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[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

First post First post
Author
Dirk Action
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#521 - 2013-11-05 16:50:27 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating.


People actually use those things?


They WOULD HAVE with the new changes because it would have been around a dictor's warp acceleration.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#522 - 2013-11-05 16:51:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating.


People actually use those things?


Not yet. But that has the potential to change for reasons that should be obvious considering the thread we're posting in. Smile


and because you're going to nerf all the other t3 subs right?
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2013-11-05 17:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Zilero
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've got a few updates to bring to you all today.

Words.



So, by this you mean that you saw a lot of PL crybabies post on the forums about how easy it would be for them to lose their precious supers and how upset they would be by not getting easy kills with their smartbombing gate camps.


Eve, where tears apparently work quite well Big smile.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#524 - 2013-11-05 17:55:33 UTC
Zilero wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've got a few updates to bring to you all today.

Words.



So, by this you mean that you saw a lot of PL crybabies post on the forums about how easy it would be for them to lose their precious supers and how upset they would be by not getting easy kills with their smartbombing gate camps.


Eve, where tears apparently work quite well Big smile.


Yes, because making supers easy to tackle works against the people with the largest (super)cap fleet.
Veldar Reku
Wu Xi Holdings
#525 - 2013-11-05 18:01:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive.


You could have addressed this by adding appropriate, perhaps more visible and persistent, warp trails.

Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#526 - 2013-11-05 18:32:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

...snip...

Finally, we are also putting a cap on the deceleration speed that can be obtained for now. This cap is currently set to 2au/s (the declaration speed that a 6au/s warper hits by default, and twice the current hardcoded deceleration speed). This means that as ships start to travel faster than 6au/s they will start to hit diminishing returns.

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive. Having ships appear to blink into place as they exit warp is not ideal as it breaks immersion and prevents players on the destination grid from seeing where the new ship came from. It also significantly reduces the benefits of skilled play (alignment, vigilance) and severely weakens one of the planned natural counters to the new interceptors (smartbombing tactics). At the max deceleration ships will still appear very quickly on grid, but it will always be visible which direction they came from and there will always be one second between their arrival on grid and the completion of the warp.

...snip...

So all that crap you gave Maka about knowing the effects and how great they were... P

That's right, bow to your PL overlords.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2013-11-05 18:39:33 UTC
Veldar Reku wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive.


You could have addressed this by adding appropriate, perhaps more visible and persistent, warp trails.


Wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

ribo
New Eden Institute of Technology
#528 - 2013-11-05 18:54:30 UTC


Skimmed the post and thought I was clicking on a video of the deceleration animation. Was relieved when it was a spreadsheet.
PinkKnife
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2013-11-05 19:02:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've got a few updates to bring to you all today.

We've been making some tweaks to the numbers, moderating the changes to the far ends of the spectrum and adjusting the stats of the warp speed rigs and the warp speed T3 subsystems.

Firstly, we have done another pass on the warp speeds by class. The default advantage for T2 ships is being reduced slightly from 12.5% to 10%. We're also increasing the speeds of a few of the slower classes (freighters, titans, battlecruisers and command ships) a tad and reducing the speed advantage of the faster ships a bit as well (bringing the top end to 8au/s instead of the previous 10au/s). It's important to note that even with this extra reduction, all interceptors will see gigantic improvements to their warp speeds for virtually all warp distances after Rubicon.

Finally, we are also putting a cap on the deceleration speed that can be obtained for now. This cap is currently set to 2au/s (the declaration speed that a 6au/s warper hits by default, and twice the current hardcoded deceleration speed). This means that as ships start to travel faster than 6au/s they will start to hit diminishing returns.

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive. Having ships appear to blink into place as they exit warp is not ideal as it breaks immersion and prevents players on the destination grid from seeing where the new ship came from. It also significantly reduces the benefits of skilled play (alignment, vigilance) and severely weakens one of the planned natural counters to the new interceptors (smartbombing tactics). At the max deceleration ships will still appear very quickly on grid, but it will always be visible which direction they came from and there will always be one second between their arrival on grid and the completion of the warp.

The new post-Rubicon warp chart can be seen here, including the base warp speed changes and the deceleration cap.

We are also tweaking the warp speed rigs (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers) to give them a penalty to ship CPU output (same penalty as drone rigs) instead of their current penalty to armor amount, to even the playing field for different types of tanking.

And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating.

Thanks for the feedback and testing so far everyone!



Fozzie,

On this same line, is it possible to get an animation/flash/indication of when a ship has exited warp to third parties so we know when it is targetable? As is, we have to spam click target over and over which is both sloppy/messy and unclear. With the new changes a Large ship (super cap/freighter) will be on grid but not targettable for-*******-ever. A nice little flash or wave thing (I dunno, you people are the artist) to indicate when warp is finished to everyone else, would be fabulous.
Makalu Zarya
The Maverick Navy
#530 - 2013-11-05 19:24:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've got a few updates to bring to you all today.

We've been making some tweaks to the numbers, moderating the changes to the far ends of the spectrum and adjusting the stats of the warp speed rigs and the warp speed T3 subsystems.

Firstly, we have done another pass on the warp speeds by class. The default advantage for T2 ships is being reduced slightly from 12.5% to 10%. We're also increasing the speeds of a few of the slower classes (freighters, titans, battlecruisers and command ships) a tad and reducing the speed advantage of the faster ships a bit as well (bringing the top end to 8au/s instead of the previous 10au/s). It's important to note that even with this extra reduction, all interceptors will see gigantic improvements to their warp speeds for virtually all warp distances after Rubicon.

Finally, we are also putting a cap on the deceleration speed that can be obtained for now. This cap is currently set to 2au/s (the declaration speed that a 6au/s warper hits by default, and twice the current hardcoded deceleration speed). This means that as ships start to travel faster than 6au/s they will start to hit diminishing returns.

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive. Having ships appear to blink into place as they exit warp is not ideal as it breaks immersion and prevents players on the destination grid from seeing where the new ship came from. It also significantly reduces the benefits of skilled play (alignment, vigilance) and severely weakens one of the planned natural counters to the new interceptors (smartbombing tactics). At the max deceleration ships will still appear very quickly on grid, but it will always be visible which direction they came from and there will always be one second between their arrival on grid and the completion of the warp.

The new post-Rubicon warp chart can be seen here, including the base warp speed changes and the deceleration cap.

We are also tweaking the warp speed rigs (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers) to give them a penalty to ship CPU output (same penalty as drone rigs) instead of their current penalty to armor amount, to even the playing field for different types of tanking.

And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating.

Thanks for the feedback and testing so far everyone!


:winning:
Capqu
Half Empty
#531 - 2013-11-05 19:48:46 UTC
Zilero wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've got a few updates to bring to you all today.

Words.



So, by this you mean that you saw a lot of PL crybabies post on the forums about how easy it would be for them to lose their precious supers and how upset they would be by not getting easy kills with their smartbombing gate camps.


Eve, where tears apparently work quite well Big smile.



plz stop posting forever zilero
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#532 - 2013-11-05 20:50:37 UTC
Any particular reason the average freighter warp still takes 2x as long + a few seconds? The warp speeds don't become even, and then get faster, until just after 100 AU. Increasing the average warp in for sub-cruiser ships in eve by 33%-105% kind of makes people not want to fly/train for them. Would not moving the changes so a battlecruiser is the standard make more sense? Figure most of your game is designed around larger scale combat with ship types above cruiser, do you really think its a great idea to make everything take longer? Also, "smartbombs are the expected counter to interceptors," that is kind of hard to do when they warp through bubbles and would require a perfect hair-pin trigger finger on an entire fleets part. I also agree that ore sites need to be moved back to anomalies for the simple fact that if something isn't reported mining barges, haulers, and other sorts of industrial assistance takes a while to move. With the new changes an interceptor can still land on field ( implants and maybe a rig ) before most ships are even in a position to warp out. The warp difference is also very extreme. An un-implanted, un-rigged interceptor can cross 200 au before a battlecruiser can cross 10 AU and before a battleship can cross 1 AU.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#533 - 2013-11-05 21:17:54 UTC
sabastyian wrote:
Any particular reason the average freighter warp still takes 2x as long + a few seconds? The warp speeds don't become even, and then get faster, until just after 100 AU. Increasing the average warp in for sub-cruiser ships in eve by 33%-105% kind of makes people not want to fly/train for them. Would not moving the changes so a battlecruiser is the standard make more sense? Figure most of your game is designed around larger scale combat with ship types above cruiser, do you really think its a great idea to make everything take longer? Also, "smartbombs are the expected counter to interceptors," that is kind of hard to do when they warp through bubbles and would require a perfect hair-pin trigger finger on an entire fleets part. I also agree that ore sites need to be moved back to anomalies for the simple fact that if something isn't reported mining barges, haulers, and other sorts of industrial assistance takes a while to move. With the new changes an interceptor can still land on field ( implants and maybe a rig ) before most ships are even in a position to warp out. The warp difference is also very extreme. An un-implanted, un-rigged interceptor can cross 200 au before a battlecruiser can cross 10 AU and before a battleship can cross 1 AU.


If only fozzie had explained his reasoning for this in the very first post in this thread Roll
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#534 - 2013-11-05 21:20:18 UTC
I think that this most recent change is very wise, and fixes a lot of the engine-breaking problems with the warp speed increase. Gj to fozzie and rise.

That said, I think the very slow warp speed of the attack bs might hamper them a lot in their theoretical role of skirmish battleships, and they could perhaps use a role bonus to warp (or at least decelerate) at t2 bs or even bc speeds.
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#535 - 2013-11-05 22:47:18 UTC
Jack bubu wrote:
why do you hate fun fozzie

Cry

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Gothie Maulerant
Solar Havoc Technologies
#536 - 2013-11-05 22:48:58 UTC
Feels much slower for the fast ships though... yes it's the first iteration was a big change from the past, but giving the players a way to move about much faster, rather than spending hours watching the warp animation, would have been a welcome evolution of Eve....
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#537 - 2013-11-05 23:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: BayneNothos
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating.


People actually use those things?


Yup, allows a 4th mid on a Proteus. Tends to be a useful extra slot and you don't loose too much.

It's also one of the more prettier subs, which is the most important thing...
Kellath Eladrel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#538 - 2013-11-05 23:46:19 UTC
2 AU/s is not a deceleration speed... any chance of getting the numbers for what the actual accel and decel rates are? (x AU/s^2)

Five card stud, nothing wild, and the sky's the limit.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#539 - 2013-11-05 23:54:37 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
People actually use those things?


Even before the warp speed changes, having a high maximum warp speed would still allow you to get places ahead of the other guy. Having your T3s warp out after battleships but arrive before them was one feature of this subsystem.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#540 - 2013-11-05 23:58:04 UTC
Veldar Reku wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive.


You could have addressed this by adding appropriate, perhaps more visible and persistent, warp trails.



But the warp trails would only show up when the new ship shows up. Which for people who are not that ship, is after the incoming interceptor had locked and scrammed you. At this point in time, seeing warp trails for the incoming ship would be pointless.

Of course if CCP were to introduce Babylon-5 style indicators of an incoming ship (i.e.: foreshadowing via graphical effects), I'm sure we'd all be a lot happier :)