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[Rubicon] New certifcates review

First post
Author
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#261 - 2013-11-24 00:04:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
CCP Ytterbium, I have a question.

Why exactly does the Tengu have "Scout Drones" in its Lv5 Mastery list?

Is this some foreshadowing of planned changes coming in the T3 rebalance?

Because it can field 5 light drones if you set it up for it.


New question! How did I never ever notice that?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#262 - 2013-11-24 01:09:46 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
CCP Ytterbium, I have a question.

Why exactly does the Tengu have "Scout Drones" in its Lv5 Mastery list?

Is this some foreshadowing of planned changes coming in the T3 rebalance?

Because it can field 5 light drones if you set it up for it.


New question! How did I never ever notice that?

Because no-one ever uses that subsystem. Blink
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#263 - 2013-11-24 16:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifth Blade
Kronos mastery rank IV:
Requires Advanced Target Management IV, Sensor Compensation IV, decent drone skills (IV or V), Armor compensations to IV etc but doesn't require gun spec above I. Large Blaster / Railgun Spec IV would have a much larger effect than most of the aforementioned requirements in practice. The current state also leaves a huge gap between Mastery rank IV and V.

Might i suggest that you require:
Gun spec I at mastery rank III,
Gun spec IV at mastery rank IV
Gun spec V at mastery rank V

This provides less of a huge gap between ranks IV and V and also serves as a better guide for newer pilots. (If you are flying a marauder, a ship with a large SP requirement, you should not be "mostly proficient" at rank III mastery without t2 guns)

Edit:

To be clear, I just don't think mastery rank IV is a good place for "barely able to use main weapon system" of such a difficult to fly ship. This would apply even more to the Paladin, which relies on T2 ammo.

The drone spec could probably be split between ranks III / IV / V too.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#264 - 2013-11-24 19:18:43 UTC
i think you need to take a better in depth look at each ship i.e. cynabal has an artillery spec lv1 on mastery lv4 no-one puts arties on a cynabal .. now maybe on mastery lv5 it makes more sense as it is possible to put arties on it if you really wanted too..

also please look at target management lv5 on most ships you can't even use that skill to add more lockable targets as each ship/class has a limit on how many you can lock so even lv4 might not be needed on frigs

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#265 - 2013-11-24 19:27:02 UTC
also armor reinforcement at lv5 mastery on shield ships is odd... yes more EHP as a result but its a shield ship armour and structure HP isn't very important.... also why is hull HP skill in a armour reinforcement cert it makes no sense ... surely a separate hull cert would make more sense for ships that need it at whatever level to use the hull upgrade mods.. or whatever

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#266 - 2013-11-25 22:12:01 UTC
why does the daredevil need shield reinforcement lv5 for mastery lv5?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#267 - 2013-11-26 08:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
I understand the need to simplify the old system, though if these mastery levels need to be a guide to new players I think there needs to be made a distinqtion between core certiicates and support certificates.


I use a SNI for Missioning.

I noticed yesterday I fly it currently at mastery lvl 1, considering i do 1000+ DPS with enough EHP to solo me though every mission with 2 fingers up my nose while talking to the mrs. I considered that rather strange.

with a quick look at the certiicates needed, I found out that although I have Core ship, core shield, Core fitting at 5 and large missiles at 4 I'm still at 1 because I lack a level of electronic drone interfacing.

Although I see the benefits of training the skill and my ego won't be hurt by flying the ship at mastery 1.


Isn't it a bit missleading to newer players, just because electronic drone interacing will do less for your SNI than Cruise missile specialisation for instance.

Ít's a minor critism, because I like most what you guys did with the certificates aside that I'll miss claiming them :)
Luscius Uta
#268 - 2013-11-26 10:02:16 UTC
Why is the related Freighter skill not included in certificates for Freighters? That leaves a possibility to have lvl 5 mastery for a ship you can't even fly!

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#269 - 2013-11-27 11:12:31 UTC
I don't have mastery in ships I have perfect skills for and have hundreds of kills in because I can't use probes.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#270 - 2013-11-27 15:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
also on the mining ships they should have a bigger dronebay so you can have 2 sets light of drones / 50/75 for macinaws/T2 versions
1 for mining drones
1 for combat drones

then indy drones as the main cert instead of scout drones as its not a combat ship but an indy one

also make mining drones more useful and especially medium mining drones are way too expensive ....
maybe add mining drone bonuses to the ships aswell

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#271 - 2013-11-28 15:54:24 UTC
Why is anchoring over 3 required for the production>manufacturing cert line?

Also can we get a timer for each level?
It would be nice to know how long it takes for each level.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#272 - 2013-11-29 19:42:19 UTC
I find a lot of the new cert requirements rather odd. Like some of the above posters I have low level certs in ships I have perfect skills with due to missing one odd skill or another. I have to ask what use armor layering is in ships that have passive resistance bonuses, for example.
Xenial Jesse Taalo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2013-11-30 03:17:32 UTC
Sorry CCP but it's a bad skills guide when it is deliberately unfocused for every ship.

No-one wants to excel at "jack of all trades" when they play, and there is no question that if a new player followed this guide, that player's skill process would be significantly damaged.
Radgette
EVE Irn Bru Distribution
#274 - 2013-12-01 16:54:04 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Why is the related Freighter skill not included in certificates for Freighters? That leaves a possibility to have lvl 5 mastery for a ship you can't even fly!


this is the same for loads of ships.

FE you can have mastery lvl5 in interceptors with Interceptor skill at 1 which is totally daft
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#275 - 2013-12-02 09:16:08 UTC
so besides the phantasm which still hasn't been given scout drones in its mastery certs the ashimmu is also missing scout drones. and so is the dramiel and the maller and the sentinel and the tormentor/magnate/ T1 exploration frigs/cerberus/osprey navy issue/moa unless you're ignoring 10-20 mb range of drones on ships

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#276 - 2013-12-02 18:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
As an Amarr miner I now have to train the Electronic Warfare Skill to Level 4 and Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing to L3 to have a Level 2 Mastery of a retriever despite the fact that no one ever uses ewar drones on a retriever on account of the fact that is a stupid thing to do when a gank is in progress...


Edit the L4 mastery is even weirder apparently I need Navigation 5, Afterburner 4, Acceleration control 4, Evasive manoeuvring 4, wtf? Is a Retty a new class of interceptor, is this in the patch notes. I thought barges handled like barges, being slow, cumbersome. so much so that all you can do is point them at your safe spot and hope to warp out in time if some reds/gankers show up.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Silvion
Federation
#277 - 2013-12-02 19:19:55 UTC
I happened to notice that there is an Advanced Target Management mastery requirement for the Golem that is beyond the capabilities of the ship to target (Mastery levels IV and V) If the ship is unable to target 11 different things, why is it required for the mastery?
Silvion
Federation
#278 - 2013-12-02 19:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Silvion
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
As an Amarr miner I now have to train the Electronic Warfare Skill to Level 4 and Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing to L3 to have a Level 2 Mastery of a retriever despite the fact that no one ever uses ewar drones on a retriever on account of the fact that is a stupid thing to do when a gank is in progress...


Edit the L4 mastery is even weirder apparently I need Navigation 5, Afterburner 4, Acceleration control 4, Evasive manoeuvring 4, wtf? Is a Retty a new class of interceptor, is this in the patch notes. I thought barges handled like barges, being slow, cumbersome. so much so that all you can do is point them at your safe spot and hope to warp out in time if some reds/gankers show up.


Little Dragon Khamez, Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing gives a 3000 meter bonus per level to drone control range. That's why it's included. Navigation skills are part of the Core, and mastery is aimed at getting you to the ships maximum potential. That includes a lot of things that aren't per se mining related (Shields, Armor, Navigation, Cap, etc) but ARE useful across a wide variety of ships, including mining barges and exhumers.

Bear in mind that mastery isn't a "have to have," it's a recommendation.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#279 - 2013-12-02 21:40:00 UTC
Silvion wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
As an Amarr miner I now have to train the Electronic Warfare Skill to Level 4 and Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing to L3 to have a Level 2 Mastery of a retriever despite the fact that no one ever uses ewar drones on a retriever on account of the fact that is a stupid thing to do when a gank is in progress...


Edit the L4 mastery is even weirder apparently I need Navigation 5, Afterburner 4, Acceleration control 4, Evasive manoeuvring 4, wtf? Is a Retty a new class of interceptor, is this in the patch notes. I thought barges handled like barges, being slow, cumbersome. so much so that all you can do is point them at your safe spot and hope to warp out in time if some reds/gankers show up.


Little Dragon Khamez, Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing gives a 3000 meter bonus per level to drone control range. That's why it's included. Navigation skills are part of the Core, and mastery is aimed at getting you to the ships maximum potential. That includes a lot of things that aren't per se mining related (Shields, Armor, Navigation, Cap, etc) but ARE useful across a wide variety of ships, including mining barges and exhumers.

Bear in mind that mastery isn't a "have to have," it's a recommendation.


That's understood and worthwhile for a ship that can move, but it's a bit like recommending knuckledusters to a meek and mild ministers wife, if she ever needs them it's unlikely they'll do anything useful for her.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#280 - 2013-12-02 22:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP really should consider splitting the electronic warfare drone interfacing skill into 2

- electronic warfare drones - skill requirement for e-war drones only .. perhaps 5% bonus to e-war strength of drones
- drone control interfacing - adds 3km to drone control range per level

and perhaps add another drone skill

- advanced drone control interfacing - adds a further 5km to drone control range per level

this would help massively with sentry drones on ships without having too use multiple drone augment mods in the highs.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using