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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#401 - 2013-10-03 02:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: King Rothgar
CCP Rise wrote:

Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210


Good base at first glance but I'd alter the bonuses some. As others have noted, it should have the a higher virus strength to make it the go to ship for exploration. I also suggest dropping the 20% drone HP bonus for a more traditional 10% damage and HP bonus. Realistically, I see this ship being a 4 slot armor tank with this slot layout. Basic fit should be this:

Highs: Sisters expanded probe launcher, cov ops cloak
Mids: MWD, both analyzer types, probing or drone upgrade
Lows: Rep, DCII, 2x ANP's
Rigs: Probing or analyzing upgrades

Obviously with only a single non-cloak high slot, it has basically no pvp use beyond probing.

CCP Rise wrote:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550


I think I speak for every single player in this game when I say the 50% energy turret capacitor usage bonus should be banished from every single ship in the game. It is the most useless bonus ever as you might as well just use autocannons instead. Get rid of it please (also on all other ships with it). If a damage bonus is too much, give it a range bonus. That would be useful, match the ships design and not be overpowering. Alternatively, a cap recharge bonus would be useful for pve.

Beyond that, it looks fine though once again it should have a higher virus bonus. As with the frigate, I see this revolving around a 4 slot tank with the 5th being a drone damage upgrade. Most practical drone loadout is sentries of course with a pair of drone tracking upgrades. This has some potential pvp use as well using a 1600mm plate instead of a rep. Not sure about the PG though and I don't see it being useful with only an 800mm plate.

Concept art on both is very nicel.Cool

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#402 - 2013-10-03 02:07:58 UTC
To fit the OP issue with the cruiser just take one or two of the turret slots out and give it a real laser bonus like to optimal or damage. Leave everything else the same and those 2 things should fix the OP issue. The issue has nothing to do with the drones, other cruisers have the same and aren't OP. Also 1127DPS is nice, but with Orge IIs aren't ganking much, they are too slow and too easy to kill. Sentries is where there might be an OP isssues.

The frigate needs another high slot, just take a slot from med or low.

And there needs to be a BS version like ALL the other faction races ships.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#403 - 2013-10-03 02:09:24 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
The new cruiser looks amazing.
No reason for me to use a cloaky recon anymore :)


Other than, ya know, EWAR bonuses...

The model beats the hell out of all of EWar bonuses who am I kidding Big smile

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2013-10-03 02:11:02 UTC
Has anyone noticed it's the same 3 or 4 people reposting and saying the ship is OP?

The ship is fine, as I said before. No one will realistically shield gank fit this. It's too expensive. It's like fitting a hull-tanked Cynabal or single-LSE Vigilant and then calling it overpowered. And if cost isn't an issue, it has too little HP.

It sounds like some people here want the ship to be good at NOTHING, because it gives solo and small gangs some guerrilla power over big blob alliances. It also prevents them from getting easy kills in low/null sites.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#405 - 2013-10-03 02:13:35 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Has anyone noticed it's the same 3 or 4 people reposting

You're one to talk. Cool
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#406 - 2013-10-03 02:22:25 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Has anyone noticed it's the same 3 or 4 people reposting

You're one to talk. Cool

Sort of trying to balance out the discussion and inject some sense into it.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2013-10-03 02:31:32 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210

I like it, it could use a drone damage bonus, it will get only about 120 DPS with 1 DDA. The triditional 10% drone dmage and HP bonus would put it up to 180 DPS with a single DDA.
CCP Rise wrote:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550


Here is the "fun" one, it can get reduculous paper DPS and that, rightfully so, scares many people simply due to the fact that is can be actually be applied some of the time.

The 50% cap usage reduction for lasers is silly. It would be nice to see it changed to something more drone or ship oriented. Like a CPU reduction for the covert ops cloaking device or a 25% drone MWD velocity.

Also ditching 2 turret hardpoints will cut back on some of the shield gank paper DPS. And remove about 700 shield HP that is just too much for an armor ship, one that has a resistance bonus at that, maybe split that 700 HP between armor and hull 40-60.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Pavel Lemmont
ScouT LegioN
#408 - 2013-10-03 02:34:22 UTC
the frigate has the same problem with all the so called "exploration" frigates, unless you take away the necessity of a module for scanning probes you need to understand that exploration requires MORE high slots if you want to do some profit of it and also understand that the nature of exploration itself makes that almost any pilot that practice it its a solo runner so please remember that when you design these exploration vessels .
Freako X
Doom Inc
#409 - 2013-10-03 02:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Freako X
Joe Risalo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
HERE THEY ARE

I think we will have a lot of discussion here, these ships will be great for a lot of different things meaning people will be trying to tug them in a few different directions. That's fine!

What we're shooting for is ships that are themed around exploration and therefor make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking, exploration combat sites, anoms, killing anom runners, spying on people, looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.

We're supporting that model with things like:
  • Covert cloaks
  • Exploration role bonuses
  • Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often
  • Extremely high ship agility
  • And more!

    • Anyways you guys can toy around with these specs and let me know what we missed or what you think would be better and I'll try to make everyone happy (which is usually easy).

    Thanks!

    Astero

    Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
    Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

    Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

    Amarr Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to Armor Resists

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    20% bonus to drone hitpoints

    Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
    Capacitor (amount) : 430
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
    Sensor strength: 13
    Signature radius: 35
    Cargo Capacity: 210


    Stratios

    Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
    Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

    Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

    Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
    4% bonus to Armor Resists

    Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
    10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

    Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
    Capacitor (amount) : 1700
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
    Sensor strength: 20
    Signature radius: 150
    Cargo Capacity: 550

    PICTURES (Sorry don't have in-client shots yet)



    Uhh, i'm just kinda wondering... what's that point in the frig, if the cruiser has everything the frig does, and more?

    one will hit market for 50m .. other for 600-700m


    once they really dig in, I really don't think the cruiser will be that much..


    I'm going to agree that there needs to be a difference between the Frigate and Cruiser.

    Cruiser update to .....

    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
    Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Logistic Drone repair amount.
    Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to range of remote armor repair and energy transfer systems.

    I've mentioned it before, but I think that while less sexy, logistics in a covert fleet would be huge.
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #410 - 2013-10-03 02:42:48 UTC
    Freako X wrote:

    I'm going to agree that there needs to be a difference between the Frigate and Cruiser.

    Cruiser update to .....

    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
    Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Logistic Drone repair amount.
    Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to range of remote armor repair and energy transfer systems.

    I've mentioned it before, but I think that while less sexy, logistics in a covert fleet would be huge.

    Not saying that idea is or isn't good, but why would we transform an exploration cruiser into that? Also why would SOE be the ones to develop it?
    Freako X
    Doom Inc
    #411 - 2013-10-03 02:43:43 UTC
    ^^^

    Fits the SOE humanitarian theme.
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #412 - 2013-10-03 02:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
    Freako X wrote:
    ^^^

    Fits the SOE humanitarian theme.

    considering that logi's are typically used as accessories to people blowing each other up, not so much really.

    Edit: Also not understanding the logic behind the 2 being vastly different in purpose to begin with, considering the current pirate lines.
    Mara Rinn
    Cosmic Goo Convertor
    #413 - 2013-10-03 02:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
    I would love to see the laser bonus dropped in preference for logistics bonuses.

    I get nice DPS out of my Gila, so I figure sacrificing something from the Gila to get a covert cloak and ability to use black ops portals and a bonus to logistics? I would give up one sentry drone. So 100Mbps drone bandwidth plus cap and armour transfer range/cap/CPU bonus would be awesome. Not as powerful as an Etana/Augoror/Exequror

    Encourage multi-player cooperation by shifting away from resist bonus to remote tank bonus!

    I am keen to see what you do with the SOE battleship to prevent it out-competing the Sin ;)

    Day 0 Advice for New Players
    Thaddeus Eggeras
    Urkrathos Corp
    #414 - 2013-10-03 02:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
    They don't need to be different, no other faction race frigate, cruiser and bs are really different on their bonuses, so why would these be? They are exploring ships, that are able to defend themselve. The fits are pretty sound, just a could things need to be tweaked and good to go. And a damn BS one too haha!

    I like the 2 lasers with 100% to damage, that will keep it lasers.
    But really I would have rather seem hybrids with shields, they just look like shield boats, too bad :^ (
    Mara Rinn
    Cosmic Goo Convertor
    #415 - 2013-10-03 02:58:21 UTC
    Tyberius Franklin wrote:
    Freako X wrote:
    ^^^

    Fits the SOE humanitarian theme.

    considering that logi's are typically used as accessories to people blowing each other up, not so much really.

    Edit: Also not understanding the logic behind the 2 being vastly different in purpose to begin with, considering the current pirate lines.


    As opposed to lasers and combat drones? Logistics is a pacifist profession in comparison to pew pew laser boats.

    Day 0 Advice for New Players
    Nyancat Audeles
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #416 - 2013-10-03 02:59:59 UTC
    Mara Rinn wrote:
    I would love to see the laser bonus dropped in preference for logistics bonuses.

    I get nice DPS out of my Gila, so I figure sacrificing something from the Gila to get a covert cloak and ability to use black ops portals and a bonus to logistics? I would give up one sentry drone. So 100Mbps drone bandwidth plus cap and armour transfer range/cap/CPU bonus would be awesome. Not as powerful as an Etana/Augoror/Exequror

    Encourage multi-player cooperation by shifting away from resist bonus to remote tank bonus!

    I am keen to see what you do with the SOE battleship to prevent it out-competing the Sin ;)


    No no no! This ship was designed to be a solo exploration ship. For the lone mission runner / DED complex runner. Sacrificing it's DPS for logi capabilities would make it less effective at the purpose it was designed for, and would become useless for its intended audience.

    Next thing, big blob alliances would buy large clusters of these and all of nullsec will be faced with covert logistics. That would be bad.

    Also, these can't use covops jump portals. They aren't T2.
    Mara Rinn
    Cosmic Goo Convertor
    #417 - 2013-10-03 03:00:17 UTC
    Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
    They don't need to be different, no other faction race frigate, cruiser and bs are really different on their bonuses, so why would these be? They are exploring ships, that are able to defend themselve. The fits are pretty sound, just a could things need to be tweaked and good to go. And a damn BS one too haha!

    I like the 2 lasers with 100% to damage, that will keep it lasers.
    But really I would have rather seem hybrids with shields, they just look like shield boats, too bad :^ (


    Sure, dropping the logistics ideas these boats look nice: you have to make compromises to fit them which is IMHO something many ships are missing.

    I can't wait!

    Day 0 Advice for New Players
    Freako X
    Doom Inc
    #418 - 2013-10-03 03:04:09 UTC
    Tyberius Franklin wrote:
    Freako X wrote:
    ^^^

    Fits the SOE humanitarian theme.

    considering that logi's are typically used as accessories to people blowing each other up, not so much really.

    Edit: Also not understanding the logic behind the 2 being vastly different in purpose to begin with, considering the current pirate lines.


    I guess the humanitarian 'healer' logistic idea could depend on your perception. But it fits more than a turret based bonus. I don't see SOE actively shooting people. Healing and repairing ships? More inline ... even if those ships turn around and try to blow somebody else up. Logistics for a covert fleet is a missing niche in the game.

    The cruiser doesn't really need a virus bonus as most people will use it to run DED sites and not hack. That makes it a somewhat useless bonus.

    On a different topic, I'd also like to see the frigate have 3H, 4M, 4L slots so it can equip 2x turrets with covert ops and/or scanner, covert ops, and one turret/utility. It's been mentioned before but the most unused covert ops ship is the Gallente one with only 2H slots.
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #419 - 2013-10-03 03:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
    Mara Rinn wrote:
    Tyberius Franklin wrote:
    Freako X wrote:
    ^^^

    Fits the SOE humanitarian theme.

    considering that logi's are typically used as accessories to people blowing each other up, not so much really.

    Edit: Also not understanding the logic behind the 2 being vastly different in purpose to begin with, considering the current pirate lines.


    As opposed to lasers and combat drones? Logistics is a pacifist profession in comparison to pew pew laser boats.

    I'm not the one who stated they would create a humanitarian ship, so your looking at the wrong person for that reasoning. The SOE I've worked for has no qualms about telling me to kill NPC's and even gives me shiny exploration goods for it (which are frequently used to find more NPC's or players to kill). For THAT SOE these ships fit quite well.
    Mara Rinn
    Cosmic Goo Convertor
    #420 - 2013-10-03 03:10:55 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Naomi Anthar wrote:
    Grarr Dexx wrote:
    More bandwidth on a cruiser than on any battleship? Are the rest of the pirate factions going to be following this design trend? This is just better than the Gila in every way.


    You may be correct ... but pirate ships are before balance pass. So this Gila may be diffrent from new Gila.


    Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.


    So … drone + ECM, dropping the missile bonus?

    Day 0 Advice for New Players