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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon] Interceptors

First post
Author
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#721 - 2013-11-08 00:44:13 UTC
marlinspike von Crendraven wrote:
Bibosikus wrote:
The only drawback to the inty buff is that I'll have about 14 seconds in each system down the Deklein pipe to type "Stuff You Goons!" in local before deploying my cloaky AFK cyno in A4L..

Ctrl C & Ctrl V Blink


Ctrl+Up Arrow also works.
Feffri
Did he say Jump
Dock Workers
#722 - 2013-11-08 22:30:45 UTC
i seriously don't see how the fleet tackler can do the job of it's name. With armageddons in every fleet with 37.5 heavy neut ability no fleet tackle can stay on the field. In reality the keres is going to be everyone's fleet tackler. Either fleet tackle inties need to have point range past geddon heavy neut range or should be re-purposed.
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#723 - 2013-11-08 22:38:52 UTC
So here's a story that is relevant to the upcoming interceptor changes.

So i was setup on a gate with a rapier 5x remote sensor boosted for scan res.......and a cynabal came through the gate....and he warped before I could target him....because I didn't have a bubble. After a bit of headscratching i realized he got away due to latency, I was in Florida on a Brighthouse 40meg connection and should have had a ping somewhere in the 70-100 range to TQ(I honestly never pinged it to be sure and I don't live there anymore). So in theory I were closer to TQ like London i would have made the tackle.

This is entirely relevant to the interceptor change as there will be no way for non-ultralow ping live next to server players to conventionally tackle the new interceptors after coming through a gate, since by the time your client has detected that they've decloaked they will be in warp. The best chance would be to have disco battleships setup around the stargate and pop them as they decloak.

Short of completely rebalancing the align speed and targeting system to be much slower in order to function "equally "with the average latency of the TQ population the only other option would be some form of interdiction nullifier nullifier, such as a special warp disruption probe for interdictors and consumeable script for hictors.

For proof of concept - to keep it balanced could make it have no effect on non-interdiction nullified ships.
Dictors
Interdiction nullifier nullifier probe - 3x Size of a standard warp disruption probe (so can only load 1 at a time) Higher cost, shorter bubble duration.

Hictor
Interdiction nullifier nullifier script - Some form of expendability to reduce spam. Short bubble duration 20s-60s.

Anyway just my thoughts to keep these things inline, unless you're planning on un-counterable 50man interceptor gangs that travel 5 systems a minute lagging the server then go right ahead.
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#724 - 2013-11-09 06:30:09 UTC
Overall, really like the interceptor changes as this should help balance the risk/reward in null by making it easier to catch things (currently, there is too little risk IMO).

A lot of people feel that the interdiction nullification is too OP though, and I agree with that. Why? Because you can have fleets of inexpensive ships that can do significant damage and are almost impossible to catch/kill.

Suggestion - don't allow both damage AND interdiction nullification. Perhaps have high slot module(s) that are required to enable interdiction nullification, with a -100% damage penalty. Otherwise, fleets of interceptors are just too OP at ganking stuff and with no risk at all. Their job is to tackle. IMO they should be the best at that, when they are doing just that. Note: if this is implemented with a module, you could also do things like have HIC bubbles catch nullified ships, unless a specific, more expensive nullifier is fitted, etc.
Lilycath Lightstalker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#725 - 2013-11-09 12:15:00 UTC
Please, we beg of you. Give a 3rd mid to the Crusader.

Swap it for a low slot. It can deal with less tank/gank and deserves full tackle or dual prop.

Other then that, love the update. Bubble immunity will make for an interesting change, and the warp speed changes are so sexy i could hug you Fozzie.
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#726 - 2013-11-09 14:51:22 UTC
Lilycath Lightstalker wrote:


Swap it for a low slot. It can deal with less tank/gank and deserves full tackle or dual prop.




This. While it's impressive that you can get over 7k ehp out of the Crusader I'm not sure it's really needs the extra grid over a third mid.

But, whatever.Roll

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.

Tsukinosuke
Id Est
RAZOR Alliance
#727 - 2013-11-09 20:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukinosuke
Kagura Nikon wrote:
DAMMIT! I cannot find anything wrong to complain about!!!!! DAMM YOU!!!!


Big smile

they seem better than..

anti-antagonist "not a friend of enemy of antagonist"

Amee Lee
Doomheim
#728 - 2013-11-10 05:36:18 UTC
After Rubicon, the fastest player sub-light speed will be 26, 296 m/s.

Not a huge increase, but interesting to see none-the-less.
Romar Thel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#729 - 2013-11-11 19:39:45 UTC
Interesting changes in the bonuses.

However, bubble immunity makes me think that bubbles have become rather nerfed to death. t3 can be immune, any bs with MJD is escaping and now interceptors are also immune. Eventually the only way to 'catch' a fleet is by spreading 9km scramble point on each ship..
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
#730 - 2013-11-12 02:13:54 UTC
Romar Thel wrote:
Interesting changes in the bonuses.

However, bubble immunity makes me think that bubbles have become rather nerfed to death. t3 can be immune, any bs with MJD is escaping and now interceptors are also immune. Eventually the only way to 'catch' a fleet is by spreading 9km scramble point on each ship..


Let's just pray they don't make a module that makes you bubble immune.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#731 - 2013-11-12 16:54:53 UTC
I have not tested this ship on SiSi to see how quickly they can be on top of ratters or miners but would giving the new scan system a 5 second delay upon entering system be game breaking with these changes? I only ask because right now it looks like if you are ratting or mining when these ships come into system you are dead to rights.

Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#732 - 2013-11-12 20:14:22 UTC
IMO the Crusader needs work. Yes it has 2 slots, like the other 'next step' laser ships: the Coercer, the Slicer and the Retribution. Yes the switch from a 3 mid Executioner to a 2-mid Crusader is jarring. Yes the cap use bonus should not be needed. This post is not about this.

I'ld to propose switching the roles between the Crusader and the Malediction.

The Malediction is already tankier than the Crusader and has the 3 mids necessary to brawl. It can loose the range bonus to scrams and long points without loosing any combat ability due to the engagement range of light rockets and rockets compared to (un)bonused scrams and points. Instead the Malediction could receive a bonus to explosion radius, which would help with damage application. It could even keep the utility high since it has uses a brawling ranges (another reason why the Crusader is not a successor to the Executioner)

The Crusader would see its tracking bonus moved to the frigate skill, loose the damage bonus and receive the scram/disruptor range bonus. Yes loosing the cap use bonus would be better, but I'm not seeing that happen. The tracking bonus is still needed to allow scorch to track at ab speeds.

The added scram range would fit nicely with the scorch range and allow scram/ab kiting outside web range. This is a niche that fits nicely with the tracking bonus, the natural range of scorch, the 2 mid slots and the Crusaders' speed. This niche is also different from those occupied by the Retri, Slicer or Coercer. A beam fit Crusader reaches with Aurora to about 25-30k. Without a range bonus to disruptors, a large part of the Aurora range is wasted (and other crystals with more appropriate ranges do less dps). With a range bonus to disruptors however, there is the possibility for a long range kiter, outside of the usual kiting ranges of the Slicer, Coercer or Retri. The tackling range bonus fits better with Aurora and Scorch and makes the Crusader more different from similar laser ships.


TL,DR Swapping Malediction and Crusader roles would make for better suited ships.
Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption
#733 - 2013-11-12 22:35:29 UTC
Some things that I noticed that seem out of place or strange: 2 of the Ceptors have tanking bonuses, one is the Malediction a fleet ceptor and the other is the Raptor, now a combat ceptor. This seems strange to me. The ceptors with resistance bonuses should both be fleet tackle ceptors. There should be some continuity in design. Also why only resistance bonuses and not the 7.5% rep amount bonuses?

Second I am not a fan of the Interdiction Nullification in the manner it is being introduced. Some people went as far as saying ships with nullification should not even be able to do damage but I don't think thats right but I do think that nullification should be treated much more like a form of Warp Core Stabilization where it should be a fittable mod that takes a high slot and somewhat higher fittings to limit the options and damage of ships that are going to be able to travel freely. These mods could even go as far as reducing scan res and lock range too like warp core stabs do. It should be a trade off that takes some sacrifices to achieve.

I like the changes to the Ares bonuses and like the direction that Roden is taking but also think that you should give all Roden ships equal amounts of missile hardpoints so they can have useful bonuses, but can also have wildcard fittings and stays true to the old Roden missile philosophy without forcing the split weapons. Unbonused missiles are not good but they could have some interesting uses that the enemy might not expect and gives the ships selectable damage types.

Crusader needs a 3rd medium slot and maybe even a 10% range bonus. I would rather have the 3rd med than the 4th turret even.
ZenThunder
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#734 - 2013-11-13 19:19:06 UTC
ok I may have a 'counter' of sorts for this although it only works for populated null-sec systems...

everyone in system who is not sitting at station is required by corp/alliance rules to be a part of that system's fleet at all times for instantaneous warp-to defense. anyone goes off by their lonesome, well tough. The nullification thing makes empty null sec systems less useful to hold.. So it may allow for higher pop densities in null. Weird.
Naomi Anthar
#735 - 2013-11-14 13:06:19 UTC
Let's be honest now.

This rebalance failed big time.

raptor needs more 4 mids than crow yet we got what we got.
crusader needs 3 mids more than malediction yet we got what we got.
claw will suck big time with 2 mids yet we got what we got.

Interceptor rebalance score : 2/10
Ju0ZaS
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#736 - 2013-11-15 18:16:11 UTC
I like the crow, always felt it's role was mixed. Glad to see it turned out to be a fleet ceptor, cause those missiles are far better applied from the edge of the extended point range than rails.

Are you going to fight me or do you expect to bore me to death with your forum pvp?

Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#737 - 2013-11-16 01:33:09 UTC
Feffri wrote:
i seriously don't see how the fleet tackler can do the job of it's name. With armageddons in every fleet with 37.5 heavy neut ability no fleet tackle can stay on the field. In reality the keres is going to be everyone's fleet tackler. Either fleet tackle inties need to have point range past geddon heavy neut range or should be re-purposed.



So you want to remove one of the few remaining counters to these things? Like to have your cake and eat it too?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#738 - 2013-11-16 10:51:59 UTC
Romar Thel wrote:
Interesting changes in the bonuses.

However, bubble immunity makes me think that bubbles have become rather nerfed to death. t3 can be immune, any bs with MJD is escaping and now interceptors are also immune. Eventually the only way to 'catch' a fleet is by spreading 9km scramble point on each ship..



That because Whenever you ask peopel why they dont move into 0.0, most answer. " because of bubbles, I hate bubbles".


That is probably why ccp has been introducing ways to avoid them.

As long as they keep capital ships in place, its all right for me.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#739 - 2013-11-17 21:03:11 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
IMO the Crusader needs work. Yes it has 2 slots, like the other 'next step' laser ships: the Coercer, the Slicer and the Retribution. Yes the switch from a 3 mid Executioner to a 2-mid Crusader is jarring. Yes the cap use bonus should not be needed. This post is not about this.

I'ld to propose switching the roles between the Crusader and the Malediction.

The Malediction is already tankier than the Crusader and has the 3 mids necessary to brawl. It can loose the range bonus to scrams and long points without loosing any combat ability due to the engagement range of light rockets and rockets compared to (un)bonused scrams and points. Instead the Malediction could receive a bonus to explosion radius, which would help with damage application. It could even keep the utility high since it has uses a brawling ranges (another reason why the Crusader is not a successor to the Executioner)

The Crusader would see its tracking bonus moved to the frigate skill, loose the damage bonus and receive the scram/disruptor range bonus. Yes loosing the cap use bonus would be better, but I'm not seeing that happen. The tracking bonus is still needed to allow scorch to track at ab speeds.

The added scram range would fit nicely with the scorch range and allow scram/ab kiting outside web range. This is a niche that fits nicely with the tracking bonus, the natural range of scorch, the 2 mid slots and the Crusaders' speed. This niche is also different from those occupied by the Retri, Slicer or Coercer. A beam fit Crusader reaches with Aurora to about 25-30k. Without a range bonus to disruptors, a large part of the Aurora range is wasted (and other crystals with more appropriate ranges do less dps). With a range bonus to disruptors however, there is the possibility for a long range kiter, outside of the usual kiting ranges of the Slicer, Coercer or Retri. The tackling range bonus fits better with Aurora and Scorch and makes the Crusader more different from similar laser ships.


TL,DR Swapping Malediction and Crusader roles would make for better suited ships.


Indeed it would. That's why it probably won't happen.
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#740 - 2013-11-17 21:09:42 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Meyr wrote:
THANK YOU, FOZZIE!

The re-thought Roden philosophy is going to make a great many Gallente pilots extremely happy.

Now, if only patch day would arrive...Twisted

Problem of course is that the Roden philosophy is now 95% similar to the DuVolle philosophy. Will the latter be changed to make it more drone oriented or is the entire Gallente lineup to be extremely hybrid centric?

Variety is the spice of life, sex, work and play .. and Gallente are supposedly the feinschmeckers of life, with their promiscuous drug enhanced lifestyles (how is that for racial slur!) so they too should have variety Big smile


Duvolle: Blasters
Roden: Railguns
CreoDron: Drones

It's not that hard, people!

Also, Amarr need a T2 laser frig with 3 mids, else they'll really have to ask their Caldari allies for everything point-related...