Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Reasons recons aren't as OP or popular as the suggested EAFs:

1) price
2) SP
3) mobility
4) sig
5) all of the above in relation to tank, or rather the lack of it

EAFs are just better in all these aspects except the last one, but their mobility combined with the long range EWAR negates the need for any sort of tank, and on top of that they have frigate scan res.

They are primaried because they are less resilient than logistic ships, but exactly like logi they are forces multipliers, hence valuable targets.

Also, it's rather pointless to primary a ship when the ennemy have dozens of them whereas EWAR ships are most of the time in very limited numbers ; in fact, they are most of the time the most limited number of ship in a fleet.

And in fact, the "single uncontrolled recon" never kills gangs by itself, he only allows his buddies to do so.

Maybe you would prefer a game were ships can't help eachother without killing the ennemy faster ? I guess this is a secret dream for a lot of solo-pvper considering how EWAR will ruin their day.

Recons are force multipliers.. You can't expect them to be used in the same quantity as DPS

Don't quote meaningless metrics


Also you are still ignoring the fact that recon metrics will be ****** over by the fact that t3's do the same thing as recons.




Just.. In general.. Metrics are not good for anything but slight reference.

What is signature and tracking? You can get a hyena to the point that a tracking bonused frigate with a web still has trouble hitting it. And that hyena can have an MSE and a masb.

Good argument for nerfing links Moar. Keeping EAS gimped? Not so much.

How about expirience and knowledge? (He has those)

If you look at metrics you can draw the conclusion that the increased import of iron roofs to iceland in the second world war caused an increase in out of marriage pregnancy.

but if you know stuff its far more likely that it was the presence of US soldiers here that caused it.


Metrics alone are not very useful. Stop being bad.

Noo please don't do this. If I remember correct, it was you or Fozzie stating Amarr and Minmatar ewar ships are in a hybrid role in terms or ewar and combat. I really like this design. It makes them much more viable for soloing compared to the more role focused Caldari and Gallente ewar ships.

I think that the word you are looking for is 'penalty'.

I'll preface my comments that I fly a Maulus a lot. I flew it a lot before the tech I frig rebalance as well. I love ewar. Well, except for ecm, which leaves a target no options. People can overcome my Maulus. For instance one of the things they can do is shoot fof missiles. Unfortunately a turret ship is ****** against ecm, damps, and TDs. If missile boats could be rendered useless by ecm and damps we'd have the ecm and maybe the damp mechanics changed, but that is another gripe.

Basically all you need to do with these ships is make them slightly better ew frigates, and not mini recons. They don't need much else than the tech II resists, a very little more hp, a slight bit less mobility in exchange for some added bonuses. Why do you change the griffin/kitsune frigate ecm strength bonus from 15 to 20???? On these ships just leave the tech I frig bonuses the same for each. Then add one (or maybe two weak) more bonus. That is all these ships need.

Kitsune - tech I griffin bonuses, then a 15% optimal (not 25% ffs) and the 5% cap bonuses. The ship is an improved griffin. Some slightly better range, better resists, better cap, an extra high slot (delete the drone on this and the griffin, one drone is not worth bothering with). So it is basically a very slightly more tanky better ranged (but not ridiculously) ew frig.

Sentinel - tech I crucifier bonuses. then add +50% range on neuts, and a 5% cap bonus. The ship is an improved Crucifier. The neuts and drones can be used defensively. The small (non strength bonused) neuts and dronage won't overpower larger turret ships and won't make this a solo beast. It will still be fearsome for other frigs, especially when you introduce missile TDs. Mids could be one prop mod, one tackle mod, missile TD, turret TD (or 2 TDs of the same type).

Keres - tech I bonuses of the Maulus. then add maybe 15% warp disruptor range (or 5 or 10% damp effectiveness percentage), 5% reduction in disruptor cap use (or if went with damp effectiveness bonus then add some bonus to drone hp or gun tracking). Either it will have a recon-ish tackle range and cap bonus, although toned down from your proposal, or it will have some added damp effectiveness and a weapon bonus that is a defensive not an offensive one. In either case, if you are going to give the sentinel the same dronage of it's tech I counterpart you should give this ship it's same dronage. If the tackle range bonus options make you worry about the dronage (although why the debilitating ewar on the Sentinel with it's full dronage doesn't I don't know) then trim it to 15/30. ONE LIGHT DRONE IS A JOKE AND IS NOT WORTH THE FINGER MOTION EFFORT TO ACTIVATE ON THIS SHIP. My preference would be the 5-10% damp effectiveness and 10% drone hp as EAF bonuses. Again it makes it a fearsome ship to other frigs but not a solo threat to larger ships.

Hyena - This ship deserves it's 5th mid back and take away the extra low. Make it like the Kitsune, 3h, 5m, 2l. Keep the tech I Vigil bonuses. Make the web bonus 40% (not 50% range) and maybe a 5% cap bonus instead of the 3% sig? Anyway 4 mids on a ship where it is bonused for 2 midslot modules is stupid. So the 5th mid helps it remain viable.

edit - and of these ships the Sentinel still looks the best so if you are going to take a drones away take one from it.

We missed you.