These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2561 - 2013-11-06 18:51:41 UTC
People cry the ship is OP for PvP so they end up nerfing the ships PvE capabilities and leave the PvP capabilities mostly unchanged.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2562 - 2013-11-06 19:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Niena Nuamzzar
After some consideration and much thought What? I've concluded that perhaps it would be best to simply mix lots of suggestions into one bag, give it to the crowd and make most of the people happy. You can't stop this ship from being extremely dangerous stealthy sneaker anyway so why ruin it for what it was originally designed - exploration? Here goes, a mixed bag:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage and optimal range
Role Bonus: 40% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +10 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
5% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to light / medium and 7.5% bonus to heavy / sentry drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 4H, 5M, 6L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG, 410 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1750 / 2500 / 2400
Capacitor (amount) : 1950
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 750
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2563 - 2013-11-06 21:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
After some consideration and much thought What? I've concluded that perhaps it would be best to simply mix lots of suggestions into one bag, give it to the crowd and make most of the people happy. You can't stop this ship from being extremely dangerous stealthy sneaker anyway so why ruin it for what it was originally designed - exploration? Here goes, a mixed bag:

You make some good points, but maybe it's tweaked a little too much. Also note you used a 5%-per-level bonus that no longer exists. 4% per level is the max anywhere ever.

Perhaps... (I'll bold my changes)

Stratios

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage and optimal range
Role Bonus: 40% increase Scan Probe Strength
Role Bonus: +10 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to light / medium and 7.5% bonus to heavy / sentry drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG, 410 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1750 / 2500 / 2400
Capacitor (amount / recharge time) : 1850, 456s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 750
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2564 - 2013-11-06 21:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
After some consideration and much thought What? I've concluded that perhaps it would be best to simply mix lots of suggestions into one bag, give it to the crowd and make most of the people happy. You can't stop this ship from being extremely dangerous stealthy sneaker anyway so why ruin it for what it was originally designed - exploration? Here goes, a mixed bag:

You make some good points, but maybe it's tweaked a little too much. Also note you used a 5%-per-level bonus that no longer exists. 4% per level is the max anywhere ever.

Perhaps... (I'll bold my changes)

Stratios

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage and optimal range
Role Bonus: 40% increase Scan Probe Strength
Role Bonus: +10 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to light / medium and 7.5% bonus to heavy / sentry drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG, 410 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1750 / 2500 / 2400
Capacitor (amount / recharge time) : 1850, 456s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 750

Personally I would like the extra low and the original high but probably would be asking for too muchBig smile
But I would happily fly either of these.
Much closer to intended thoughts I think.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Prisoner No14
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2565 - 2013-11-06 21:51:45 UTC
Lol no reason to buy this. I'm sticking with the ishtar. 100m3 bandwidth is lame.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2566 - 2013-11-06 21:53:26 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Personally I would like the extra low and the original high but probably would be asking for too muchBig smile
But I would happily fly either of these.
Much closer to intended thoughts I think.


The ship is 5/5/5 right now, of course. Giving it a 6-slot low rack plus 125 bandwidth would probably result in a net gain in large drone DPS after 3 DDAs, even with the reduced damage bonuses.

The 4-slot high rack irks me a bit, too. Do you know how annoying it is to stop and switch out my cloak for a remote armor/hull rep after every significant fight? Since we're "throwing out a mixed bag" we might as well leave the slot layout alone to prevent weird imbalances and to allow the original high level of available utility.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2567 - 2013-11-06 21:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
I know it's not a sexy thing like damage or armor/shields but there may be a problem.

When travelling with the covert ops cloak on sisi, using stratios/astero travelling has become a nightmare.

There appears to be no bonus to recloak delay, which by default is 30 seconds.This may either be deliberate or overlooked?

On it's own this means having to wait at Gates etc for the time to pass before continuing in the normal manner for a covert ops equipped ship.Although annoying, players can adapt even though it makes travel slow and removes the gain from warp drive mechanics.also due to much faster warp there is no time to warp away and then decloak so you are ready for the next gate.

Aside from this....

The major problem is that the timing between landing and decloaking, passing through the gate, and reappearing, and then waiting for the time to pass is NOT currently 30 seconds, it is inconsistant, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, there is no indication whatsoever.This is Just nasty,and this will lead to mass stratios deaths.

Can you please look into this and whether having the cloak delay longer than the 2 session changes is a bad bad bad idea?

If not at least make the timing consistant?

Thanks

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2568 - 2013-11-06 21:55:56 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Personally I would like the extra low and the original high but probably would be asking for too muchBig smile
But I would happily fly either of these.
Much closer to intended thoughts I think.


The ship is 5/5/5 right now, of course. Giving it a 6-slot low rack plus 125 bandwidth would probably result in a net gain in large drone DPS after 3 DDAs, even with the reduced damage bonuses.

The 4-slot high rack irks me a bit, too. Do you know how annoying it is to stop and switch out my cloak for a remote armor/hull rep after every significant fight? Since we're "throwing out a mixed bag" we might as well leave the slot layout alone to prevent weird imbalances and to allow the original high level of available utility.


Makes good sense two turrets balances it out as well.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2569 - 2013-11-06 22:03:25 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
When travelling with the covert ops cloak on sisi, using stratios, travelling has become a nightmare.

There appears to be no bonus to recloak delay, which by default is 30 seconds.This may either be deliberate or overlooked?

On it's own this means having to wait at Gates etc for the time to pass before continuing in the normal manner for a covert ops equipped ship.Although annoying, players can adapt even though it makes travel slow and removes the gain from warp drive mechanics.also due to much faster warp there is no time to warp away and then decloak so you are ready for the next gate.

Aside from this....

The major problem is that the timing between landing and decloaking, passing through the gate, and reappearing, and then waiting for the time to pass is NOT currently 30 seconds, it is inconsistant, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, there is no indication whatsoever.This is Just nasty,and this will lead to mass stratios deaths.

Can you please look into this and whether having the cloak delay longer than the 2 session changes is a bad bad bad idea?

If not at least make the timing consistant?

Thanks


The lack of a sensor recalibration bonus or recloaking delay bonus are deliberate, as those are the benefits of a T2 covert ship.

If you're having trouble with warping cloaked, jumping and then being able to re-cloak on warp-out from the in-gate, hold your gate cloak for 20-30 seconds. It lasts longer than that and significantly longer than the session timer, so there's no worries there. It's generally a good practice in hostile space anyhow.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2570 - 2013-11-06 22:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
When travelling with the covert ops cloak on sisi, using stratios, travelling has become a nightmare.

There appears to be no bonus to recloak delay, which by default is 30 seconds.This may either be deliberate or overlooked?

On it's own this means having to wait at Gates etc for the time to pass before continuing in the normal manner for a covert ops equipped ship.Although annoying, players can adapt even though it makes travel slow and removes the gain from warp drive mechanics.also due to much faster warp there is no time to warp away and then decloak so you are ready for the next gate.

Aside from this....

The major problem is that the timing between landing and decloaking, passing through the gate, and reappearing, and then waiting for the time to pass is NOT currently 30 seconds, it is inconsistant, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, there is no indication whatsoever.This is Just nasty,and this will lead to mass stratios deaths.

Can you please look into this and whether having the cloak delay longer than the 2 session changes is a bad bad bad idea?

If not at least make the timing consistant?

Thanks


The lack of a sensor recalibration bonus or recloaking delay bonus are deliberate, as those are the benefits of a T2 covert ship.

If you're having trouble with warping cloaked, jumping and then being able to re-cloak on warp-out from the in-gate, hold your gate cloak for 20-30 seconds. It lasts longer than that and significantly longer than the session timer, so there's no worries there. It's generally a good practice in hostile space anyhow.

Oh I do understand I am not looking for an instant recloak, and I understand that compromises have to be made, even though it is odd. sensor recalibration I totally get. Covert ops, blocade runners,stealth bombers all get a bonus to recloak time though.30 seconds is a long long time.

The problem currently is you have no idea how long to wait, sometimes leave 30 seconds and fine sometimes wait 35 and cannot cloak.Try it, you'll see what I mean. It's a lottery.

This issue probably never showed up before as covert ops cloak is normally used by the above ships that have the bonus.

It is actually safer to travel with an advanced cloak II and use the MWD trick.

Something is not working as intended if not broken.There will be a lot of needlessly lost ships.
I am leaning to the thought, that CCP Rise May have overlooked this one and the effect on travel with the new warp changes.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2571 - 2013-11-06 22:49:02 UTC
I personally just leave everything as current but move 1 high to a low slot.
It would allow a 4 slot tank and 2 DDAs which should clear most low sec unrated sites and 5/10 complexes. 6/10s are just going to be out of reach in any balanced situation.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2572 - 2013-11-06 22:52:07 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I personally just leave everything as current but move 1 high to a low slot.
It would allow a 4 slot tank and 2 DDAs which should clear most low sec unrated sites and 5/10 complexes. 6/10s are just going to be out of reach in any balanced situation.


They already clear 5/10s as they are. You know people won't fit a 4-slot tank, they'll fit a 3-slot and go for 3 DDAs. Or they'll shield-tank it with 3 DDAs and 3 heatsinks.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2573 - 2013-11-06 22:58:24 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I personally just leave everything as current but move 1 high to a low slot.
It would allow a 4 slot tank and 2 DDAs which should clear most low sec unrated sites and 5/10 complexes. 6/10s are just going to be out of reach in any balanced situation.


They already clear 5/10s as they are. You know people won't fit a 4-slot tank, they'll fit a 3-slot and go for 3 DDAs. Or they'll shield-tank it with 3 DDAs and 3 heatsinks.

If they decide to fit a shield gank fit, they will be denied the covert ops cloak if it only has 4 high slots.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Lelira Cirim
Doomheim
#2574 - 2013-11-07 07:11:48 UTC
Gah... why is nobody fixing the "Cover Ops" typo when they repost and edit the fit... T___T Ugh

Do not actively tank my patience.
Pei Huang
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2575 - 2013-11-07 10:59:28 UTC
really with a mobile base you can deploy just about anywhere with refitting service those two ships are really versatile.

good job ccp!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2576 - 2013-11-07 16:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
ShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

Just a warning to everyone who will fly these ships.
The effect of no bonus to covert ops re cloaking delay is that you CANNOT Jump straight from gate as you do in any of the other covert ops ships such as blockade runners stealth bombers and covert ops ships.

There is a 30 second delay to wait out before re cloaking. and as the deceleration from warp is now so fast and the gate session timer is quite short these days there is a LONG wait at each gate before you can break Gate cloak and re-Cloak/warp.

It Also Makes long distance travel REALLY slow!

If this is as intended and left as it is, and people fly like any other ship with a covert ops cloak, there will be mass deaths of these ships on the first few days, until people learn that there has been an effective nerf to covert ops functionality.

It is NOT the covert ops you are familiar with!

This timer was there before Rubicon but all the above ships are bonused so that the effect is not noticed.

If you are not aware of this YOU WILL DIE.

CCP Rise please comment if this is your plan or the bonus has been overlooked.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rwaat
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2577 - 2013-11-07 17:38:17 UTC
Shouldn't these ships have a new 'Spaceship command' skills?
Seams quite "unfair" (Yeas I know that this is eve, and Everything is unfair) that some people will get an advantage at flying these ships.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2578 - 2013-11-07 17:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP Rise please comment if this is your plan or the bonus has been overlooked.

I don't expect for CCP Rise to actually comment on this matter (I've been surprised before, so who knows) but I might just be willing to bet actual ISK that if he does, he says "the lack of a cloak reactivation bonus is intentional".

If you're just warping gate-to-gate, you can warp off cloaked and then decloak in mid-flight. Usually when you can't see the gatecamp anymore they can't see you either and so it's safe to decloak.

Rwaat wrote:
Shouldn't these ships have a new 'Spaceship command' skills?
Seams quite "unfair" (Yeas I know that this is eve, and Everything is unfair) that some people will get an advantage at flying these ships.

What part of it is unfair? If anyone has an advantage at flying this ship it's because they trained Amarr/Gallente Frigate/Cruiser skills to 5 and you didn't. Just train them to 5 yourself and presto, the advantage is equalized. It's not like the training is that long or the skillbooks that expensive. Anyhow, they're just like every other pirate ship: Two racial ship skills combine to form Voltro- I mean, a set of very useful bonuses on a ship that is generally as close to OP as possible without jumping off the edge into oblivion.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2579 - 2013-11-07 17:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
[quote=epicurus ataraxia]CCP Rise please comment if this is your plan or the bonus has been overlooked.

I don't expect for CCP Rise to actually comment on this matter (I've been surprised before, so who knows) but I might just be willing to bet actual ISK that if he does, he says "the lack of a cloak reactivation bonus is intentional".

If you're just warping gate-to-gate, you can warp off cloaked and then de-cloak in mid-flight. Usually when you can't see the gatecamp anymore they can't see you either and so it's safe to de-cloak.


There's the problem right there.

Due to the warp changes that's no longer possible.

WHATEVER you do there is a wait on the other side of the gate that has to countdown before you can break cloak and warp/re-cloak.

the problem is you have NO idea how long you have without trying (and likely failing)

The only workaround is to wait around 40 seconds to be sure as the session timer while jumping is inconstant as to whether that counts or not.

This ONLY shows up now as the warp changes (deceleration and warp time)have exposed an issue together with the fact that stealth bombers covert ops and blockade runners ALL have a long enough bonus to mask this issue.

You may well be right that the cloak reactivation delay is deliberate, I cannot believe however that they wish to see 80%+ of the new ships die in the first day.

Testing has exposed a MASSIVE unforeseen effect of increasing the wait time coupled with warp changes.

Because this effect is NOT on any other covert ops fitted ship I can test on Sisi, And totally different to covert ops on singularity.

After launch if this is not addressed, then Players will not be aware of the issue, and de-cloak and die at the first hostile location.

This may not or may not be a bug, But it is much much more than just a few seconds wait.

It TOTALLY changes the current expectations as to how the cloak works, and the required method of how to use it while travelling.

I believe that this effect is FAR FAR greater than they expected to see.


If we do not pass on our observations and experiences with testing then There is no point having a test server.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2580 - 2013-11-07 18:01:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
I'll check this right now, but I'm almost completely sure you either didn't actually read what I said or did read but did not understand.

UPDATE: I've just jumped four systems and no problems at all. I left the station, entering warp and then quickly turning the cloak on and then back off again to simulate having left a gate. I used the "Jump" command for each gate instead of simply warping to zero and manual jumping like before. When I arrived in the new system, I was able to click-hold on the gate I wanted, quickly select "Jump" from the radial menu and be moving. The total delay was maybe 3 seconds. Once the command had been sent I hesitated for an instant (to account for server ticks) and activated the cloak. No messages. Once the gate had disappeared from my view I deactivated the cloak.

I repeated this process for all of the jumps in my test, each of which had a roughly 45-AU warp. At every gate, I was able to warp off cloaked without having to wait for the gate cloak to wind down. Warping away from gates in a cloaky Stratios is exactly the same from my experiences as warping away from gates in a Covops on TQ, save for the differences in ship size and thus slowness.

At this point I am, in fact, completely sure you are doing something wrong and need to practice or re-evaluate your technique.

Furthermore:

In highsec you don't even need to cloak; staying alert will be plenty.

In lowsec you can make your actual warp while uncloaked. If you're warping to something other than a stargate or station you can either stay cloaked the whole time or recloak again when you're almost about to land and the grid is almost about to load - you shouldn't be warping to anything at zero in lowsec anyway.

In nullsec you shouldn't be gate-to-gate warping anyway, so it's not a problem.