These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#401 - 2013-10-16 21:21:53 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
gascanu wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
An unplated Paladin took me 21m30s to travel 16 jumps with no agility/speed mods and no hyperspace rigs. That's with the MWD trick, but before the incoming mass reduction to Marauders. I haven't tested a T1/Faction BS but maybe I'll do that right now.

EDIT: I just noticed Dinsdale's post above me. I wonder what he did with that extra six-and-a-half minutes.


longer warps / no mwd trick?


I doubt there are longer warps involved. When you have 16 jumps, they kind of average out. The MWD trick probably wasn't used for him but it wouldn't add six minutes.

Anyway, I took a Hyperion 16 jumps. MWD trick, no plates, no agility/acceleration mods/rigs, no warp rigs. It took 22:30 to make the trip. It might've been around 22:15 if I were a little more efficient.


how about you fit 2x1600 plates and some trimarks on it and then try again?
Octoven
Stellar Production
#402 - 2013-10-17 01:49:36 UTC
I like the new warp acceleration curve from a pvp perspective to catch those pesky BC blobs but to be honest outside of pvp usage this function isn't very feasible nor is it attractive. Typically you are moving solo in most cases so tactics aren't very relevant here. That bit is actually indeed annoying; however, given that most of eve is pvp I suppose we will just have to live with the change. Congrats on getting it live look forward to using it lol but forgive me if I say it just doesn't wow me.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#403 - 2013-10-17 07:36:32 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Helicity Boson wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
So are you saying, that I can actually intercept in my interceptor now? Big smile

I know, crazy isn't it? :)


To rephrase:

"So are you saying, that I can actually intercept in my interceptor now?* "

*unless you're a lowsec pirate


What would be the problem here? Gate guns?

If that's the case this won't make things any worse and I think it opens up opportunities, for catching people on celestials and such.


+1 for having the most terrifying avatar in eve. Your face will haunt my dreams. O_O
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#404 - 2013-10-17 09:22:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tubrug1 wrote:
Why are Freighters becoming faster?


They're getting faster for long warps, slower for short warps. We didn't want to have speeds too low with the new system, as it would have been easy for the slowest ships to become prohibitive.


According to my old physics text speed is Distance divided by time. According to you chart for the very typical distances of 20 and 50 AU, Rube release is going to significantly nerf freighter speed.

Like freighter pilots aren't already pissed off about how slow they move as it is.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#405 - 2013-10-17 09:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And now a quick note on freighters. We knew that we wanted to expand the spread between the slowest warping ships and the fastest, and we didn't want to take the tempting but potentially damaging route of just buffing everything and making the galaxy smaller for every ship.

Obviously there's a fine line to walk here, but I think we found a strong compromise with the amount that we raised the freighter and JF warp speeds. It is definitely an increase in their average warp times, which is intentional. But it's not back breaking and I believe that it's quite well balanced in relation to their massive cargoholds. For trips where faster warp speeds are needed, people always have the choice of taking smaller volumes in something like an industrial or DST.

Options like adding rigs to freighters could very well happen someday, as we're fairly open that that idea and have been giving it some thought. However we're not going to commit to anything along those lines at this time.


Let's disconnect from what we think ships should do and connect with the reality of game play - this is going to suck. Period.

And "Options..." translates to "We'll screw this up now and fix it all later if we lose enough accounts"

Sometimes grand ideas just **** a customer off.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#406 - 2013-10-17 09:51:06 UTC
Vrenth wrote:
BloodMia wrote:
Matthias Thullmann wrote:
I don't see why the slope needs to be linear.... why not exponential? That way battleships+ lose maybe 1-2% of warp acceleration while frigates gain 50-75% faster acceleration.

CCP summon your math wizards!


This

Kahega Amielden wrote:

Why is the current proposal bad?


Because if you need to create a bigger delta than now, you don't need to make heavy thing MUCH slower when you're already making lighter ship MUCH faster!

It seems that the initial goal was to widen the gap between fast/slow boats, to make warpspeed meaningful again, not to "stealth" nerf already slow boats into slower boats. There is a big difference between "hey, those inty don't warp fast enough to catch battleship" and "hey freighter pilot really have a fun day piloting those, lets make them feel the pain"


Freighter part of your complaint is invalid. Freighters travel time is now faster in most cases if you look at their charts.


There's a chart argument and then there's the reality of routes in EVE. Overall the time is going to be painfully longer.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#407 - 2013-10-17 09:54:51 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And now a quick note on freighters. We knew that we wanted to expand the spread between the slowest warping ships and the fastest, and we didn't want to take the tempting but potentially damaging route of just buffing everything and making the galaxy smaller for every ship.

Obviously there's a fine line to walk here, but I think we found a strong compromise with the amount that we raised the freighter and JF warp speeds. It is definitely an increase in their average warp times, which is intentional. But it's not back breaking and I believe that it's quite well balanced in relation to their massive cargoholds. For trips where faster warp speeds are needed, people always have the choice of taking smaller volumes in something like an industrial or DST.

Options like adding rigs to freighters could very well happen someday, as we're fairly open that that idea and have been giving it some thought. However we're not going to commit to anything along those lines at this time.


Let's disconnect from what we think ships should do and connect with the reality of game play - this is going to suck. Period.

Sometimes grand ideas just **** a customer off.


Makes freighters easier to catch.

Which makes Eve less safe

Good change.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#408 - 2013-10-17 10:00:33 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And now a quick note on freighters. We knew that we wanted to expand the spread between the slowest warping ships and the fastest, and we didn't want to take the tempting but potentially damaging route of just buffing everything and making the galaxy smaller for every ship.

Obviously there's a fine line to walk here, but I think we found a strong compromise with the amount that we raised the freighter and JF warp speeds. It is definitely an increase in their average warp times, which is intentional. But it's not back breaking and I believe that it's quite well balanced in relation to their massive cargoholds. For trips where faster warp speeds are needed, people always have the choice of taking smaller volumes in something like an industrial or DST.

Options like adding rigs to freighters could very well happen someday, as we're fairly open that that idea and have been giving it some thought. However we're not going to commit to anything along those lines at this time.


Let's disconnect from what we think ships should do and connect with the reality of game play - this is going to suck. Period.

Sometimes grand ideas just **** a customer off.


Makes freighters easier to catch.

Which makes Eve less safe

Good change.


I'll repeat what has already been stated by someone else - if you are having problems catching a freighter now you need to hang up your PvP hat. THE ONLY thing stopping wholesale slaughter of freighters right now is the drop risk/reward. Freighters are never safe.
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#409 - 2013-10-17 10:50:43 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Makes freighters easier to catch.

Which makes Eve less safe

Good change.


It is not changing the chance of you catching freighters or making Eve less safe for them. Your chance of catching a freighter wont change at all by this. It just adds time where the player cannot interact with the game. Like I said before, I can understand that you feel that freighters need to be easier to catch, I dont agree, but it is an opinion one could have. The only problem is that this warptime thingy is not gonna chance anything to that.

It is stunning to see that CCP cannot seem to explain WHY big ships need to be slower, other then saying "we got an attribute here in the database that we should use in conjunction with a formula that slows big ships down".

BS fleets that travel (or roam) - gone. Really, try and go 10 jumps in a plated (or even unplated) BS on sisi. Its horrid! Add to that, since BS can basically only be used in big fleets, tidi is gonna aggrevate that dramatically. So the only way to use them sensibly is to Titan bridge them everywhere they need to go.
At the keyboard hauling in Frieghters - gone. Who is gonna sit at their screen staring at a freighter in warp even longer than he is now already. Most freighters will be run afk because of this. Afk hauling means less than 1B in cargo, so suicide ganking will diminish quite a bit as well.
PVP-ers with subpar skills getting kills after all - yes! If rewarding lackluster players with kills is the way CCP wants to go its "op success". I dont like it tbh, I want a kill to at least some skills and effort. Not something like: enter system, scan --> all anomalies show up immediately, warp to most likely ano without a ratter given any chance of escape. Basically the only skill the ratter needs is watch intel, since everything else he does becomes irrlevant. The attacking party doesnt need any skills at all: even a person (not a char) that is one day in the game will now be able to catch most ratters. The game becomes too easy imho.

bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#410 - 2013-10-17 14:14:35 UTC
How slower BS will be after the patch?

Anyone tried doing the same 10 jumps (or amarr to Jita) using the test server and tranquility?
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#411 - 2013-10-18 02:04:12 UTC
Can y'all pleeeeease look at the warp cap consumption on Recon cruisers while you're at it? A falcon with all 5 skills caps out at 90 AU warp, while a Blackbird can warp 199 AU. It's a metric pain to navigate about half the systems out there in a Recon. If you're trying to do it as a fleet, all the Recons get left behind because their max warp is half or less than the rest of the fleet, even if their nominal warp speed is higher than all but frigates. Even if I get to location with the rest of the fleet, I start at half cap or less when everyone else is still at 80-90%.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#412 - 2013-10-18 05:55:13 UTC
Vrenth wrote:
Freighter part of your complaint is invalid. Freighters travel time is now faster in most cases if you look at their charts.
Did you switch the charts?
Erica Sukarala
Rising Storm.
#413 - 2013-10-18 14:38:35 UTC
This simple change is going to make the game completely different. Expect many more "they've gone to plaid" moments.

Nomnomnom
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#414 - 2013-10-18 16:20:13 UTC
I've given a bit more base speed to the freighter hulls to keep average travel times more in line with tranq
Don't want to slow them too much as the class is not that much fun to fly atm.
Titans and SC's are the real monsters and so they get to go slow. Given they jump this won't affect fun too much.

Then just smaller = faster and bonus as follows

Giving 12.5% for Navy / Pirate and T2 Damage hulls
Giving 25% for Covert and T1 Fast Indi hulls
Giving 40% for interdiction/interception and T2 Fast Indi hulls
Giving 50% for Fleet Tackle Hulls

I come out with the following speeds for ships

1.00 Titan
1.25 SuperCarrier
1.50 Freighter / Dread
1.75 Carrier / JF
2.00 BS
2.25 Navy BS / Marauder
2.50 Black Ops / BC
2.75 Navy BC / CS
3.00 Cruiser / Industrial
3.25 Navy Cruisers / HAC / DST
3.75 Recon / Fast Industrial
4.00 HIC
4.50 Blockade Runner / Destroyer
5.00 Navy Destroyer ( If they happen )
6.00 Frigate
6.25 Interdictor
6.75 Navy Frigate / AF / Bomber / EAF
7.50 Covert Operations
8.00 Combat Interceptor
9.00 Tackle Interceptor

Only really Big difference here is the Blockade Runner which gets its speed nearly halfed but is still much faster than on tranq.
Given the cargo capacity of these ships I think this is a better choice than the universe ( Market ) shrinking speed currently proposed for them.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#415 - 2013-10-18 19:25:16 UTC
Well, there are 40,000 online as I type this, a Friday aft/evening.
That number is down from the height of the null sec war (and yeah, that is a factor in the amount of people online).

So let's see how big the dropoff in people online after the Christmas holidays. Sub rates always lag the dropoff in people online, but I fully expect a ton of people to say "screw it, the game's fun factor has dropped too much".

People already get sick looking at the new warp animations, now they have to look at them even longer in any ship bigger than a cruiser.

Another brilliant move by the management team that thought "duh, let's let some null sec guys who always jump bridge or cyno everywhere overhaul a mechanism that affects anyone not in null sec sov space".

Do yourself a favour CCP. Take a snapshot any time of the day, and see what percent of your player base is in null sec sov space that has a bigass jump bridge network, tons of Titans, etc, and compare that to the quantity of players online in high sec, who have zero ability to bypass this godawful nerf to larger ships.

Then think real careful if you want to continue with this stupidity.
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#416 - 2013-10-18 20:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: David Laurentson
KIller Wabbit wrote:

There's a chart argument and then there's the reality of routes in EVE. Overall the time is going to be painfully longer.



Well... not really painful, though they'll definitely be longer. The chart indicates that the break-even point (where the newstarts being faster than the old) a little past 50 AU (my ball-park math puts it at about 60AU). It's not uncommon to have a few jumps past that in most longish routes: Jita<>Amarr has two of them and another two systems with high-50 AU jumps.


Being a terrible math nerd, I've tried to estimate what the difference is for a few of the routes I happened to have gate-to-gate distances for. The tl;dr is that flying from Jita to Amarr (or back again) will take about 2 minutes longer, and longer market hauls like Amarr to Rens takes about 6 minutes more.

Currently, you can autopilot Jita to Amarr in about 40 minutes, or manually fly it in 20. That amarr to rens route is an 80 minute autopilot or a 40 minute manual run.


I don't think I'll miss the difference, especially when I'm cutting a solid minute off each of those 180 AU warps I run into near the ice-belt systems in Metro. Lots of short warps at least make me click things. Those "go get a sandwich" warps just make me regret owning a freighter...
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2013-10-18 21:14:34 UTC
is that spreadsheet/graphic in the original post with post-rubicon #s still accurate or have numbers changed since then?

and has anyone reverse-engineered the warp time formula in the past 20 pages of this thread or elsewhere?

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#418 - 2013-10-18 21:37:29 UTC
Falkor1984 wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Makes freighters easier to catch.

Which makes Eve less safe

Good change.


It is not changing the chance of you catching freighters or making Eve less safe for them. Your chance of catching a freighter wont change at all by this. It just adds time where the player cannot interact with the game. Like I said before, I can understand that you feel that freighters need to be easier to catch, I dont agree, but it is an opinion one could have. The only problem is that this warptime thingy is not gonna chance anything to that.

It is stunning to see that CCP cannot seem to explain WHY big ships need to be slower, other then saying "we got an attribute here in the database that we should use in conjunction with a formula that slows big ships down".

BS fleets that travel (or roam) - gone. Really, try and go 10 jumps in a plated (or even unplated) BS on sisi. Its horrid! Add to that, since BS can basically only be used in big fleets, tidi is gonna aggrevate that dramatically. So the only way to use them sensibly is to Titan bridge them everywhere they need to go.
At the keyboard hauling in Frieghters - gone. Who is gonna sit at their screen staring at a freighter in warp even longer than he is now already. Most freighters will be run afk because of this. Afk hauling means less than 1B in cargo, so suicide ganking will diminish quite a bit as well.
PVP-ers with subpar skills getting kills after all - yes! If rewarding lackluster players with kills is the way CCP wants to go its "op success". I dont like it tbh, I want a kill to at least some skills and effort. Not something like: enter system, scan --> all anomalies show up immediately, warp to most likely ano without a ratter given any chance of escape. Basically the only skill the ratter needs is watch intel, since everything else he does becomes irrlevant. The attacking party doesnt need any skills at all: even a person (not a char) that is one day in the game will now be able to catch most ratters. The game becomes too easy imho.



1. Battleship fleets should be slow as balls.
2. And yea warp changes do make it harder to **** up a freighter kill

Note that i'm not saying this as someone that kills a lot of freighters.. Most of the time i have something to do with freighters they have my stuff in them.

Still doesn't mean making them slower is bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#419 - 2013-10-18 22:21:36 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287366&find=unread

If this hasn't been noticed/addressed yet might be worth having a look over. Seems a little worrying/broken

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#420 - 2013-10-19 01:24:40 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

So let's see how big the dropoff in people online after the Christmas holidays. Sub rates always lag the dropoff in people online, but I fully expect a ton of people to say "screw it, the game's fun factor has dropped too much"...


You can add my 3 accounts. I will not resubs any of my account until CCP stop being stupid. Really, this patch is truly one of the worst patch ever made by them.