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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#561 - 2013-10-03 16:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
These ships are amazing, CCP!

But they could do with a better laser bonus. Cap reduction? Really? ROF/Optimal/etc might be better.

Or, a 50% reduction in blaster cap usage / 7.5 or 5% (per level) bonus to optimal laser range.


EDIT: The drone bonus is nice! 125mb is great for a cruiser that doesn't have a turret DPS bonus!
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#562 - 2013-10-03 16:14:39 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Was considering optimal bonus instead of cap use. Maybe can continue to consider that. We didn't want to do damage bonus in the role bonus because then you would have like 900 dps covert cloaking cruiser which is way too much. Optimal might work though.



This is a good idea. It would make the ship more versatile for exploration sites, especially if we don't have all racial drones trained up!

Otherwise, everything on this ship seems perfect for the explorer! I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Will be great for long exploration runs away from home.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#563 - 2013-10-03 16:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25%
So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.

You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers...

And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ?



No you misunderstand, I am training those to 5 currently, and that will be there before launch, the question is what is CCP's expectation for these.If they demand lv skills for it then fine If not then they have missed the target.
My personal suggestion, is that the fitting requirement for t2 analysers be reduced to l4.or possibly a meta 4 analyser.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#564 - 2013-10-03 16:25:50 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25%
So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.

You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers...

And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ?



No you misunderstand, I am training those to 5 currently, and that will be there before launch, the question is what is CCP's expectation for these.If they demand lv skills for it then fine If not then they have missed the target.

Ships are balanced around t2 modules, not t1.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#565 - 2013-10-03 16:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25%
So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.

You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers...

And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ?



No you misunderstand, I am training those to 5 currently, and that will be there before launch, the question is what is CCP's expectation for these.If they demand lv skills for it then fine If not then they have missed the target.

Ships are balanced around t2 modules, not t1.


It has not been made clear, but i believe these ships will not require the covert ops skill.this leads me to believe that they are trying to increase the accessability of these vessels. You will need to train up the cloaking skill and the prerequise skills to fit the cloak anyway.
I do not believe, but i could be wrong, that the intention is to make a ship less powerful than the current covert ops ships, and there is nothing to stop them adding features to those to increase the desireability. Have they been through their review yet?

The point is that if the virus strength remains at 5% there is absolutely no reason to fly them apart from pew pew.
A covert ops does the exploring side better.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kenpo
The Guardians of the Beam
#566 - 2013-10-03 16:38:52 UTC
Rhavas wrote:
On a side note, I did some research, analysis and speculation into the names chosen for these two boats.

Here's the EVE Fiction forum thread

Here's my analysis: It May Not Make Sense At First


Well done Rhavas, good read, I enjoyed the revelation of the layers of this onion called EvE.

Caution, rubber gloves and faceshield required when handling this equipment.
Piraal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#567 - 2013-10-03 16:39:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.



It can't be that hard to understand......... Fitting requirements are much lower on 425mm AC, then they are on Heavy pulse, and on a ship that many are saying is going to be very tight, this is kinda a big deal. The cap usage, and the ability to pick damage types are the main reasons why people pick AC, over pulse normally.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2013-10-03 16:44:27 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

It has not been made clear, but i believe these ships will not require the covert ops skill.this leads me to believe that they are trying to increase the accessability of these vessels. You will need to train up the cloaking skill and the prerequise skills to fit the cloak anyway.
I do not believe, but i could be wrong, that the intention is to make a ship less powerful than the current covert ops ships, and there is nothing to stop them adding features to those to increase the desireability. Have they been through their review yet?

The point is that if the virus strength remains at 5% there is absolutely no reason to fly them apart from pew pew.
A covert ops does the exploring side better.

I don't think you understand my point, The +10 virus strength for covert ops ships makes them very powerful in one role. the SOE ships are supposed to be all in one ships capable of pew pew and hacking. by rights it should not be able to do a specialized role better than a t2 ship, but be able to perform its role better than all other ships.

The 35 virus strength that the ship will have is good enough to do null sec sites, but a covert ops will do it better still. the difference is if a covert ops ship is caught in the site it will die, these ships have a fighting chance.

I can only assume that when the +5 virus strength was chosen T2 relic and data analyzers were in mind and not T1 relic and data analyzers.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#569 - 2013-10-03 16:49:40 UTC
The frig just needs to drop a low for a high slot to be sweet.

The cruiser is just plain nuts. I want a stack of em for murdering squids in plexes.

JUSTK is recruiting
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#570 - 2013-10-03 16:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Stratios looks very nice. I like its bonuses - they make sense in Amarr-Gallente exploration ship. 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need should stay, despite of some people propose chage it to dmg bonus for example. No dmg, no rof etc. bonuses, it's not a dedicated combat ship. The only exeption here is role bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers, which seems to me too weak.
I wouldn't touch slot layout as well. 5/5/5 fits perfectly to exploration ship. Some people suggest to change it, but I'm sure according to their private fitting preferences.
Undoubtedly this will be expensive ship, so its drone power and bandwith are reasonable. But I would cut a bit currently huge drone bay capacity to 350 m - it's still a lot of, but not such a vast. Definitely I would enlarge cargo bay instead of - 500 m is really nothing special. I think 750-900 m is much more suitable for long travel exploration ship.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#571 - 2013-10-03 16:52:05 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

It has not been made clear, but i believe these ships will not require the covert ops skill.this leads me to believe that they are trying to increase the accessability of these vessels. You will need to train up the cloaking skill and the prerequise skills to fit the cloak anyway.
I do not believe, but i could be wrong, that the intention is to make a ship less powerful than the current covert ops ships, and there is nothing to stop them adding features to those to increase the desireability. Have they been through their review yet?

The point is that if the virus strength remains at 5% there is absolutely no reason to fly them apart from pew pew.
A covert ops does the exploring side better.

I don't think you understand my point, The +10 virus strength for covert ops ships makes them very powerful in one role. the SOE ships are supposed to be all in one ships capable of pew pew and hacking. by rights it should not be able to do a specialized role better than a t2 ship, but be able to perform its role better than all other ships.

The 35 virus strength that the ship will have is good enough to do null sec sites, but a covert ops will do it better still. the difference is if a covert ops ship is caught in the site it will die, these ships have a fighting chance.

I can only assume that when the +5 virus strength was chosen T2 relic and data analyzers were in mind and not T1 relic and data analyzers.

No i get your point it is a difference in interpretation.
This is an exploration ship so in my opinion that is what it should be best at, it has to uncloak and needs to fefend itself. the covert ops is a covert ops ship and although it can be used for exploration should really never uncloak. The exploration ship should have as good or better hacking abilities.
The covert ops ship should never need to use a weapon as it should never need to be seen, in fact it toes not strictly even need to fit analysers.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Brian VNF
Tax Evasion PLC
#572 - 2013-10-03 16:58:45 UTC
Can we also know the calibration(for rigs) on these things?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#573 - 2013-10-03 16:59:42 UTC
Brian VNF wrote:
Can we also know the calibration(for rigs) on these things?

350

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sane Mei
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#574 - 2013-10-03 17:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sane Mei
I am not sure if anyone posted it before because this thread has 29 pages, but I think you guys should totally change desing of those SoE ships because of that:

Vulcan's star trek ship


It's just my curiosity;
Why you guys used same design as in Star Trek, it was pure mistake I meant you didn't know this or you did it specially because it's look good for example?
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#575 - 2013-10-03 17:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
if we already wann do them abit op why not make them more along the proph means 4 turret and 4 missile hardpoints

Sane Mei wrote:
I am not sure if anyone posted it before because this thread has 29 pages, but I think you guys should totally change desing of those SoE ships because of that:

Vulcan's star trek ship


sry to say but u know there are other ship designs which are stolen ähem sry inspired from stolen from scifi classics. Catalyst and fenrir for Star Wars. Then u have the hurrican which strongly reminds me of X³ and surely some others which i cant remember right now.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#576 - 2013-10-03 17:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
As these ships are specifically designed for exploration, I think they should have an equal or greater bonuse to virus strength than the covert ops scan frigate.

This wouldn't be encroaching on the role of the T2 covert ops frigate because their speciality is probing not hacking.
Gorgoth24
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#577 - 2013-10-03 17:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorgoth24
The stratious combined with the space yurt will be awesome.

That said, TMC was throwing some scary eft numbers around in reference to the damage output of the Stratios. I'm sure you have this in mind, but sentry meta is strong enough imo.
Samara Anninen
#578 - 2013-10-03 17:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
What's really disappointing is that the community is stuck in some old mindset that "anything different = overpowered" or that anything expensive is suddenly overpowered.

This is NOT overpowered. If anything, the frigate needs a buff in damage.


They are different, they don't have analogs (why one should train gallente/amarr skills to use the only ones cloaky exploration damage dealers?) and they overlap with CovOps - why would you ever need one with these beasts?

So, they don't belong to one of the currently existing ship classes which makes them what is called "a fifth wheel of the cart" because they are somewhere between CovOps and usual damage dealing ships.


Pirate ships ARE supposed to be a bit better than T2 ships. Analogues will come, give it time.

Just because a ship class is new does not make it overpowered. Plenty of things can defeat these easily.


But all current pirate ships are just "updated" t1 ships by both skill prerequisites and bonuses. These ones are basically "updated" t2 (by bonuses - CovOps) but with usual pirate prerequisites (racial t1 skills).
This makes me want to born Amarr/Gallente :3

Anyway, its not a good way to design games by adding something which benefits some races over others like in this case - basically new class of ships without counterparts from other two races. So, maybe they should be simply delayed till this counterparts are developed.


Tell taht to the vigilant. It has very pwoerful bonus not find elsewhere and overdamage anything on realistic scenarios (no damage cahrts based on Ogre II are not realistic because you will deal fulld amage to battleships only and some fat BC, but you will be MURDERED if you try to fight an Assault frigate


And what of these should I tell to vigilant? :) "Updated" doesn't mean "always better than t1/t2" - just a different combination of bonuses for different (other than t1/t2) tactics. These new SoE ships are overlapping with some t2 ship classes' roles and in the same time are violating "gank/stealthiness, take only one" rule.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they will be either nerfed before release or in Rubicon 1.1 :3 + they really need covops/recon ships skills as prerequisites.

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#579 - 2013-10-03 17:19:32 UTC
CCP please post any updates to these ship. I can't wait to see more and any adjustments that might have been done.
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#580 - 2013-10-03 17:33:45 UTC
Sane Mei wrote:
I am not sure if anyone posted it before because this thread has 29 pages, but I think you guys should totally change desing of those SoE ships because of that:

Vulcan's star trek ship


It's just my curiosity;
Why you guys used same design as in Star Trek, it was pure mistake I meant you didn't know this or you did it specially because it's look good for example?


Please go and never return.

Surely different artist can come up with similar designs?

Surely it can be an intentional homage?

Surely a stick with a ring on one end is not the most unique design on this planet?

It's a great design. It's a beautiful design. I tip my hat to whoever came up with and then made it happen in game.

Some people will whine about anything.

(Ice) Miner for life.