These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

First post First post
Author
Bibosikus
Aliastra
#541 - 2013-11-06 00:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Fozzie,

I did some fairly in-depth testing on SISI today in a Claw, believing that the Ascendancy implants will most likely be used by inty pilots.

I don't think SISI has yet got the latest warp-speed tweaks announced earlier (The Claw still shows as having a base AU/s of 10?) but from what I can see, those tweaks wont counter a few odd observations I made running over what I'd say is a realistic average warp of 34AU.

Firstly is that once you've got hold of Low-Grade Ascendancy implants Alpha-Epsilon and stuck a T2 Hyperspatial rig and 3 IStabs on a Claw, anything else is nitpicking and probably not going to improve enough to bring you one server tick down. That's barring a full-on, 6-piece High-Grade set with dual T2 rigs and IStabs which is a silly concept anyway.

An full LG Ascendancy set is actually slower than a 5-piece with a 24m WS-610 (10%) implant. The Omega is redundant in this case.

I'll try the test again after your tweaks hit SISI..

BTW What will happen to the six existing Warp Speed implants?

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Garia666
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#542 - 2013-11-06 07:56:47 UTC
At first it works as intended and now all of a sudden its not right..
ahwell better late then sorry. i guess

hopefully anpersonal disaster can now be avoided.
it would help to listen to players before hand instead of saying it all works as intended.

it also might help if you would play the game.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#543 - 2013-11-06 09:48:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've got a few updates to bring to you all today.

We've been making some tweaks to the numbers, moderating the changes to the far ends of the spectrum and adjusting the stats of the warp speed rigs and the warp speed T3 subsystems.

Firstly, we have done another pass on the warp speeds by class. The default advantage for T2 ships is being reduced slightly from 12.5% to 10%. We're also increasing the speeds of a few of the slower classes (freighters, titans, battlecruisers and command ships) a tad and reducing the speed advantage of the faster ships a bit as well (bringing the top end to 8au/s instead of the previous 10au/s). It's important to note that even with this extra reduction, all interceptors will see gigantic improvements to their warp speeds for virtually all warp distances after Rubicon.

Finally, we are also putting a cap on the deceleration speed that can be obtained for now. This cap is currently set to 2au/s (the declaration speed that a 6au/s warper hits by default, and twice the current hardcoded deceleration speed). This means that as ships start to travel faster than 6au/s they will start to hit diminishing returns.

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive. Having ships appear to blink into place as they exit warp is not ideal as it breaks immersion and prevents players on the destination grid from seeing where the new ship came from. It also significantly reduces the benefits of skilled play (alignment, vigilance) and severely weakens one of the planned natural counters to the new interceptors (smartbombing tactics). At the max deceleration ships will still appear very quickly on grid, but it will always be visible which direction they came from and there will always be one second between their arrival on grid and the completion of the warp.

The new post-Rubicon warp chart can be seen here, including the base warp speed changes and the deceleration cap.

We are also tweaking the warp speed rigs (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers) to give them a penalty to ship CPU output (same penalty as drone rigs) instead of their current penalty to armor amount, to even the playing field for different types of tanking.

And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating.

Thanks for the feedback and testing so far everyone!



So basically you are undoing the greatest bennefit the whoel change woudl have. The end of near permanent low seg smartbomb camps, yeah those that make 9 in 10 noob never ever enter again low sec after their first attempt (that usually reault sin them travelign trough rancer or amamake exaclty because they went to low sec to take a shortcut)...


Bad move.. the end of smatbombing camps had a HUGE potential to increase retention of new players and increase the ammount of real pvp players in the game.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#544 - 2013-11-06 11:58:32 UTC
stupid question and about pod ...
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#545 - 2013-11-06 13:05:14 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:



So basically you are undoing the greatest bennefit the whoel change woudl have. The end of near permanent low seg smartbomb camps, yeah those that make 9 in 10 noob never ever enter again low sec after their first attempt (that usually reault sin them travelign trough rancer or amamake exaclty because they went to low sec to take a shortcut)...


Bad move.. the end of smatbombing camps had a HUGE potential to increase retention of new players and increase the ammount of real pvp players in the game.


Noobs arent exactly known for flying warp speed rigged ships, dictors or interceptors
Mr Floydy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#546 - 2013-11-06 13:35:16 UTC
Veldar Reku wrote:
You could have addressed this by adding appropriate, perhaps more visible and persistent, warp trails.

That'd be awesome to have on warp in/outs regardless of this current change around warp speed!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#547 - 2013-11-06 14:36:25 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:



So basically you are undoing the greatest bennefit the whoel change woudl have. The end of near permanent low seg smartbomb camps, yeah those that make 9 in 10 noob never ever enter again low sec after their first attempt (that usually reault sin them travelign trough rancer or amamake exaclty because they went to low sec to take a shortcut)...


Bad move.. the end of smatbombing camps had a HUGE potential to increase retention of new players and increase the ammount of real pvp players in the game.


Noobs arent exactly known for flying warp speed rigged ships, dictors or interceptors



You have a point, but their frigates would have some chance to pass trough this way.

Well I hope for the good of the game someday they fidna way to inhibit exageration on this type of camp where the noobs cannto even learn anythign, because they cannot even see what haappened.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Gustav Mannfred
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#548 - 2013-11-06 16:20:01 UTC
question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq?

or overall:

is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size?

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#549 - 2013-11-06 16:59:17 UTC
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq?

or overall:

is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size?


It's dependant on max warp speed. So in your example you'd accelerate and decelerate as fast as any other 6au/s ship.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

TheButcherPete
Blackbase Incorporated
#550 - 2013-11-06 17:41:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq?

or overall:

is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size?


It's dependant on max warp speed. So in your example you'd accelerate and decelerate as fast as any other 6au/s ship.


So now, Covops frigates with 13.5au/s with rigs go like 21au/sec

Add in the implants and it'll take you longer to load grid than to get to the next gate.


This..... this is going to be great.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#551 - 2013-11-06 18:57:17 UTC
TheButcherPete wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq?

or overall:

is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size?


It's dependant on max warp speed. So in your example you'd accelerate and decelerate as fast as any other 6au/s ship.


So now, Covops frigates with 13.5au/s with rigs go like 21au/sec

Add in the implants and it'll take you longer to load grid than to get to the next gate.


This..... this is going to be great.


PETE!

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

TheButcherPete
Blackbase Incorporated
#552 - 2013-11-06 19:12:15 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
TheButcherPete wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq?

or overall:

is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size?


It's dependant on max warp speed. So in your example you'd accelerate and decelerate as fast as any other 6au/s ship.


So now, Covops frigates with 13.5au/s with rigs go like 21au/sec

Add in the implants and it'll take you longer to load grid than to get to the next gate.


This..... this is going to be great.


PETE!


IRIS :DDDDD

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#553 - 2013-11-06 19:32:24 UTC
TheButcherPete wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq?

or overall:

is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size?


It's dependant on max warp speed. So in your example you'd accelerate and decelerate as fast as any other 6au/s ship.


So now, Covops frigates with 13.5au/s with rigs go like 21au/sec

Add in the implants and it'll take you longer to load grid than to get to the next gate.


This..... this is going to be great.



looking at the last update post cov ops no longer have 13 au/s
Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#554 - 2013-11-06 21:08:29 UTC
Short question:

So acceleration is now much faster then deceleration with a ceptor. Is there a scenario where a ceptor increases deceleration speed? Like a grid to grid warp? 50 to 400 km for example? It would be good if it is 8 for both ways there.

Sorry, i am not a native English speaker and your mechanical chitchat is a bit too much.
Kadesh Priestess
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#555 - 2013-11-07 07:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadesh Priestess
What do numbers in accel/decel row mean? Are these numbers simply au/s^2, or some special coefficients? Would be glad to get some explanation.
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#556 - 2013-11-07 09:52:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

We are also tweaking the warp speed rigs (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers) to give them a penalty to ship CPU output (same penalty as drone rigs) instead of their current penalty to armor amount, to even the playing field for different types of tanking.


Shield tanks are more reliant on CPU than Armor
You havn't leveled the playing field you have favoured armor over shield instead of shield over armor.
Given there are lots of useful rigs that penalise shield already I'm not sure why you shy away from armor penalty rigs.

Maybe don't bother with a penaly or maybe penalise scan res a bit.

Better catching power overall ( warp speed + lock time ).
But worse at camping gates pure lock time.





Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#557 - 2013-11-07 09:57:33 UTC
Dav Varan wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

We are also tweaking the warp speed rigs (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers) to give them a penalty to ship CPU output (same penalty as drone rigs) instead of their current penalty to armor amount, to even the playing field for different types of tanking.


Shield tanks are more reliant on CPU than Armor
You havn't leveled the playing field you have favoured armor over shield instead of shield over armor.
Given there are lots of useful rigs that penalise shield already I'm not sure why you shy away from armor penalty rigs.

Maybe don't bother with a penaly or maybe penalise scan res a bit.

Better catching power overall ( warp speed + lock time ).
But worse at camping gates pure lock time.








Scan res penalty woudl be interesting! Because makes interceptors choose between 2 important capabilities!


Think on that CCP!! Its a great Idea this man had.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#558 - 2013-11-07 10:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Fozzie,,don't know whether you are still reading this thread, I hope so.

Not off topic, but the new stratios and astero are not benefiting from these changes because of the fact that as there is no covert ops recloak delay bonus, and with the faster warp speed means that there is no time to turn off the cloak to be ready for the timer to be reset before the next gate.

This means waiting for 30 seconds or possibly 25 26 who knows? Before being able to break gate cloak and warp/cloak away.

With the old warp mechanics you could eat this recloaking delay time on the ships without bonus by turning off cloak after safely leaving gate, and be ready when on next gate to go again.

Now it just Massively slows down travel. Lost the whole point of faster warp. for these ships it is actually now a nerf? Sure you did not intend that.

Only safe way now is to sit on gate for 30 seconds plus session timer with a stopwatch. (Theres a timing bug as well but thats reported seperately)

Could the recloak timer be reduced to something reasonable, as curently you spend all your time waiting at gate when travelling, then whizz... wait..... totally breaks the flow.

Not so much easy travel.

Can you think on it?

Thanks

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#559 - 2013-11-07 10:24:24 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fozzie,,don't know whether you are still reading this thread, I hope so.

Not off topic, but the new stratios and astero are not benefiting from these changes because of the fact that as there is no covert ops recloak delay bonus, and with the faster warp speed means that there is no time to turn off the cloak to be ready for the timer to be reset before the next gate.

This means waiting for 30 seconds or possibly 25 26 who knows? Before being able to break gate cloak and warp/cloak away.

With the old warp mechanics you could eat this recloaking delay time on the ships without bonus by turning off cloak after safely leaving gate, and be ready when on next gate to go again.

Now it just Massively slows down travel. Lost the whole point of faster warp. for these ships it is actually now a nerf? Sure you did not intend that.

Only safe way now is to sit on gate for 30 seconds plus session timer with a stopwatch. (Theres a timing bug as well but thats reported seperately)

Could the recloak timer be reduced to something reasonable, as curently you spend all your time waiting at gate when travelling, then whizz... wait..... totally breaks the flow.

Not so much easy travel.

Can you think on it?

Thanks


you know.. its not like you gonna have hostiles in EVERY gate in low sec and null sec. and in high sec also not many gate swill ahve dangers.


You might have to wait.. .once every what? 10 jumps?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#560 - 2013-11-07 13:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kagura Nikon wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fozzie,,don't know whether you are still reading this thread, I hope so.

Not off topic, but the new stratios and astero are not benefiting from these changes because of the fact that as there is no covert ops recloak delay bonus, and with the faster warp speed means that there is no time to turn off the cloak to be ready for the timer to be reset before the next gate.

This means waiting for 30 seconds or possibly 25 26 who knows? Before being able to break gate cloak and warp/cloak away.

With the old warp mechanics you could eat this recloaking delay time on the ships without bonus by turning off cloak after safely leaving gate, and be ready when on next gate to go again.

Now it just Massively slows down travel. Lost the whole point of faster warp. for these ships it is actually now a nerf? Sure you did not intend that.

Only safe way now is to sit on gate for 30 seconds plus session timer with a stopwatch. (Theres a timing bug as well but thats reported seperately)

Could the recloak timer be reduced to something reasonable, as curently you spend all your time waiting at gate when travelling, then whizz... wait..... totally breaks the flow.

Not so much easy travel.

Can you think on it?

Thanks


you know.. its not like you gonna have hostiles in EVERY gate in low sec and null sec. and in high sec also not many gate swill ahve dangers.


You might have to wait.. .once every what? 10 jumps?

Why would you use a covert ops in hisec?
For losec wormholes and null travel is where they normally shine.

so on the ones without an obvious camp you suggest we jump without cloaking and hope there's no cloaky fast lock proteus or three waiting ????

>>> Dead

Not much of a covert ops cloak then. Advanced cloak II with MWD trick is safer. or wait 30-35 seconds at EVERY gate.

Makes travel really annoying.

10 seconds or less would be fine, 30 is just such a pain in the a** for travelling and 30 seconds in a wormhole is a lifetime... Literally

Isn't this why we do testing on the test server to give feedback?

Fozzie, If this effect is what you want that's fine anything can be adapted to even if annoying.
If it is unforeseen can you take it into account and deal with it as you see fit to correct?

could You please comment to let us know that you have seen it ?
Many thanks

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE