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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

First post First post
Author
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#301 - 2013-10-08 22:47:08 UTC
The counter to an interceptor gang is to make sure that anything that an interceptor gang can catch is able to break tackle before the cavalry comes, or be scary enough to make the enemy believe that you aren't worth tackling because it will result in lost ships. This is done by either fitting a plethora of drones/neuts, or having a few brawler frigates/cruisers nearby to protect you.

This is a very welcome shift in that it completely changes the way the game is played, where survival is difficult and not always guaranteed unless you take measures to defend yourself against players and are vigilant. It's also a great quality of life change in that jumping through gates takes much less time if you're in the right ship.

The only thing I'm worried about is that the prey might become overfished.
GeMiPaT
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#302 - 2013-10-09 00:43:03 UTC
GeMiPaT wrote:
Hi CCP,

Concept is great, I'm sure we'll love it, I checked the tables and I have these comments:

- T1 industrial is currently 4.5 AU/sec, not 3. it needs to remain that fast, don't nerf warp speed things that are already taking ages to align.
- Freighters need a little more love, it also takes ages to align, give him some mooooore speed in warp and a faster start/end of warp. It does have to stay slow but not SLOWER than before, its already a pain today.
- You take cruiser T1 as base, I understand your choice but I hoped that the cruisers had some love as well.
- T2 cruisers are currently 3.75 AU/sec which is 25% more than T1 cruiser, please make sure this stays valid with new system (looks like it is less)
- Please give T2 BC and T2 BS a 25% faster time as well compared to T1 hull. that's not that much, if you look at T1 frig versus T2 it's 50% so please give us a 25% on other T2 equivalent.
- I'm concerned about T2 industrial, they are currently very fast but the table does not help me a lot to figure out that they are still that fast.



I forgot to ask about two main things used in EVE:

-- The Shuttles !!! It needs to gain warp speed very fast, faster than an inty even if warp speed can remain the same
-- The pod has to be the one having the fastest 0 to 3AU/S speed and same for out of warp even if it remains at 3 AU/s
Gekkoh
Circle of Steel Inc.
#303 - 2013-10-09 00:52:49 UTC
Love the changes on the smaller ships.

Don't like them on the high end.

There is no reason why a freighter needs to take any longer than it does now to warp short distances, other than for formula purity. Battleships are also not very much fun to warp around either. I did the Amarr Epic Arc a few months ago and enjoyed it, but it was already annoying enough as it was warping such long distances in a battleship. This just makes it worse.

My suggestion?

Give up on formula purity (and trust me, I understand how satisfying it is to have one formula that works elegantly) and compress the slowdown above BC level. All it does is add tedium to the game.
Angus Adalwin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#304 - 2013-10-09 02:17:37 UTC
After seeing video demonstrations of the effects of warp speed changes, I'm greatly impressed by the incredible speed of the smaller ships (interceptors warp so fast it made my head spin). I do have to question, though, whether it makes a lot of sense to increase warp acceleration for larger vessels, especially if they'll be slowed down as much as the small ships have been sped up. I'd like to see a smaller increase of warp speed time (perhaps even no change) for larger vessels.
Loving the new ships, btw :D
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#305 - 2013-10-09 02:41:45 UTC
Angus Adalwin wrote:
After seeing video demonstrations of the effects of warp speed changes, I'm greatly impressed by the incredible speed of the smaller ships (interceptors warp so fast it made my head spin). I do have to question, though, whether it makes a lot of sense to increase warp acceleration for larger vessels, especially if they'll be slowed down as much as the small ships have been sped up. I'd like to see a smaller increase of warp speed time (perhaps even no change) for larger vessels.
Loving the new ships, btw :D


Cruisers are the same as now. It's only BC+ that have been slowed down. I think it's perfectly reasonable that small ships should get around faster than big ships.
Logicycle
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#306 - 2013-10-09 06:04:26 UTC
This is awesome sauce.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#307 - 2013-10-09 08:23:46 UTC
Gekkoh wrote:
Love the changes on the smaller ships.

Don't like them on the high end.

There is no reason why a freighter needs to take any longer than it does now to warp short distances, other than for formula purity. Battleships are also not very much fun to warp around either. I did the Amarr Epic Arc a few months ago and enjoyed it, but it was already annoying enough as it was warping such long distances in a battleship. This just makes it worse.

My suggestion?

Give up on formula purity (and trust me, I understand how satisfying it is to have one formula that works elegantly) and compress the slowdown above BC level. All it does is add tedium to the game.


There is a gameplay reason for small things being faster to warp than big things.

Its because the small things are supposed to be good at catching the big things.. Thus its not for formula purity, its so those thirty catalysts have an easier time ganking you ^^

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#308 - 2013-10-09 08:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Unforgiven Storm
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And now a quick note on freighters. We knew that we wanted to expand the spread between the slowest warping ships and the fastest, and we didn't want to take the tempting but potentially damaging route of just buffing everything and making the galaxy smaller for every ship.

Obviously there's a fine line to walk here, but I think we found a strong compromise with the amount that we raised the freighter and JF warp speeds. It is definitely an increase in their average warp times, which is intentional. But it's not back breaking and I believe that it's quite well balanced in relation to their massive cargoholds. For trips where faster warp speeds are needed, people always have the choice of taking smaller volumes in something like an industrial or DST.

Options like adding rigs to freighters could very well happen someday, as we're fairly open that that idea and have been giving it some thought. However we're not going to commit to anything along those lines at this time.


Freigthers are used regularly in low sec and null sec to empty silos from POS reaction farms that normally are in dozens of moons around the same planets separated 10k up to 0.1 AU apart. I just did the run in sisi going from moon to moon simulating the warp between 18 towers and took me 3 times more to warp between moons than the current times in tranquility.

This just put a new nail in the the life of pos reaction owners. We don't have a small ship capable of transporting the quantities we need to empty / fill silos and to transport cubes to fuel poses other than these beasts. By doing these changes, small daily tasks that already take several hours every week will now take 3 times more to perform. Please consider adding code that allow the JF and freighters to warp like before for distances smaller than 0.1 AU or we are all going to kill ourselfs.

thank you in advance

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)

thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2013-10-09 10:04:43 UTC
I'd like to see the active tanked skirmish command ships which are used in gangs a little bit faster 3.0 instead of 2.7.
This would make them still viable for cruiser gangs.
Vdr
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#310 - 2013-10-09 12:07:20 UTC
It seems more and more that CCP should just strip the Indy out of eve. Seed it all on the market at set prices.
Clearly they have no interest in it nor anyone on the dev team that actively does it. They therefore have no idea how a change like this affects industrial players.

Nor do they seem to care.
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#311 - 2013-10-09 12:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Falkor1984
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


There is a gameplay reason for small things being faster to warp than big things.

Its because the small things are supposed to be good at catching the big things.. Thus its not for formula purity, its so those thirty catalysts have an easier time ganking you ^^


See, thats the thing. There is no way that you will catch a freighter easier in a small ship with this change of the freighter being in warp longer. The time the freighter is vulnerable at the gate does not change, the freighter just stays in warp longer. People flying small ships will not gain anything by having big ships stay in warp longer. Hence the logic behind making larger ships slower is flawed, and is also not justified in anyway, other than CCP saying they NEED to be slower. If you ask them WHY they need to be slower, they just dont respond.

I mean, one could argue that there needs to be more risk for freighters. I dont agree, but lets say that one thinks there is a need for that. The correct way to do that would be to increase align time, not warp time. That way freighters become more vulnerable to attack. Increasing warp time just increases waiting time for the freighter pilot. Ill repeat it once more: "there is no gameplay in (longer) warp"
Xasnevian
sadfadsfadsadsf
#312 - 2013-10-09 12:13:38 UTC
-1 to slower Freighters and Battleships

+1 to the rest
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#313 - 2013-10-09 12:17:25 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:


Cruisers are the same as now. It's only BC+ that have been slowed down. I think it's perfectly reasonable that small ships should get around faster than big ships.


They are a lot quicker than Freighters already. Did you ever get outrun by a freighter you were trying to catch? I mean, they warp at 0.7 AU and you warp at at least 3.0 AU, you are at least 4-5 times quicker already.
Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
#314 - 2013-10-09 13:33:12 UTC
The only people endorsing making freighters slower, are doing so because they are scared to death that if CCP revisits it they may lose some of their speed gains here on the smaller ships. Noone is asking for that.

Noone is saying inty's shouldn't be faster. They ALREADY ARE. If you couldn't catch an indy/freighter in an inty BEFORE these changes, then to be frank you suck. Horribly. You can easily tackle freighters with rookie ships ffs. After this patch, they will be even faster. That is fine! I don't really see anyone here advocating that the speed changes don't take place on the smaller ships.

I for one am excited about the changes to the smaller ships, but don't understand making ships that are already the slowest in the game slower, just for the heck of it.
Leza MercenaryS
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2013-10-09 14:11:00 UTC
I did some testing with a rorq on sisi. With T2 Hyper spatial rigs and 3x intertia stabs, its somewhat okay, maybe even faster then a cargo rigged rorq on tranqulity atm.

But in doing this I obviously lose some cargo space, the cargobay goes from 137k m3 to 40k m3, so i lose about 97k m3. Okay fine its not such a big deal i still have the 250k m3 ore hold. But for some reason everytime i press "Loot all", the ore that i want to go to the ore hold, ends up in the cargo hold, so i have to move it from cargo bay to ore hold. Atm i will put 5 cans into the cargo bay then move the 130k m3 or so ore into the ore hold twice, fill up the cargo hold again and warp off. I could do this whole manouver in just a few clicks. But since my cargo bay will only be able to fit one can, I could possibly split a second can and then move it, but i am not sure if this will be effective, easiest will probably be to just drag every ore manually into the ore hold.

I suppose I could anchor a giant freight container, and just move the ore straight from the freight container into my ore hold, however they don't fit in a rorqual, so i will need a freighter to anchor it. No matter how I go about this I have to spend more money and do more work and nothing that anyone have said will change the fact that my rorqual will either warp slower or i have to shed cargobay for speed, either way it will move less m3 per hour which yes is an issue. If our hulks output 2 000 000 m3 per hour and i can only move 1 500 000 m3 after this patch then clearly we have a problem.

It might not be back breaking, but its extra inconvinence and it adds up . Like having to go through this ritual of dragging ore into the ore bay and reducing the amount of ore i can haul in a set amount of time. Its extra work for me to do, I am already micromanaging a lot and heres more for me to micro manage.

If the rorqual and orca would be compensated with a bigger ore bay for the speed they lose, i wouldn't have an issue with this warp change at all.
Leza MercenaryS
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2013-10-09 14:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Leza MercenaryS
Falkor1984 wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


There is a gameplay reason for small things being faster to warp than big things.

Its because the small things are supposed to be good at catching the big things.. Thus its not for formula purity, its so those thirty catalysts have an easier time ganking you ^^


See, thats the thing. There is no way that you will catch a freighter easier in a small ship with this change of the freighter being in warp longer. The time the freighter is vulnerable at the gate does not change, the freighter just stays in warp longer. People flying small ships will not gain anything by having big ships stay in warp longer. Hence the logic behind making larger ships slower is flawed, and is also not justified in anyway, other than CCP saying they NEED to be slower. If you ask them WHY they need to be slower, they just dont respond.


You are asuming freighters only warps from a high sec station to a gate, if that was the case i'd agree. But if you use a freighter for picking up cans in space or hauling ore from a grav site or belt, clearly who ever wants to kill the freighter have more time to find the cans the freighter is warping to and wait for the freighter to land.
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#317 - 2013-10-09 15:54:52 UTC
Leza MercenaryS wrote:

You are asuming freighters only warps from a high sec station to a gate, if that was the case i'd agree. But if you use a freighter for picking up cans in space or hauling ore from a grav site or belt, clearly who ever wants to kill the freighter have more time to find the cans the freighter is warping to and wait for the freighter to land.


Eh what? You are saying that freighters are picking up cans from belts in low/nullsec (with non blues in local)? Can u please tell me where that is, so I can put up my pirate head and come shoot them? Big smile

Or are you maybe talking about industrials? Anyway by looking at the alignment a hauler has before warping, will pretty much tell you where he is going anyway. Even with current speeds its really easy to catch them after that. So basically I dont get your point.
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc.
#318 - 2013-10-09 15:59:49 UTC
I don't see why the slope needs to be linear.... why not exponential? That way battleships+ lose maybe 1-2% of warp acceleration while frigates gain 50-75% faster acceleration.

CCP summon your math wizards!
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#319 - 2013-10-09 16:25:23 UTC
Matthias Thullmann wrote:
I don't see why the slope needs to be linear.... why not exponential? That way battleships+ lose maybe 1-2% of warp acceleration while frigates gain 50-75% faster acceleration.

CCP summon your math wizards!


Why is the current proposal bad?
Leza MercenaryS
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2013-10-09 17:33:10 UTC
Falkor1984 wrote:


Eh what? You are saying that freighters are picking up cans from belts in low/nullsec (with non blues in local)?


Well the idea is to warp when there are no neuts in system, but with the warp time being as long as it is, theres no guarantee local will be clear by the time you land, even if you scout a few systems out.