. Even with the Powergrid boost and MAPC, you probably won't be able to fit a MSE without degrading to Electron blasters/75mm Rails.

-Ares having a bonus to missiles to silly. Missiles are not part of Gallente philosophy (yes, that means I would remove the missile bonus from Eris and Lachesis as well). I would give it a 20-25 m^3 drone bay and replace missile bonus with some kind of drone-related bonus, while nerfing the Small Hybrid Turret damage bonus to 5% per level. The old boring 10% to drone hitpoints and damage would be OP on such a small ship, but a bonus to drone microwarpdrive speed should fit well within its designed purpose.


The ugly:

Yes Fozzie, I'm looking at you Twisted

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Xio Zheng
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2013-10-03 08:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Xio Zheng
did some number crunching on the maladiction. It is late, so there may be errors. So far ive got this:

Highs
3x Light Missile Launcher II

Mids
Warp Disruptor II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Gistii B-type 1mn microwarpdrive

Lows
2x Overdrive injector II
1x nano II
1x Ballistic Control System II

Rigs
1x Ionic Field Projector
1x Bay Loading Accelerator

fits with the boost to CPU

All Skills V, no booster, no implants
Speed : 5183.46 m/s
Lock range : 42.98 km
DPS : 95.1 at 42.2 with navy
116.12 at 31.6 with fury
83.09 at 21.1 with precision
point : 30km
TP : 45 km
sig rad : 68 m
cap stable

The Boost to CPU, the change in slot layout, change to frigate bonus, and the increase in base lock range all contribute to more then doubling the dps of this ship. Very good CCP, very good. Ive been flying this thing with 44 dps for ages, death by a thousand cuts and all, now it has some ok teeth.
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#149 - 2013-10-03 09:00:11 UTC  |  Edited by: SubStandard Rin
Goldensaver wrote:
Nice to see the EHP nerf is less than was worried. On to read more.

The role bonuses: Fantastic. Well deserved, glad to see these will be able to hold point like the T1's at least.

Would it hurt too much to add a slot or two to the class, mostly mid slots to make it more realistic to fit full tackle and *maybe* a tank as well? 3 mid slots should be the bare minimum on an Interceptor. Also, scan res would be nice. The Slasher has more than the Stiletto. As far as fast tackle, they're still not that great compared to the T1.




I think 3 mids is the golden standard for all interceptors
you basicly need Point,Web,Prop and thats 3 mids everything else and you have to reduce your efficiency not to mention if you got less then 4 mids your armortanked (if any tank what so ever) witch means your even slower.

I think interceptors should be split in to two sub types instead:

Light inteceptor (speedy, fast aligning, warp faster, weaker tank, low dps)

Heavy interceptors ( slower, slower align, higher dps, alot better tank).

and from my opinion the cepter is a pointer and holder for your fleet not something meant for soloing (i don't want to limit this role but it shouldn't be mainly planed for).



so please tinker more with the 2mids ones make the heavy interceptors give them one extra mid and make them align slower and slower speed. that would be fine by me.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#150 - 2013-10-03 09:11:44 UTC
What the hell?

CCP: Raptor is broken so... we're gonna give its bonuses to the Crow. And a fourth midslot!

Leave the Crow as is, it is fine. Give the fourth med slot to the Raptor.

REMOVE INTERDICTION NULLIFIER BONUS FROM ALL FRIGATES
Naomi Anthar
#151 - 2013-10-03 09:31:56 UTC
I'm really scared right now. I think that now when CCP will move to succubus - they will tell us that it just needs some fittings (when it needs massive speed boost to be faster than damn cruisers at least) , where it needs to move on high to low or med (why the hell you need 2 utility highs on frigate ship that is not bonused for neuts or nos ?? WTF).

Really that is ridiculous. If ship is broken like Crusader or Claw you need to rework it, throwing around some PWG and CPU is lazy way that solves nothing.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#152 - 2013-10-03 09:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Fozzie .. it would be nice if the taranis and ares actually had some decent armour tank instead being all hull and nothing else,,,
perhaps speed rigs could also switch its penalty from losing armour bad thing for armour frigs .. to losing cargobay like overdrive injectors do???

armour inties are at a massive disadvantage to try and tank besides the speed and agility loss the lack of pg doesn't help either

Also please reduce pg and cpu use of nos and increase fittings please hard to plate and use nos ... impossible to dual prop aswell

Also please drop their sig radius a couple of points too please would really help with their tanking especially shield tanked inties like the raptor will be much bigger with extenders..

also have you checked the scan res on these with the T1 attack frigs at all?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kazume Nakuo
Magister Mortalis.
#153 - 2013-10-03 09:47:59 UTC
The Lobsters wrote:
Crusader + Claw.

Combat interceptors.

Two mids.

We had no reason to fly them before, especial with the buffed Executioner and Slasher.

What reason do we have for flying them now.

Amarr and Minmatar fleet interceptors make better combat interceptors than the combat interceptors.

No change.


This ... 3rd mid pls!
Vdr
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#154 - 2013-10-03 09:55:18 UTC
** Copy Paste

While i like the new changes unless CCP`s intent is to almost kill off nullsec mining Grav sites will have to go back into scanned sigs.
There is no way that a hulk can warp out before a interceptor lands on grid even in an ideal situation.

How will this be countered?
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#155 - 2013-10-03 10:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
all you people saying the bubble immunity is useless have never scouted for a 0.0 fleet, or have done it badly

if your out gate is not in scan range you can't warp to it for fear of landing in a bubble at 0 with 5 dramiels, which leads to you having to bounce, which adds loads of time to your scouting of that system. that's assuming there is even a celestial in scan range of the out gate, if there isnt you have to pick a celestial without a gate and a weird warp in vector and hope for the best

and then there's the whole jumping into a system covered in bubbles 200km from the gate in every direction, and wasting precious time burning out of them while the miners safe up

this role bonus is incredibly good and anyone who says otherwise probably doesn't use interceptors for their intended role, or just doesn't do it well

secondly stop fighting over the ares weapon systems. it has double bonus to both missiles and guns (10% to each instead of 5%) so its no different than the other tackle ceptors other than the fact that it can fit 2 guns 1 missile and have by far the best dps of any of them. any of you who think this is the same as "split weapons" should be banned from posting in this and all future topics on the subject of balance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#156 - 2013-10-03 10:03:45 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, I'm not going to be posting a lot in these threads between now and Monday, when these changes hit sisi. Just want to reassure you all that I'm still going to be reading every post in this thread and that I appreciate the feedback.


Have a good time, drink loads and all that.

Then come back and revise these ^^

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#157 - 2013-10-03 10:04:43 UTC
Teledhil Audeles wrote:
What about other ships used as interceptors like the Dramiel? Any plans on giving those ships the same bubble inmunity?



They are used as makeshift interceptors, but Dramie, Daredevil, Firetail, Hookbil, Slicer, etc. are regular T1 Frigs and not interceptors. No immunity to anything required.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#158 - 2013-10-03 11:03:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

CLAW - Ahh the Claw. We're giving this old stalwart a hand up in a few ways. Splitting the damage bonus into two provides just over 4% more damage at max skills. The lower mass helps both speed and agility. Extra fitting allows for better tanking or effective artillery fits. And we've finally fixed the lock range.

Minmatar Frigate Bonuses:
5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level (split between frigate and interceptor skills)
7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level (moved from interceptor skill)

Interceptors Bonuses:
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
5% Small Projectile Turret Damage per level (split between frigate and interceptor skills)

Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction

Slot layout: 4H, 2M, 4L; 3 turrets, 1(-1) launchers
Fittings: 45(+5) PWG, 125(+25) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 325(-27) / 500(+113) / 475(-18)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 285(+4.75) / 213.75s (+2.8) / 1.33
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 475 / 3(-0.09) / 1100000(-26000) / 4.57s(-0.25)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 22.5km(+5) / 1000 / 5(+1)
Sensor strength: 9(+1) Ladar
Signature radius: 30
Cargo Capacity: 94(-26)


I firmly believe that the claw would strongly profit from a hislot being moved to the midrack. Armorceptors are meh, 4-2-4 will just result in one more scram-AB-kiter :(

Cmon, give it the option to put an MSE on there, so it's not just a failceptor.
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#159 - 2013-10-03 11:19:34 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
I cannot +1 that. I'm deeply disapointed.

Crusader NEEDS 3RD MID .

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

What kind of tackler it is that cannot fit sensor booster or web ? I dunno how you do this ...

I suggest either take turret and swap cap bonus for another damage, or take low and move to mid.

I Beg you for ALL THAT IS SACRED WE NEED ONE ADVANCED FRIGATE WITH LASERS WITH 3 MIDS.

Yes you got it no frigate above base t1 level got 3 mids.

Slicer - 2 mids, Retribution - 2 mids, Crusader - 2 mids.

I BEG YOU.


This, unless you do something useful with the 'sader it will never be used again.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-10-03 11:50:15 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
make them able to tackle supers.


Pff, half-measures.

All ships should be able to tackle supercaps. No combat ship should have penalty-free, built-in WCS. This isn't 2006 and we're not flying stabbabonds any more.


I don't disagree, but I think the river of tears that would result from such a change means we should shoot for something more palatable.