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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Gothikia
Le Goobers
#2641 - 2013-11-11 06:17:10 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Wow. Some of you guys really can't wrap your heads around the idea of a ship using drones as the primary or possibly only weapon.



Really?

CCP Rise wrote:
50% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range


Seems like a primary weapons system to me.

I dunno what it is about Rise preferring drones over lasers (I will never forgive you for what you done to the Armageddon mate), but drone hitpoints bonus is about as useful as male nipples. If your drones are getting shot at, most likely they're going to frakking die and useless unless you have a great supply of them. The fitting on these ships are far too tight and as such, is negating the intention of making them self sufficient deep space exploration ships.

@CCP Rise, show us how you'd honestly fit this ship. Post your EFT fit for the Stratios or GTFO. Lets see if you finally realize how much of a bone headed idea those stats are.

<3 Gothie
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2642 - 2013-11-11 06:59:30 UTC
Gothikia wrote:
@CCP Rise, show us how you'd honestly fit this ship. Post your EFT fit for the Stratios or GTFO. Lets see if you finally realize how much of a bone headed idea those stats are.


We never did get to see how a 6/10-capable Stratios would have been fitted.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2643 - 2013-11-11 08:59:09 UTC
Gothikia wrote:


Really?

CCP Rise wrote:
50% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range


Seems like a primary weapons system to me.


Then you didn't notice the Stratios also has a drone damage bonus. You can ultimately get more dps out of 4 heavies or sentries than you can out of the 4 medium lasers, and you don't have to worry about cap, and you get the all of damage types.

It's a drone boat. Deal with it.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2644 - 2013-11-11 09:07:46 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Kosetzu wrote:
Possible gatecamps, bubbles, smartbombers etc etc that may be waiting on that gate? I don't have a safe for every gate in the universe.


Unless it's an exceptionally stupid camp that doesn't have a can to decloak you on their drag bubble, I fail to see how warping to a gate uncloaked vs cloaked, all else being equal, can really hurt you. You'll either hit a bubble and get decloaked or you'll reach the gate and decloak when you land on it.



Well that woudl also need a stupid stratios pilot to warp from the obvious direction. Or do you put 1 can on the direction of EACH moon in system?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#2645 - 2013-11-11 09:08:54 UTC
Don't really see as to how these are supposed to work at all with these fitting issues.

Doesn't really function as a deep space explorer whatsoever. I wish it did, that's what I wanted.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2646 - 2013-11-11 09:10:31 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I will agree that the lack of 5 drones on the cruiser is a deal breaker for the idea of a deep space PvE. You need 5 well skilled heavies or sentries to run nullsec sites.


How very fortunate then that the Stratios was in fact not designed with nullsec sites in mind and that those are actually intended to be under the purview of the yet-unreleased SoE battleship.



Which is kind of dumb, given that most nullsec stuff can be ran in Ishtars or Gilas. Navy Vexors can do lower end anoms.


If CCP is really expecting the SoE BS to be the Nullsec plex runner, they really haven't been paying attention to what people in nullsec actually do.


They blob, crash nodes and then complain in the forusm how they cannot show how leet their skills are by pressing F1 when the FC tells them to do it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Khan Naveh
Shadowfyre Industries
#2647 - 2013-11-11 16:43:07 UTC
Glaring problem with the Stratios and the rigs. 350 Calibration will not cut it. If we put a Medium Emissions Scope Sharpener I rig on it we can NOT put on a Medium Memetic Algorithm Bank I as well. So we need 2 ships or swap out rigs every time we want to swap from running a data site to a relic site? Please raise the calibration to 400 so we can run both sites with a bonus and not have to run back to a station or refit.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2648 - 2013-11-11 17:09:32 UTC
Deralictai Miromme wrote:
Wow so the SoE ships (cruiser in particular) just went from awesome to mediocre in one fell swoop. If these are supposed to be cloaky drone based exploration ships why not keep the 125 bandwidth and remove some/all turret points? And if these are supposed to be laser based exploration ships why not just remove the drone bandwidth even more and give them better laser bonuses?


Yep it not even matter of ships strenght it's a matter of its strong theme. 4 heavy/sentries is meh, so are the unbonused lasers. I agree thet its dps was a little to high so either:

1) take away 1 or 2 turret slots from it and give 5th drone back.

or

2) even further reduce it to 75 mb/s and give some dps bonus for lasers (like + 25% dps for medium energy turrets).

Just make the ship strong based on a weapon system, not make it a mix of everything and nothing.
Hawk Firestorm
The-Enclave
#2649 - 2013-11-11 17:19:53 UTC
Sad thing about these is you didn't make them modular like the Tengu etc, and where's the larger classes???

Infact why haven't you gotten around to revamping ships entirely so a 'Battleship' is actually a capital ship not some wimpy left over the size of a peanut.

I want a battleship the size of a carrier in line and scale with the rest of the capital ships.

All the ships need reclassifying and preferably all made modular so the player has one ship hull for it racial class and size and can customise it to do what he needs it to do.

Simplify eve but at the same time add functionality.

The SOE ship models look refreshing, the cruiser model tbh should be the battleship model and upscaled dramatically IMHO.

But I definately want to see all ships go modular, where the modules change the ship appearence and function and even its tier based on what's fitted.

Instead of the ever increasing mountain of ships and skills.
Hawk Firestorm
The-Enclave
#2650 - 2013-11-11 17:26:28 UTC
Gothikia wrote:
[quote=Shepard Wong Ogeko]Wow. Some of you guys really can't wrap your heads around the idea of a ship using drones as the primary or possibly only weapon.


Reason is they added in Drone agro, which was a bad bad bad idea no other ship weapon has the possibility of having its main damage dealing system blown off.

So until they revert it to days of old, drone ships won't fly with many a pilot.
Esil Da
Doomheim
#2651 - 2013-11-11 18:58:03 UTC
What peoples think about this combination ArrowArrowArrow

Drone band. 25mb/s


Role Bonus:
37.5%(or more) increase Scan Prob Strength
100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks and probe launchers

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
60% heavy missile damage
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists


[Stratus]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Relic Analyzer II
Data Analyzer II
10MN Afterburner II
10MN Microwarpdrive II

Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Salvager II
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II



Hobgoblin II x5


In this combination, at 5lvl dps drones/missiles ~550(i think , not too hi, not too low, plus all tools for the exploration.
Possible create twin offensive, with twin bonuses. Example: missiles/laser
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#2652 - 2013-11-11 20:01:04 UTC
Esil Da wrote:
Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
60% heavy missile damage
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

While I salute your attempt at making the highslot weapons useful, I do think the idea of lasers is good because of the ammo usage. Missiles limits the idea of being able to fly around without caring about ammo.

It is rather boring with a optimal bonus to the lasers, as I currently find tight-orbiting with Heavy Drones & Pulse Lasers a lot more efficient than trying to snipe with this ship. While having the armor resist bonus is needed if you're supposed to armor-tank this ship with so little HP I'd rather have it as a role bonus and have the Amarr Cruiser skill be something like rate of fire or damage on lasers to make them meaningful.

The Astero on the other hand has no damage bonus at all, only drone HP which is just silly bad if you don't suck at controlling them. Feels like an expensive Covert Ops ships to me, only it can field 3 sets of light drones, but dies quick enough anyways.
Esil Da
Doomheim
#2653 - 2013-11-11 20:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Esil Da
Kosetzu wrote:
Esil Da wrote:
Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
60% heavy missile damage
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

While I salute your attempt at making the highslot weapons useful, I do think the idea of lasers is good because of the ammo usage. Missiles limits the idea of being able to fly around without caring about ammo.

It is rather boring with a optimal bonus to the lasers, as I currently find tight-orbiting with Heavy Drones & Pulse Lasers a lot more efficient than trying to snipe with this ship. While having the armor resist bonus is needed if you're supposed to armor-tank this ship with so little HP I'd rather have it as a role bonus and have the Amarr Cruiser skill be something like rate of fire or damage on lasers to make them meaningful.

The Astero on the other hand has no damage bonus at all, only drone HP which is just silly bad if you don't suck at controlling them. Feels like an expensive Covert Ops ships to me, only it can field 3 sets of light drones, but dies quick enough anyways.



Please make your variation , i only started Smile

Lasers have one big minus, theys have only EM/Thermal damage, only against Sleepers, Sansha ships and PVP that good ....
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2654 - 2013-11-11 20:21:06 UTC
Hawk Firestorm wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Wow. Some of you guys really can't wrap your heads around the idea of a ship using drones as the primary or possibly only weapon.


Reason is they added in Drone agro, which was a bad bad bad idea no other ship weapon has the possibility of having its main damage dealing system blown off.

So until they revert it to days of old, drone ships won't fly with many a pilot.



I use drone boats to grind rats all the time. All you need to do is learn what modules can be used to pull agro, and carry some spare drones in case you do manage to lose a couple.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2655 - 2013-11-11 21:21:24 UTC
The prim weapon is drones, but IF they wanted to make it so lasers were used at all, they should have given it a real bonus, I will usually use Proj, or hybrids them. I mean I "might" use lasers in my exploring PvE one, but PvP I'll use either proj, or blasters.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2656 - 2013-11-11 21:25:02 UTC
Quote:
I agree, and there use in exploring and the new exploring sites will help them stay in high demand also. I do wish the Stratios had a better bonus then the 50% the optmial range for lasers, it won't keep people from using proj or hybrids on them at all. If they gave it 100% damage bonus and only gave it 2 gun slots and took one high slot out then lasers would pretty much need to be used. But where would that high slot end up, med or low? Or would keeping the 5th high slot work better? It would also need a slight PG and CPU reduction too.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#2657 - 2013-11-11 21:29:20 UTC
i cant understand why some people dislike the drones as main weapon system.

drones are excelent for exploration. (they may be even the best weapon system for exploration)
-they have dmg flexibility
-they have a great bandwidth of application along the sizes + sentries
-they don't use ammo and cargo space
-you can even use em to escape gankers (ec-***) which other weapon system can do that?

and they aren't good in pvp (with few exceptions) so they can be balanced to be strong in pve (->exploration) without being op in pvp.....
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2658 - 2013-11-12 03:56:42 UTC
A Stratios flies across New Eden and meats a Gila.

The Stratios say 'hi, I'm a Stratios and the new super sexy pirate drone boat',

The Gila looks and says, 'hi, I'm a Gila and a pirate drone boat'.

The Stratios says, 'I can warp cloaked and explore space and even do DED 6/10 plexes with mah 4 heavy / sentry drones..'

The Gila wanted to respond but she thought it was a joke, launched her 5 Ogre II's and 25 seconds later the Stratios goes boom...

The End.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2659 - 2013-11-12 04:54:39 UTC
I better stick to a gila with a T2 cloak+core probe launcher and MWD to run plexes in null. And if i get blown up i probs lost less ISK then with the stratios which costs more LP.
Esil Da
Doomheim
#2660 - 2013-11-12 05:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Esil Da
Kane Fenris wrote:
i cant understand why some people dislike the drones as main weapon system.

drones are excelent for exploration. (they may be even the best weapon system for exploration)
-they have dmg flexibility
-they have a great bandwidth of application along the sizes + sentries
-they don't use ammo and cargo space
-you can even use em to escape gankers (ec-***) which other weapon system can do that?

and they aren't good in pvp (with few exceptions) so they can be balanced to be strong in pve (->exploration) without being op in pvp.....





----- Answer to question "" i cant understand why some people dislike the drones as main weapon system."" , was writed early >>

Hawk Firestorm wrote:
Gothikia wrote:
[quote=Shepard Wong Ogeko]Wow. Some of you guys really can't wrap your heads around the idea of a ship using drones as the primary or possibly only weapon.


Reason is they added in Drone agro, which was a bad bad bad idea no other ship weapon has the possibility of having its main damage dealing system blown off.

So until they revert it to days of old, drone ships won't fly with many a pilot.


------ "" and they aren't good in pvp (with few exceptions) so they can be balanced to be strong in pve (->exploration) without being op in pvp.....""" Funny, where you find that thesis ... PVP theys good in assault mode or piracy(that only few examples),

PVE after added drone aggro, that totally changed : If in the site are simply NPCs you start clean with small drones, after with medium and Heavy or sentry. May you will say sentry is the best, i will saw, how you hit NPC frigates in close range Smile
Plus use sentry drones you lost speed, speed=tank(i try in singularity run 4lvl SOE mission, without AB speed tank go out fast)
Next one problem with drones is: when in the DED site NPC blob are few very evil frigates and theys can't aggro because theys are trigger. What you think do in that situation ??? when you not easy tanking one group, around lurking others 3x groups and in theys group are evil frigates not in aggro on you, but theys aggro on the your drones. In this situation you need first eliminate evil frigates. Start aggro on theys, theys trigger all groups your tank gone very fast , too hi risk to your ship, rescently rewarpbeying eliminate all evil frigates after that standart cleaning. Possible and simply 1 group when in one group are evil frigates, that time only lost few drones without risk to ship Smile Best way is eliminate evil frigates or cruisers with missiles or gunnary.
NOW, all that time need tanking large emaunt of the NPCs[BS/BC/Cruisers and other frigates], what a tank need do that ?? Stratios effective HP go out fast in this situationand if not use AB in speed tank , Stratios effective HP gone much faster(I will saw how you tank with sentry drones ).
In WH every NPC is evil, i'm don't know how clean with drones, but i heard about ppls who do that ....
I'm not talk about sites under 4/10, theys are easy.

------ ""-they don't use ammo and cargo space"" drones are ammunition and weapons, they does not protect ship defense system. Please compare standart gunnary/missiles ammunition and drone prices

Result - Problems more than enough, Drones best for help main gunnary or launcher offensive, clean the simply NPCs(for time economy)