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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#381 - 2013-10-03 01:30:34 UTC
I wanna BLOPS people with that cruiser so hard! No honestly, 125mbit doesn't go well with a cloak I fear. Fleets of that thing (as it is a sentry heavy droneboat with a covert cloak and armorresistboni) will be all over w-space, pls do not introduce a covops-ishtar!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2013-10-03 01:31:06 UTC
Vincent Ageon wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved


The drone bay is fine as is. Given the role of extended deployment/exploration a large drone bay is necessary. If you can't replace lost drones while deployed deep in nullsec then the ship is useless. That's why the drone bay and cargo are so large, its a necessity of the role.



Carry a mobile fitting array and you wont ever need to have a large drone bay unless you were PvPing and didnt know what you were engaging.

Too many unknowns there. At first thought we don't know how easy those will be to transport, fuel or otherwise supply. They also will provide what you don't want, which is a beacon for a good spot to lay a trap. Being glued to one spot or a structure is again the antithesis of the design intent.
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#383 - 2013-10-03 01:31:39 UTC
Reducing the drone bay is pointless. It will only effect how long you can explore null/wormhole space (which is the purpose of the SoE cruiser. Long deployment exploration that can bite back). It doesn't address CPU issues, how to entice people to fit lasers on it, or its damage output. Lets please move on.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#384 - 2013-10-03 01:33:44 UTC
Endo Saissore wrote:
Reducing the drone bay is pointless. It will only effect how long you can explore null/wormhole space (which is the purpose of the SoE cruiser. Long deployment exploration that can bite back). It doesn't address CPU issues, how to entice people to fit lasers on it, or its damage output. Lets please move on.


I have to second this, the issue here is more about drones than about the SoE cruiser itself.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#385 - 2013-10-03 01:34:29 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
I wanna BLOPS people with that cruiser so hard! No honestly, 125mbit doesn't go well with a cloak I fear. Fleets of that thing (as it is a sentry heavy droneboat with a covert cloak and armorresistboni) will be all over w-space, pls do not introduce a covops-ishtar!

This is not a cov-ops Ishtar. Without a tracking bonus Sentries aren't able to project damage to anything above a battle cruiser. Ishtar wins with drone damage application.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#386 - 2013-10-03 01:35:06 UTC
I do agree the CPU needs to be looked more into. I do think the frigate should have 3 high slots, just to give it more options all in all.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#387 - 2013-10-03 01:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
M1k3y Koontz wrote:



Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.

Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus.

My problem is it does 1127 dps before heat. That's twice as much as a cloaky proteus, and 3 times as much as a typical cloaky loki.

In a typical nullsec site (the one's that people run solo anyway) you'll get about 400-600 incoming dps from the npc's, and then that cruiser uncloaks on top of you and...boom. As a ganker, I think it's a little over the top.

I'll use the ship to gank along with everyone else, but there's a point where it stops being reasonable. You're getting Talos levels of dps on a cruiser with a covops cloak. And the Talos uses blasters, and the Talos gank fit only has 29k ehp, and that had to be nerfed in one of the recent patches.

IDK, it just seems a bit much for a covops cruiser. But I'll happily retire my Cloaky Proteus when it comes out, I guess...
Constans Macob
Satori Inc.
#388 - 2013-10-03 01:43:11 UTC
I'd like to see the following changes to the Stratios

Replace the cap need bonus with a 100% Medium energy turret damage
Reduce the turret hardpoints to 2
Reduce the high slots to 4
Increase the low slots to 6
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#389 - 2013-10-03 01:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Did thanks, and sorry
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#390 - 2013-10-03 01:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Can we see how it is fitted t o do 1127 DPS please.

[Snip]

Edit : Here.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#391 - 2013-10-03 01:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
PotatoOverdose wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:



Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.

Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus.

My problem is it does 1127 dps before heat. That's twice as much as a cloaky proteus, and 3 times as much as a typical cloaky loki.

In a typical nullsec site (the one's that people run solo anyway) you'll get about 400-600 incoming dps from the npc's, and then that cruiser uncloaks on top of you and...boom. As a ganker, I think it's a little over the top.

I'll use the ship to gank along with everyone else, but there's a point where it stops being reasonable. You're getting Talos levels of dps on a cruiser with a covops cloak. And the Talos uses blasters, and the Talos gank fit only has 29k ehp, and that had to be nerfed in one of the recent patches.

IDK, it just seems a bit much for a covops cruiser. But I'll happily retire my Cloaky Proteus when it comes out, I guess...


Put your fit where your mouth is. Put your fit here on the forums, that way we can see ALL the stats, including the ugly ones that blow your cries of "OP!!!" out of the water.

Edit:

PotatoOverdose wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Can we see how it is fitted t o do 1127 DPS please.

Read the dam thread, it's been linked four or five times.

Edit : For the Lazy.


Can't hurt to trot it out again.
Your specific version that got you 1127 DPS, thank you.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#392 - 2013-10-03 01:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Check the post directly above yours. Le sigh.

M1k3y Koontz wrote:


Put your fit where your mouth is. Put your fit here on the forums, that way we can see ALL the stats, including the ugly ones that blow your cries of "OP!!!" out of the water.


When a boat with 1127 dps uncloaks on top of you in a site where the rats are already doing 400-600 dps to you...

Edit: It's right there.

And it isn't MY fit. And it says, right there void-1127.
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#393 - 2013-10-03 01:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Endo Saissore
PotatoOverdose wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:



Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.

Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus.

My problem is it does 1127 dps before heat. That's twice as much as a cloaky proteus, and 3 times as much as a typical cloaky loki.

In a typical nullsec site (the one's that people run solo anyway) you'll get about 400-600 incoming dps from the npc's, and then that cruiser uncloaks on top of you and...boom. As a ganker, I think it's a little over the top.

I'll use the ship to gank along with everyone else, but there's a point where it stops being reasonable. You're getting Talos levels of dps on a cruiser with a covops cloak. And the Talos uses blasters, and the Talos gank fit only has 29k ehp, and that had to be nerfed in one of the recent patches.

IDK, it just seems a bit much for a covops cruiser. But I'll happily retire my Cloaky Proteus when it comes out, I guess...


You may have a cov-ops cruiser doing a Talo's damage, but you'll also be paying 5X as much to get it. Thats like complaining that a Navy Brutix does too much damage compared to a standard Brutix. You have to account for the price of the hull my friend.

Also you can't compare it to a tech 3 cruiser. Tech3 cruisers are very generalized, so they aren't the best at anything, just really good at everything.

*Edit Your gank fit has no webs. Paper DPS may be high, but Damage Application is very very low. You'll need two webs with Neutron blasters and Void ammo. Basically you're getting 1127 DPS that says *Misses* a lot.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#394 - 2013-10-03 01:56:07 UTC
I'm HIGHLY skeptical about the EHP of this 1100 DPS fit. Without a damage control, and on a shield tanked ship with an armor bonus 35k EHP seems absurdly high. The fact that only an AB fits is also telling, you're pushing your ship to the limit of its fitting ability, and if you want to fit an MWD like any other PVP ship, you'd need an ancillary rig or smaller guns.

Basicly, you're trotting out the SOE cruiser version of the 1 million EHP Proteus. It can be fit up that way, but nobody does.


As for rat DPS, that DPS is on the ship when a cloaky Prot or cloaky Loki decloaks on it as well, so that means nothing.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#395 - 2013-10-03 01:56:47 UTC
Guys, seriously, stop with asking about the SOE Battleship. They already said it'll be on the way long term, but it's not gonna be here for the winter.. so it being asked once a page is getting really old.

I understand the change/edit to the Drone HP vs DPS.. But I still would like to see something added to the drones.. I've had enough of the tracking speed bonus that we've seen lately, not that it's bad, just has been done.

My idea would be to make the second half of the drone bonus the drone mwd speed, like the Algos has. So..
20% Bonus to Drone Hitpoints and MWD Speed.

Leave the Drone bay alone.. I like the extra room, even more needed for one that is running sites for Salvage drones, and a good mix of Light/Medium/Heavy/Sentries.. And with no dps bonus to the hull at all, the added room for selection is nice.


Only other comment that I really agree with is on the frig, it needs an extra high slot to be useful. It really does.. Cloak and 2 guns, or cloak and probes, or whatever.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#396 - 2013-10-03 02:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I'm HIGHLY skeptical about the EHP of this 1100 DPS fit. Without a damage control, and on a shield tanked ship with an armor bonus 35k EHP seems absurdly high. The fact that only an AB fits is also telling, you're pushing your ship to the limit of its fitting ability, and if you want to fit an MWD like any other PVP ship, you'd need an ancillary rig or smaller guns.

Basicly, you're trotting out the SOE cruiser version of the 1 million EHP Proteus. It can be fit up that way, but nobody does.


As for rat DPS, that DPS is on the ship when a cloaky Prot or cloaky Loki decloaks on it as well, so that means nothing.

Well, it has two LSE's and an Invuln so it's not exactly untanked.

Also, look up just about any pilgrim fit. Almost all of them (with the exception of the double plated ones) have 20-30k ehp. And pilgrims were at one point one of the most feared solo ships in eve. Also, as I've said before, typical pilgrim fit is/was ab+scram and it worked.

You're absolutely right about rats being there for proteus/loki as well, but the Difference between taking 500 rat dps + 500 proteus dps and taking 500 rat dps +1127 SOE cruiser DPS is absolutely massive.

Edit: Like I said, If it launches with these stats, I'll be happy to retire my proteus. Cool
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2013-10-03 02:04:58 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:


THIS.

It's an exploration ship. Stop focusing on PvP. EFT DPS is NOT EFFECTIVE DPS.

EDIT: Shield gank fit anything, and that's exactly what it will be: Shield gank with high dps.

But nerfing a ship based on how it performs in a shield gank role is plain stupid. Because then for the actual purpose of the ship - long deployment exploration - it will be absolutely useless.

"I don't care what anything was designed to do, I care about what it can do. " ~Apollo 13

And it isn't in a shield gank role, it's in a cloaky gank role which puts it in a fundamentally different category. The ship, in its current form, can fit that role regardless of what else it was designed to do. It's up to CCP to decide if it does cloaky ganking too well, well enough, or not well enough.

There are two types of people in this thread, those that see what this ship will be used for in pvp, and those that want to run 6/10's without using a scout alt to check the gate if its clear to jump in the next system.



Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.

Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus.


This too. The cruiser really sucks when shield gank fit.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#398 - 2013-10-03 02:05:38 UTC
The new cruiser looks amazing.
No reason for me to use a cloaky recon anymore :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#399 - 2013-10-03 02:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Endo Saissore
I had posted this earlier but I'll restate the idea.

Everything about this ship is good except for the Role Bonus of Capacitor Usage for Lasers. I'm sorry but no one will fit lasers.

For PVE/Exploration in wormholes I'm going to have a Cov-ops, Probe-Launcher, Salvager, and two autocannons in my highs (Because they don't use cap and I'll be active tanked)

For PvP I'll have a Cov-ops, Probe Launcher, and 3 Neutron blasters to make up for the lost turret. I'll have dual webs in the mids to apply the damage.
Why oh why would I fit lasers?

There is a quick and easy fix for this. Have only 2 turret hardpoints. Role Bonus: 100% damage to laser turrets.

Now in PvP fits I can have my Cov-Ops cloak, Probe Launcher, Utility High, and I HAVE to fit lasers to get the most out of it. And this will quiet those who fear Cloaky Blaster Ganks. No one is ganking anyone with two unbonused blasters.

*Edit: This also clears up CPU problems because there are two less turrets. And since you are using half of the laser turrets the cap bonus is built in Big smile
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#400 - 2013-10-03 02:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
PotatoOverdose wrote:

You're absolutely right about rats being there for proteus/loki as well, but the Difference between taking 500 rat dps + 500 proteus dps and taking 500 rat dps +1127 SOE cruiser DPS is absolutely massive.


The pilgrim also had a web, active tank, and tracking disruptor.

My point about the rats is that they're irrelevant. Nobody counts them when comparing CLokis and Cloaky Prots, so why drag them up now? The only reason to demagogue the SOE cruiser into some terror. CCP's approach so far has been "Lets try this and see what happens" and if its OP they'll nerf it.

Fact of the matter is that the 1100 DPS fit isn't practical, and when it goes live that fit will be used in an underwhelming minority of cases as people favor MWD fits with ions (lost DPS) and probably more tank (DCU) so they can get a good bump on their target and survive longer.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.