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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon] Electronic Attack Ships

First post
Author
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2013-10-02 15:37:15 UTC
More overpowered kiting ships.

As if FW pvp wasn't terrible enough already.
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#22 - 2013-10-02 15:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
When you get past the giddiness of the range increase (which is appreciated) several things still jump out:

Kitsune still has two bonuses dedicated to cap use. And I was greatly amused that it's sig radius was lessened JUST enough to be under a Thrasher's 56m sig radius. Roll

Keres also still has two bonuses dedicated to cap use. Yaaaawn.

The Hyena still has that 3% sig radius reduction bonus. Why??? I remember when interceptors used to have a 5% sig radius reduction bonus before the great nano nerf of 2009. It was changed to the current MWD sig penalty reduction bonus because testing on SISSI showed the sig reduction bonus wholly inadequate. Only the Hyena still has to suffer with this throwback and I'm perplexed as to why.

The Hyena will have to operate in the 20km - 30km range ala overheated point. Many normal frigates in this range will get shredded by medium weaponry. They Hyena does not get TD or SD as the sentinel and keres do. I really think you should consider giving the damn thing the Talwar/Interceptor MWD penalty reduction bonus. With only four mids you really can't shield tank the Hyena without cutting into it's ewar. It's slower then interceptors already before you consider armor tanking the thing. That should be enough of a difference between Minmatar interceptors and the Hyena.

I'd really like to see it possible to use the Hyena without mandatory links to keep it alive.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2013-10-02 15:49:45 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I remember when interceptors used to have a 5% sig radius reduction bonus before the great nano nerf of 2009



I remember that. My zealot could hit orbiting crows, no tracking mods or anything.

So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-10-02 15:50:52 UTC
base sig bonus is better than MWD one. Because allows me to use AB that with a long range web is VEEERY good.

Hyena is great now.


Keres and kitsune have cap bonuses because their ewar uses alot of cap and their ewar is FAR more pwoerful because they can cancel ANY ship type, contrary to neuts that do not harm minmatar much and to webs that are almos tirrelevant for caldari.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#25 - 2013-10-02 15:52:31 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Let me get this straight. The Sentinel gets 4 drones and 2 guns and the Keres gets 1 drone and 2 guns. You made a mistake on one of these ships. How about 5 drones on the Keres?


How about no ? For your info ... Sentinel got 0 guns in fact ... show me single person that will put gun on sentinel. It's only weapons are drones.


And if drones are the main weapon system, then the Sentinel needs a slot removed like the other drone boats.


No its only when you get drone bonus (tristan tracking/hp , vexor damage/hp).

And hell no again. I'm happy for once one balance pass is not straightforward gallente win. Thanks CCP.


So as long as Amarr is being balanced we shouldn't balance anything else? Sounds like a solid balance pass to me. Ship it.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
#26 - 2013-10-02 15:54:02 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Destoya wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:


That looks like 2 guns to me. For solo, two guns and a neut would work pretty well. Hell a swarm of them in this configuration would be deadly.


Dunking any hardeners (including DCU), reppers, EW modules, and propulsion modules is a much much stronger tactic than going in and doing an extra 20 DPS from your unbonused autocannons. Stay at 20km now that you have the neut range to do that as there is absolutely no chance the guy can chase you down and kill you


So the guns are irrelevant on the Sentinel. They would be on the Keres as well then as there is no damage bonus. Why doesn't it get more than one drone?

I heard its been done specifically to bother you personally, but who knows.


Well it is Rise doing the balance pass. He is probably getting back at me for trolling him ;-)
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#27 - 2013-10-02 16:02:19 UTC
The range on that Kitsune is scary too. 117 km optimal range on jammers (?) Wow. Shocked
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#28 - 2013-10-02 16:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
sentinel (solo) pilot here. Increased lockrange is AWESOME and always was my main complain about the ship.

More hp/speed/cap recharge is all nice to have - i don't say no but it isn't gamechaning. Thanks for all of those tweaks!



The neut range however throws it totally out of balance. A year ago sentinel was a ship which required some piloting skill so you can fly it. One mistake and you where dead. (very similar to a slicer in this regard.. just less agile and slower). But now since you can fitt AARs on it you can just get out of scram range again and again. Piloting mistakes don't matter much anymore, its a very forgivable and safe ship. Every local tank buff helped the sentinel, since it buffed the sentinel without buffing the opponent (... neuts). Drone boats or even condors or dragoons where a huge problem for a sentinel pilot a year ago.. but they are no longer a big issue. There are only very few ships left i really don't want to engage when i undock in a sentinel. (talwar, hawk, just to mention some)

This being said, the sentinel already is a very good ship even without the buff. Please don't give it neut range it just makes it ridiculous overpowered in my opinion. If you still like to buff it give it bandwidth for another drone or something like that.

- - -
HOWEVER if you compare it to broken mechanics like ECM you could still say its a necessary buff. If a griffin can silent your ship from 70k away why shouldn't you be able to neut at least half the range? But i always saw ECM as broken mechanic and therefore never hoped that other ewar would be adjusted to be in line with it. I rather hoped that ECM would be modified to be pilot skill based instead of chance based and therefore brought in line with the other systems.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#29 - 2013-10-02 16:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
TrouserDeagle wrote:


So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.


This
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-10-02 16:12:01 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.


This



Durign years we asked for better support for solo or pairs PVP and now you complain that we get it?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-10-02 16:13:18 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I remember when interceptors used to have a 5% sig radius reduction bonus before the great nano nerf of 2009



I remember that. My zealot could hit orbiting crows, no tracking mods or anything.

So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.



Taht because due to the stupid speeds of 12 km/s these crows were orbiting at 50 km!!! Otherwise I call BS because nubmers show this to be impossible.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2013-10-02 16:13:56 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


So yeah, these are good for griefing solo pvpers while abusing skirmish links, but terrible for actual gang ewar.


This



Durign years we asked for better support for solo or pairs PVP and now you complain that we get it?


Being broken as **** is okay if it's in the name of solo/small gang?
Goldensaver
Something Went Wrong
#33 - 2013-10-02 16:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Welp. ******* sweet. Holy ****.

Dat Sentinel is going to be just stupid, neuting out to ridiculous ranges for frig kiting.

The Keres is going to be positively stupid as a pseudo interceptor. Except it won't have to move to point anything. 30km scrams. Wow. On a frigate.

And the Hyena. Those webs. Perfect kiting ship. I might have to fly those as combat ships if I can get something together.

Really the only underwhelming ship is the Kitsune. I'll just bring Griffins for a cheaper price and get good enough jams. But it is pretty good for the long range jamming stuff.


Still... ******* SWEET!

Edit: Derped the Keres. Only 18km scrams, 48km points without heat, links or bling.
Edenmain
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#34 - 2013-10-02 16:25:16 UTC


How about a rethink on 2 ships which never get any love......

Succabus and Phantasm
Aliventi
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#35 - 2013-10-02 16:25:59 UTC
These will be the changes that make the most difference in the AT meta.
Edenmain
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#36 - 2013-10-02 16:27:03 UTC
Also give EW frigs the interdiction nullifier that interceptors get.
Edenmain
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#37 - 2013-10-02 16:29:30 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
These will be the changes that make the most difference in the AT meta.


how about a 10 second delay per security system?

full local in all 0.5 and above

0.4 - 10 seconds
0.3 - 20 seconds
0.2 - 30 seconds
0.1 - 40 seconds
0.0 - 1 minute?
Naomi Anthar
#38 - 2013-10-02 16:30:44 UTC
[quote=Marcel
So as long as Amarr is being balanced we shouldn't balance anything else? Sounds like a solid balance pass to me. Ship it.[/quote]

Yes if that means that once Gallente ship does not end up stupidly overpowered compared to others. Then yeah even if its not fair , we need it. For justice. And its not like keres is useless now or new keres won't be super strong after changes.

It will just not be Winlente Online this time, u mad ?

Yeah i know what you and other gallente folks expected, 5 drones 75 band drone bay, drone damage bonus and hp. And many others fancy undeserved and vastly overpowered reserved for gallente broken things. But yeah , deal with it.
Bagehi
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2013-10-02 16:31:47 UTC
Keres is going to be scary.
Naomi Anthar
#40 - 2013-10-02 16:32:55 UTC
Edenmain wrote:


How about a rethink on 2 ships which never get any love......

Succabus and Phantasm


Be patient - they will get it. Ytterbium mentioned it few months ago in some thread. But yeah i would love to see it as soon as possible too ;).

And lets hope those buffs will be HUGE. As those ships are not bad, they are terrible now.