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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Powers Sa
#2441 - 2013-11-02 20:57:47 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:


Hey guy who doesn't pvp: Don't tell me how to fly a new ship. Next you're going to tell me they are not for combat.



I'm sorry what? Shocked
No, you are right, I have only ever been on the Forums and never logged into the client in seven years..

Powers Sa wrote:

Also if this is a cool exploration ship, what if i want to light a cov cyno and jump my PVE sin around a gatecamp to run plexes/sites?


Blackops is for hotdropping and bridging other boats with them.

My concern is, that both ships will be to weak for combat and no, the answer is not 'bring' more or call Goofswarm.

Did anyone else notice by any chance that every boat in EVE will just suddenly appear near you with Rubicon?

Cloak or no cloak, any boat appears to have a cloak on and surprise you by just showing up out of nowhere.

Here is why you are bad at debates in the particular case: You have tunnel vision for ship usage.
I have a panther I use for actually dropping on things, and I have a sin for bridging or PVE. When on deployment (as I often am), I scan down plexes in hostile sov, and run them on my pve blops. I have to run gatecamps and such with a t3 cruiser or covert cyno ship, and light around the gatecamp to move my blops. Often times I am multiboxing a hunter and fuel truck. The example killmail I linked is an example of someone else using BLOPS for PVE and dying in a fire for being bad at it.

Please exit this conversation if you have tunnel vision and aren't able to think creatively. I have a lot of kills in a blops. I'm currently floating in a 1.6b blops. A large part of eve is thinking outside of the box, and that definitely applies to how you use ships. You seem to be incapable of doing this, so I recommend exiting the discussion or adding something productive.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2442 - 2013-11-02 21:21:09 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:


Hey guy who doesn't pvp: Don't tell me how to fly a new ship. Next you're going to tell me they are not for combat.



I'm sorry what? Shocked
No, you are right, I have only ever been on the Forums and never logged into the client in seven years..

Powers Sa wrote:

Also if this is a cool exploration ship, what if i want to light a cov cyno and jump my PVE sin around a gatecamp to run plexes/sites?


Blackops is for hotdropping and bridging other boats with them.

My concern is, that both ships will be to weak for combat and no, the answer is not 'bring' more or call Goofswarm.

On another note,
did you try that boat out in a level 4 (four) mission in empire space?

I give you a hint, that boat will not survive or complete any of them.


Did anyone else notice by any chance that every boat in EVE will just suddenly appear near you with Rubicon?

Cloak or no cloak, any boat appears to have a cloak on and surprise you by just showing up out of nowhere.


Level 4?

What the **** does that have to do with anything? O.o

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2443 - 2013-11-02 21:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
Powers Sa wrote:

Here is why you are bad at debates in the particular case: You have tunnel vision for ship usage.
I have a panther I use for actually dropping on things, and I have a sin for bridging or PVE. When on deployment (as I often am), I scan down plexes in hostile sov, and run them on my pve blops. I have to run gatecamps and such with a t3 cruiser or covert cyno ship, and light around the gatecamp to move my blops. Often times I am multiboxing a hunter and fuel truck. The example killmail I linked is an example of someone else using BLOPS for PVE and dying in a fire for being bad at it.

Please exit this conversation if you have tunnel vision and aren't able to think creatively. I have a lot of kills in a blops. I'm currently floating in a 1.6b blops. A large part of eve is thinking outside of the box, and that definitely applies to how you use ships. You seem to be incapable of doing this, so I recommend exiting the discussion or adding something productive.


I am not talking about your Blackops operations, I am talking about the Stratios.

The opening statement still is, that this boat is a pirate faction exploration boat which is capable of running DED 6/10 sites on her own.

She can't.

There is on the other hand a specialized covert ops boat (pun..) that can light your covert beacon in space and scan down things. Then you can jump in your ships and do what you like to do.

Except the ones who won't like what you are doing, nobody will stop you.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2444 - 2013-11-02 22:30:42 UTC
Ok tested two Stratios fits.

First fight Gila vs Stratios, Stratios won.

High -
4x Ion Blasters II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium -
Medium Capacitor Booster II - 3x 800 Navy Capacitor Boost
Low Capacitor Booster II - 1x 400 Navy Capacitor Boost
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Low -
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer
Medium Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Rigs -
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

652 DPS
661.3 armor rep every 7.7s
Resist 75%, 67%, 67%, 67%


Second fight Cynbal vs Stratios, Stratio won.

High -
4x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium -
Medium Capacitor Booster II - 3x 800 Navy Capacitor Boost
Low Capacitor Booster II - 1x 400 Navy Capacitor Boost
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Low -
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer
Medium Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Rigs -
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

582.9 DPS
661.3 armor rep every 7.7s
Resist 75%, 67%, 67%, 67%


The Stratio won both fights.The big thing was the cloak, being able to sneak up on your target first helped a lot. Also ECM drones help anytime I had issues with neuts/noses, or taking too much DPS. But really you have to use your combat drones to be able to do enough damage. And without any prop mods the Stratio still went over 1,600m/s, so it's pretty fast for an armor boat.. So against faction cruisers the Stratio isn't too bad, you probably won't win every fight, but you can win some. And against T1 cruisers you will win pretty much any fight, same against destroyers and frigates as long as you have scout drones. Now against T2 cruises, I'm not sure how the Stratio will do, I'll check tomorrow, but I'm guessing the Stratio against HACs and BCs it won't do too well. Big thing is use your cloak to stock and get in the range you need to use your scram, disruptor, and web. That's its biggest advantage.
Powers Sa
#2445 - 2013-11-02 22:43:20 UTC
Here is my comedy no-cloak Astero fit, on tranq i would have a centii c-type small armor repairer instead of the t2"
Quote:

[Astero, DUAL REP LOL]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Small Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200

Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5


Does it look bad? yes. Does it kill dramiels? Sometimes.

Based on my pro as F dual rep enyo:
Quote:

[Enyo, DUAL REP ACR]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Coreli A-Type 1MN Afterburner

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hornet EC-300 x1


I'll get some practical fits posted later.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2446 - 2013-11-02 23:23:46 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The Stratio won both fights.The big thing was the cloak, being able to sneak up on your target first helped a lot. Also ECM drones help anytime I had issues with neuts/noses, or taking too much DPS. But really you have to use your combat drones to be able to do enough damage. And without any prop mods the Stratio still went over 1,600m/s, so it's pretty fast for an armor boat.. So against faction cruisers the Stratio isn't too bad, you probably won't win every fight, but you can win some. And against T1 cruisers you will win pretty much any fight, same against destroyers and frigates as long as you have scout drones. Now against T2 cruises, I'm not sure how the Stratio will do, I'll check tomorrow, but I'm guessing the Stratio against HACs and BCs it won't do too well. Big thing is use your cloak to stock and get in the range you need to use your scram, disruptor, and web. That's its biggest advantage.


...why are you fitting two injectors? You don't need two injectors to run MWD + two reps + guns, even with lasers. Also neither of those fits have a web.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2447 - 2013-11-03 00:30:17 UTC
Web isn't needed, not with good drone and gunnery skills, but you could take the small off and add a web. I like two injectors in case of neuters, and as it worked against a Gila, and Cynabal it seems to have been a pretty effective first setup. Also the AAR does take some cap to use, so to use both armor repairer (If things get REALLY bad) you need both injectors. But really you could just put the med on and use a web, but again if you sneak up on your target and scram them, then their MWD is useless. But everyone will fit differently. The Stratio is a cap hungry boat, so I rather be safe than sorry.

Big thing I am testing is if the SOE ships will be good in pvp, and so fair they seem as they will, against the right targets and if you use them right. A gang of Astero, Stratio, SBs, and other covert op ships would be pretty scarey now. You just uncloak the SOE ships first to grab the targets and then uncloak the EWAR ships and SB for DPS, these fleets could be pretty mean. The SOE ships sadly I think will be a fav of pirates, which goes completely against the SOE, but oh well haha. Just pick your targets wisely and you should be fine.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2448 - 2013-11-03 00:42:14 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Web isn't needed, not with good drone and gunnery skills, but you could take the small off and add a web. I like two injectors in case of neuters, and as it worked against a Gila, and Cynabal it seems to have been a pretty effective first setup. Also the AAR does take some cap to use, so to use both armor repairer (If things get REALLY bad) you need both injectors. But really you could just put the med on and use a web, but again if you sneak up on your target and scram them, then their MWD is useless. But everyone will fit differently. The Stratio is a cap hungry boat, so I rather be safe than sorry.

Big thing I am testing is if the SOE ships will be good in pvp, and so fair they seem as they will, against the right targets and if you use them right. A gang of Astero, Stratio, SBs, and other covert op ships would be pretty scarey now. You just uncloak the SOE ships first to grab the targets and then uncloak the EWAR ships and SB for DPS, these fleets could be pretty mean. The SOE ships sadly I think will be a fav of pirates, which goes completely against the SOE, but oh well haha. Just pick your targets wisely and you should be fine.


You are incredibly wrong

But alright.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Powers Sa
#2449 - 2013-11-03 01:07:33 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


You are incredibly wrong

But alright.

I feel like we're the only ones who know what the hell is going on here.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2450 - 2013-11-03 01:45:50 UTC
Odd how I am wrong but I have tested it, and it works against ships I thought would beat it pretty easy. A web is nice but not needed, not against other cruisers, against frigates it would probably help out, but a scram works great. But I'll also test it more later today and add info on it all. But like I said you can trade the small injector for a webber.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2451 - 2013-11-03 02:27:25 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


You are incredibly wrong

But alright.

I feel like we're the only ones who know what the hell is going on here.


What?

I just come on here and tell people they are wrong and spread the word about how much i hate everything


You really shouldn't be giving me positive reinforcement to continue being a bitter ****!

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2452 - 2013-11-03 02:31:25 UTC
Why not, it's fun and I like helping others be bitter.
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2453 - 2013-11-03 12:30:35 UTC
Very happy with the virus strength change, however...

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
May be a stupid question but as these ships a supposed to be exploration specialists, why is the calibration so low as to preclude the fitting of more than 1 scanning rig.
50 extra calibration is not going to help those wishing to fit them for pvp but will certainly open a lot of options for anyone wanting to use them for data and relic sites. +10 to Analyzers is far from OP for role (even with all 5's failure rate is pretty high) and with T1 bonus to probes, it leaves the ships in a place where they are not best choice.

Taking ship cost into consideration, at 30k LP +15mil isk for the frigate BPC that makes them around 1.5 times more expensive than T2 with nothing role wise to warrant the additional cost. The cruiser at 150k LP + 30mil isk BPC cost, makes it a costly investment, more so when you add T2 rigs to give it a better chance of survival.


Pirate ships have 350 calibration.
I realise that, was just curious as to why a line of ships designed for a specific role would be left unable to use the rigs relating to that role. Bonuses can be adjusted to suit a given role, why not in this case a calibration reduction for scanning and analyzer rigs. The ships bonuses to scanning and analyzers are nothing to write home about. Give them a bonus that holds some appeal towards the role they were designed for and help justify the added cost of a pirate ship.


Oh dear.

CCP Rise wrote:
I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.

I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength.


In this state the covert ops ship is still better at hacking, which is not good. :(
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2454 - 2013-11-03 13:44:01 UTC
When those ships are intended to take the leading role in exploration and hacking, what i am assuming after the statement that covert ops have a different role, then i really think there should be a change either in calibration that those ships have, or in the calibration need, the tech 1 virust strength rigs need.

Currently it is not possible to fit 2 medium tech 1 virus strength rigs into the stratios, as they need 200 calibration each, while the ship has 350 calibration available. With covert ops like the helios, it is possible to fit two tech 1 rigs for virus strength.

So if those SOE ships are ment to be "the explorers", then i feel like they should be able to fit two tech 1 virus strength rigs as well, one for hacking, one for analyzing.

Maybe it is time to revisit the tech 1 medium virus strength rigs, and reduce their needed calibration to 150 instead of 200. As i am guessing that the stratios has 350calibration for balance reasons.


Did not get around yet to test the frigate version, if that one is able to fit two tech 1 virus strength rigs or not.
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#2455 - 2013-11-03 15:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
Found a bug in the SOE Ships.

Neither of them can use the 'smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II storyline cloak.

Seems like it must be a mistake that they can't fit the storyline one, considering they can fit the normal version.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2456 - 2013-11-03 15:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
All pirate ships have 350 calibration, regardless of hull size or type. Rig size does not change the calibration required. When you know the results for one ship you know the results for the other. I would say, however, that it's not in dire need of fixing. 110 coherency unrigged vs 120 coherency w/ a T1 rig isn't even a worthwhile difference, is it? T2 rigs provide a useful bonus but their calibration is so high that I wonder if anyone uses them.

With the Stratios, you're getting worthwhile combat ability and best-in-class hacking ability all in one ship that can be fitted to competently handle both duties at once, plus a covert cloak - all without any sort of specialized training for the hull. Before anyone says it cross-training Amarr/Gallente Cruiser/Frigate does not count as "specialized training".

With the Astero, it handles all-in-one duty even better than the Stratios for sites within its realistic capability - that is, analysis sites and DED 3/10s (or comparable unrated) or below.

The virus strength on both ships has been doubled after quite a lot of debate, arguing and outright flamethrowing but people now want even more. Work with the rigs you can fit, not the rigs you can't. Pirate ships have 350 calibration for balance reasons and the hacking rigs require 200 for balance reasons as well.

Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
Found a bug in the SOE frigate.

It can't use the 'smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II storyline cloak.

Seems like it must be a mistake that it can't fit that, considering it can fit the normal version.


I noticed that too and filed a bug report. If you haven't done the same then it might be worthwhile. Put it under "Gameplay".
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2457 - 2013-11-03 16:08:44 UTC
Stratios -

High -
4x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium -
Medium Capacitor Booster II - 3x 800 Navy Capacitor Boost
Small Capacitor Booster II - 1x 400 Navy Capacitor Boost
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Low -
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer
Medium Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Rigs -
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

582.9 DPS
661.3 armor rep every 7.7s
Resist 75%, 67%, 67%, 67%

Beat: Gila, Cynabal, Vagabond
Loss: Vagabond, Hurricane

I'll keep both cap boosters, when I switched one out for a web is when I lost to the Vaga.

Astero -

High -
200mm Autcannon II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium -
Small Capacitor Booster II - 1x 400 Navy Capacitor Boost
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Microwarpdrive I

Low -
Small Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Rigs -
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Nanobot Accelerator I

173.6 DPS
165.6 Armor rep every 3.8s
Resist 66%, 56%, 56%, 58%

Beat: Jag, SB, Thrasher, Dramiel
Tie: Hawk
Loss: none

Pretty good frigate, should do well against most faction frigates, T1 destroyers, and some T2 frigates.
Sekeris
Order of Celestial Knights
#2458 - 2013-11-03 20:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sekeris
I like the frig, but would like to join in on the following points previously mentioned;

Wish it had room to fit a combat probe launcher
A larger scan bonus would be most welcome (50% would be epic)
The calibration costs on the virus and scanning rigs makes it impossible to fit the combination i would like.

Also looked at the cruiser for a bit, but drones dont work as well as they used too, and i am not sure i will use it much. Still, the above points (with exception of the combat probe launcher) count against that ship also.

Not too worried about the DPS and PVP aspects of both ships, as i will be mostly looking at using them for scanning and cracking cans, so i will leave that for the theory crafters, allthough it seems wierd that it will not fit a cov ops cyno with the recent 'rule' cov ops cloak = cov cyno also.

Edit: Acutally, the cuiser also does not have enough CPU to have a useful fit with the combat probe launcher... not enough CPU
Edit2: While on the topic of wish lists, id like a shorter re-cloak time on the frigate too please Big smile
Selnix
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#2459 - 2013-11-03 21:27:05 UTC
The calibration costs of both T1 and T2 scanning rigs needs to be revisited. As things currently stand the best the Aestro can hope for is to be a pale imitation of a covert ops frigate when it comes to actually exploring or hacking with the fringe exception of possibly being able to run a 3/10 plex if the drones don't get wiped out by the npcs.

As the Aestro pilot will have to choose one of three important rigs should they actually wish to use the ship for exploration efficiently, they will be on par with a covops in either probing, relic hacking or data hacking whilst being sub-par to the less expensive ship in both of the other two tasks.

What balance-wise dictates that scanning rigs be so much more calibration-intensive than tanking rigs? It seems quite odd that you can slap on a full set of T2 trimarks should you so desire while not being able to fit even two T1 hacking rigs.
Sir Spottington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2460 - 2013-11-03 22:44:26 UTC
been playing with a dual armor rep fit on sisi

its good fun, my only complaint is i wish i could drop the guns and just have it as a dedicated drone boat with the 5th drone back. A preference more than a criticism really.