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Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

First post First post
Author
JinSanJong
Doomheim
#181 - 2013-10-01 20:16:03 UTC
Andski wrote:
JinSanJong wrote:
So whats stopping goonswarm or any other large null sec alliance taking over EVERY poco in high sec in no time?


the fact that we'd have to grind thousands of interbus COs or POCOs belonging to players who beat us to them, the fact that we'd have to drop close to a trillion ISK in POCOs, and place pocos on every planet

this is a ridiculous idea that we haven't even entertained because it's a waste of time


Ok and think of the payback? please dont tell me you havent licked your lips at this and already have a plan to take over a 'significant' chunk of them, particular in range of the north. Even your fellow goons are already stating it,
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#182 - 2013-10-01 20:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[quote=Elana Maggal
First off, POCO's in nullsec won't have the 10% NPC tax rate (5% with skills). This is a HUGE deal, as Big Alliances have logistics chains setup to really minimize the efforts required to move PI goods back and forth.

Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%.

This change makes highsec PI more viable.
This change adds highsec targets to spark wars over.
This adds a new income stream for entrepreneurial groups.
This adds a new method to conduct economic manipulation of markets (instead of Ice interdiction, we get Enriched Uranium Interdictions).

How can you possibly think this is bad for the game?


CCP and goons can do whatever the **** the want in nul-sec. That's what it's there for - free-for-all, high risk and high reward. I have no problem with removing NPC tax rates from nul-sec.

However, you need to read the proposed changes more carefully.

1) the owner of the CUSTOM office can black list anyone they choose for IMPORTS.
2) they can charge whatever they want in addition to the NPC tax. Essentially having complete control over a single planetary PI production - since no one is going to use a custom's office with a ridiculous tariff on it.
3) Many people play or have alts in hi-sec to AVOID WARS. If you want WARS there is plenty of it in low-sec and nul-sec. Turning hi-sec in yet another war area is lazy CPP developers wanting to not produce quality in the game elsewhere. If you want to do that - why even have hi-sec? Why not just turn all of eve into nul-sec and be done with it? Then have any new players in EVE first kiss the ass of any of the what? 5 or 6 big sociopathic alliance leaders if they want to pay a monthly subscription.
4) This adds a new method of economic manipulation for only the power brokers in the game. It gives them dominance in hi-sec PI and they get this dominance by unfair monopolization of hi-sec planets Customs office. The hi-sec players - some who do not play in nul-sec cannot compete with nul-sec ALLIANCES. There is NO COMPETITION. Instead of multiple custom offices at a planet there is just ONE. And mark my words: the valuable ones such as the PLASMA planets will be monopolized by the Big Alliances - just as the valuable Moons are.

This does not make PI more viable. It makes it more expensive and it create more control for the Big Alliances. And you're deluding yourself if you think that every PLASMA planet close to JITA won't be controlled by a big Alliance. And there really isn't a lot of them around - besides the bogus argument that there are plenty of planets available so we need not worry about access. BULL SHEET.
JinSanJong
Doomheim
#183 - 2013-10-01 20:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: JinSanJong
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:






First off, POCO's in nullsec won't have the 10% NPC tax rate (5% with skills). This is a HUGE deal, as Big Alliances have logistics chains setup to really minimize the efforts required to move PI goods back and forth.

Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%.

This change makes highsec PI more viable.
This change adds highsec targets to spark wars over.
This adds a new income stream for entrepreneurial groups.
This adds a new method to conduct economic manipulation of markets (instead of Ice interdiction, we get Enriched Uranium Interdictions).

How can you possibly think this is bad for the game?



wow you actually believe that?

Do you know how much its costs to wardec goons or any other large alliance? And even if you did do think most enterprenuers can cope with a 500+ blob protecting the poco?
The pocos will be taken over by big entities simple fact

so no its very bad for the game
so yet again CCP makes eve about large nullsec alliances, giving them massive passive income. moving more towards goons online.. seriously its tie to unsub i think
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2013-10-01 20:27:20 UTC
JinSanJong wrote:


moving more towards sociopaths online


Fixed that for you

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
Still Irrelevant
#185 - 2013-10-01 20:31:30 UTC
High-sec POCOs: Another genuinely good CCP idea that is about to be ruined by CCP because they are BAD at details!

Let me fix it for you:

1. Make customs offices have NOTHING to do with CONCORD. Anyone doing anything to a CO will not be accosted by CONCORD, nor protected by them. Incidentally, this makes sense as CONCORD is losing control of all of their COs. Why should they protect anything? So, this will remove the prohibitive wardec cost which has been oft brought up in this thread (and has yet to even be acknowledged by CCP). Also, whomever is attacking a POCO will get a suspect flag, making them attack-able by anyone in system, including a bunch of non-affiliated solo players who can "work together" on the reinforce timer to protect the CO if they like the tax levels and/or owning corp/alliance.

2. Remove NPC tax completely from POCOs. These are PLAYER OWNED Customs Offices. The incentive to use lowsec COs should have nothing to do with an NPC imposed tax. Better resources maybe? Maybe.. just MAYBE lowsec should have the best resources.. better than nullsec since given risk vs reward it is definitely more risky to do PI in lowsec than in nullsec or wormholes. An NPC tax on highsec doesn't even address the incentive to use lowsec. It only lowers the revenue collected by highsec POCO owners, as they will adjust their tax rates to keep people in highsec.

3. Work on some mechanism (structure, DUST, whatever) that allows solo and small group players to protect their POCO assets with ISK. Strangely, not all MMO computer nerds are masters at social interaction, much less organization. Do we need to continue to require that as a prerequisite for success, or could the trader who has amassed 2 trillion ISK buy some.. oh I don't know... sentry guns, drones, NPC mercs, whatever, that will reliably add defense to his property?

Thanks for reading, CCP.
scatter gun
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2013-10-01 20:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: scatter gun
Quote:
A corporation that owns a Customs Office cannot transfer ownership if they are at war or have a war pending. This does not apply to transferring ownership to another corporation in the same Alliance as the owner (as the war will still cover those).


what about customs offices that are in nullsec/lowsec? that can be attacked regardless of war dec status... the power blocks that sometimes shuffle these offices between them? you have just taken functionality in a bad direction for the power blocks of nullsec....

just saying.... its going to be no fun shooting pocos just because an allied entity cant transfer it because null alliances remain almost permanantly war deced....

Quote:
New Skill: Customs Code Expertise

We are introducing a new trainable skill, Customs Code Expertise, which will reduce the NPC portion of the tax rate, but 10% per level (so at level 5 the NPC export tax rate will be 5% rather than 10%). Again, this skill only affects the NPC portion of the tax, not the player owner tax.


also... this... what use will this be when EVERY npc poco gets bashed within a couple weeks of the ability to bash them... this skill will ONLY be useful for the duration that it takes to kill every npc poco.... and then its wasted SP.... or will interbus periodically reinstate POCOs finally?

as much as i like the idea of reduced npc tax rates... where was this skill years ago when PI Started.... before people started making plans to crush EVERY NPC poco....
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#187 - 2013-10-01 20:34:10 UTC
Aryth wrote:
JinSanJong wrote:


moving more towards sociopaths online


Fixed that for you


New Acronymn: NSASO

NSA Sociopaths online - secretly spying on your game play - to protect your freedom!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#188 - 2013-10-01 20:43:05 UTC
JinSanJong wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:






First off, POCO's in nullsec won't have the 10% NPC tax rate (5% with skills). This is a HUGE deal, as Big Alliances have logistics chains setup to really minimize the efforts required to move PI goods back and forth.

Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%.

This change makes highsec PI more viable.
This change adds highsec targets to spark wars over.
This adds a new income stream for entrepreneurial groups.
This adds a new method to conduct economic manipulation of markets (instead of Ice interdiction, we get Enriched Uranium Interdictions).

How can you possibly think this is bad for the game?



wow you actually believe that?

Do you know how much its costs to wardec goons or any other large alliance? And even if you did do think most enterprenuers can cope with a 500+ blob protecting the poco?
The pocos will be taken over by big entities simple fact

so no its very bad for the game
so yet again CCP makes eve about large nullsec alliances, giving them massive passive income. moving more towards goons online.. seriously its tie to unsub i think


It costs 500m to wardec a large alliance. Big isk to a new player, not unmanageable to most player groups, and chump change to EvE's industrious base.

Do they outnumber you? Probably, but so what. Agony is a small group compared to 90% of Nullsec Alliances, and we've taken POCO's and moon-goo POSes from entities many times our size. You have to remember that a bigger group of people has many potential targets, and they can't maintain focus on every one of them. You may not succeed the first attack, but be determined and vigilant and you can reclaim a tower as you like. Furthermore, since they can't use cyno-travel to bridge directly to the system, nullsec allliances will provide amazing opportunities for guerrilla warfare as they move to/and from a POCO defense.

Finally, the Goons may have some big bad wolf label, but their playerbase dies just as readily and easily as that miner in an ice belt. As a small guy taking on a goliath, aim for small victories (kill scouts and stragglers, make their life hell, undermine or profit from their actions).
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#189 - 2013-10-01 20:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Promiscuous Female
Elana Maggal wrote:

New Acronymn: NSASO

NSA Sociopaths online - secretly spying on your game play - to protect your freedom!

this implies that we think you deserve freedom which as a guy who does eve stuff all the time is fucking surreal and makes me laugh on my ass
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#190 - 2013-10-01 20:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
JinSanJong wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:






First off, POCO's in nullsec won't have the 10% NPC tax rate (5% with skills). This is a HUGE deal, as Big Alliances have logistics chains setup to really minimize the efforts required to move PI goods back and forth.

Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%.

This change makes highsec PI more viable.
This change adds highsec targets to spark wars over.
This adds a new income stream for entrepreneurial groups.
This adds a new method to conduct economic manipulation of markets (instead of Ice interdiction, we get Enriched Uranium Interdictions).

How can you possibly think this is bad for the game?



wow you actually believe that?

Do you know how much its costs to wardec goons or any other large alliance? And even if you did do think most enterprenuers can cope with a 500+ blob protecting the poco?
The pocos will be taken over by big entities simple fact

so no its very bad for the game
so yet again CCP makes eve about large nullsec alliances, giving them massive passive income. moving more towards goons online.. seriously its tie to unsub i think


It costs 500m to wardec a large alliance. Big isk to a new player, not unmanageable to most player groups, and chump change to EvE's industrious base.

Do they outnumber you? Probably, but so what. Agony is a small group compared to 90% of Nullsec Alliances, and we've taken POCO's and moon-goo POSes from entities many times our size. You have to remember that a bigger group of people has many potential targets, and they can't maintain focus on every one of them. You may not succeed the first attack, but be determined and vigilant and you can reclaim a tower as you like. Furthermore, since they can't use cyno-travel to bridge directly to the system, nullsec allliances will provide amazing opportunities for guerrilla warfare as they move to/and from a POCO defense.

Finally, the Goons may have some big bad wolf label, but their playerbase dies just as readily and easily as that miner in an ice belt. As a small guy taking on a goliath, aim for small victories (kill scouts and stragglers, make their life hell, undermine or profit from their actions).


1. Turning hi-sec into another warzone is just stupid. You have low-sec, faction warfare, and nul-sec for that. A safe industrial base is what many players DEPEND on in order not have to be beholden to a few Alliances. Or players who don't want to deal with being raped by some gank squad or goon BLOB everytime they log online and want to simply sell something.

2. Many hi-sec players will not be able to compete or fight militarily a large alliance. This is just delusional. And if you think spending 500 mil for PI access is worth it - that's just off the charts crazy thinking.
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#191 - 2013-10-01 20:52:45 UTC
I'm looking forward to all the New greif incomming to highsec! Even if People dont care about it, they will do it because they can do it, and someone is going to give tears. Basic human behaivour..
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#192 - 2013-10-01 20:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Elana Maggal wrote:

New Acronymn: NSASO

NSA Sociopaths online - secretly spying on your game play - to protect your freedom!

this implies that we think you deserve freedom which as a guy who does eve stuff all the time is fucking surreal and makes me laugh on my ass


But you really gotta wonder who the real sociopaths are ... those who are snooping on you without your consent - or those who are retired and are supposedly free to do what they want with their time (in a supposedly free country.)
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#193 - 2013-10-01 21:02:32 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Woo! Feedback time :)

Ahem. *cough cough*

Blink

Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield?


Two words, one name: Jade Constantine

oh wait CCP doesn't like people "dog pilling" on others in mutual wars because eve online has to be same for everyone.


Unless you are a giant nullsec alliance (think I read that in a Dinsdale Pirannha's comment)

Guess the only bone CCP wants to throw at hisec carebears is "manually launching goods to space"


I think an owner of a hisec POCO should be able to decide, when anyone that is shooting at his/her POCO during a war,
whether to set shooting his/her POCO's can create a suspect flag, by giving the POCO Optional Suspect Flag Settings

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#194 - 2013-10-01 21:04:23 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Woo! Feedback time :)

Ahem. *cough cough*

Blink

Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield?


1) PI yield in highsec is terrible. Taxes make it more terrible.
2) Solo PI, a good tool for newbies to get on their feet in the first place, and a good way for PVP pilots who have to earn their own way outside the corp, can be declared dead. Now it's about COCOs (POCO is a misnomer - these are owned by corporations)
3) Combining the two above, and keeping NPC corp tax on top of it (even if it's skill-assisted), is foolhardy.

Happily I use a COCO in a wormhole where yields are good, taxes are nonexistent, and you have to be in a corp to survive anyhow. Sorry new players, you get to submit to The Will of Goonswarm (coming soon: PI interdictions!). Also this will help my prices so have at it.

Also, Malcanis' Law much? Or doesn't that count if it's aimed at the vets and giants from the start?

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-10-01 21:08:00 UTC
I agree that the NPC tax should be removed from Highsec POCOs. The NPC Tax doesn't fit into the lore, if capsuleers are going to be taking over the POCOs.

The difference in profitability between highsec, lowsec, and nullsec PI is already based on the amount of resources that can be extracted from the planets. Yes, this doesn't include players using factory planets, but in the larger scheme of things, I don't think that is as significant.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#196 - 2013-10-01 21:09:11 UTC
Elana Maggal wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[quote=Elana Maggal
First off, POCO's in nullsec won't have the 10% NPC tax rate (5% with skills). This is a HUGE deal, as Big Alliances have logistics chains setup to really minimize the efforts required to move PI goods back and forth.

Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%.

This change makes highsec PI more viable.
This change adds highsec targets to spark wars over.
This adds a new income stream for entrepreneurial groups.
This adds a new method to conduct economic manipulation of markets (instead of Ice interdiction, we get Enriched Uranium Interdictions).

How can you possibly think this is bad for the game?


CCP and goons can do whatever the **** the want in nul-sec. That's what it's there for - free-for-all, high risk and high reward. I have no problem with removing NPC tax rates from nul-sec.

However, you need to read the proposed changes more carefully.

1) the owner of the CUSTOM office can black list anyone they choose for IMPORTS.
2) they can charge whatever they want in addition to the NPC tax. Essentially having complete control over a single planetary PI production - since no one is going to use a custom's office with a ridiculous tariff on it.
3) Many people play or have alts in hi-sec to AVOID WARS. If you want WARS there is plenty of it in low-sec and nul-sec. Turning hi-sec in yet another war area is lazy CPP developers wanting to not produce quality in the game elsewhere. If you want to do that - why even have hi-sec? Why not just turn all of eve into nul-sec and be done with it? Then have any new players in EVE first kiss the ass of any of the what? 5 or 6 big sociopathic alliance leaders if they want to pay a monthly subscription.
4) This adds a new method of economic manipulation for only the power brokers in the game. It gives them dominance in hi-sec PI and they get this dominance by unfair monopolization of hi-sec planets Customs office. The hi-sec players - some who do not play in nul-sec cannot compete with nul-sec ALLIANCES. There is NO COMPETITION. Instead of multiple custom offices at a planet there is just ONE. And mark my words: the valuable ones such as the PLASMA planets will be monopolized by the Big Alliances - just as the valuable Moons are.

This does not make PI more viable. It makes it more expensive and it create more control for the Big Alliances. And you're deluding yourself if you think that every PLASMA planet close to JITA won't be controlled by a big Alliance. And there really isn't a lot of them around - besides the bogus argument that there are plenty of planets available so we need not worry about access. BULL SHEET.


1.) I own many POCO's myself, both with Agony and in industrial alt corps. I'm very aware of what I can and cannot do with them.

2.) If you don't trust the goons (which we all understand), then find a non-goon POCO. Find an entity you do trust. And if you only trust NPCs, then you'll never get very far in this game.

3.) The activities of players in highsec effect those in lowsec and nullsec, and vice versa. These aren't independent zones with independent economies. The EvE Verse is all tied together, and while your activities in highsec are generally "safer", it is not intended to be a zone free from the influence of other players, including aggressive combat. Furthermore, the rules of engagement in highsec greatly change the dynamics of how battles are fought there. This means tactics change, playstyles change, and creates unique areas of game play.

4.) Highsec has been under extreme economic manipulation for a very, very long time (look at moongoo, ice interdictions, and many, many more). From wealthy highsec industrialists to major nullsec alliances to that new player experimenting with module prices in your local trade hub, it has been going on since the game started. This provides a new method of resource manipulation, but that isn't some bad thing, nor is it a simple thing to implement either. You live with it right now, and it hasn't destroyed the economy or gimped your playstyle. This may make the PI market a bit more volatile, but volatile markets leave lots of room for players to make lots of isk. And if you are simply a resource harvester that wants to accrue some extra isk by PI'ing, you don't lose anything as you still gain PI resources.

Why do you care if every plasma planet in highsec is controlled by a major alliance. Unless those major alliances produce more enriched uranium or whatever else your producing on that plasma planet than all of EvE consumes, the market will balance out reflect the increased costs of acquiring such products. Furthermore, if costs rise enough, you can harvest the resources from two non-plasma planets and combine them to produce anything you could on a plasma planet.

The sky isn't falling, the market generally passes taxes on to the consumer, and while the goons can manipulate markets, the average player simply pays $4 / gallon of gas this month instead of $3.50.
M1k3y Koontz
Stay Feral Mining Logistics and Manufacturing
Stay Feral
#197 - 2013-10-01 21:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Interesting, so how much does a war against Goonswarm cost now again?


^ This. While I doubt that Goons will take over all highsec POCOs because they can't drop 4000 people into a random highsec system, because there are no titan bridges, and because they are already stretched, that last issue is more of a non-issue due to the ridiculous war cost

Inactive players (characters who haven't logged in in over 90 days) shouldn't count toward war cost.


Back on topic: yay, highsec pocos! Not being able to transfer while in war does seem like an issue, though I can see how players being able to transfer to an alt corp would be an issue. Could it be changed so that POCOs can only be transferred to corporations actively at war with a corporation?
Or am I missing something obvious since my interaction with wardecs are "Oh look, we got decced by some highsec mercs, better not autopilot haulers"


Oh, and the skill to reduce taxes, seems like a waste? Why not just lower the tax, if its a 1x skill it seems pointless to have, and if its higher, nobody will train it past L3 because it would be a waste of time for a 1% discount on highsec PI, which is not exactly a cash cow unless several max skilled characters are involved.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#198 - 2013-10-01 21:21:30 UTC
Elana Maggal wrote:


1. Turning hi-sec into another warzone is just stupid. You have low-sec, faction warfare, and nul-sec for that. A safe industrial base is what many players DEPEND on in order not have to be beholden to a few Alliances. Or players who don't want to deal with being raped by some gank squad or goon BLOB everytime they log online and want to simply sell something.

2. Many hi-sec players will not be able to compete or fight militarily a large alliance. This is just delusional. And if you think spending 500 mil for PI access is worth it - that's just off the charts crazy thinking.


1. News flash.... Highsec is already a warzone. This doesn't change the core game play of highsec, as it is still a "safe industrial base" that players can depend on. Did the increase yield of nullsec ores stopped highsec mining? Did goon's ice interdiction really make it so you can't operate a research POS? Did the increased MFG slots in nullsec make it so you can't manufacture items? Frankly, there are enough profit-minded risk-accepting players in EvE that PI products will continue to be produced even if goons owned every Highsec Planet. Your disillusion if you believe otherwise!

2. The average-joe alliance doesn't need to compete with large alliances. Most people won't be majorly affected by this, and those few that are will either find new avenues in eve to play, or if they are smart, adapt to the new situation and pass the "taxes" on to the consumers.


Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#199 - 2013-10-01 21:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Elana Maggal
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


1.) I own many POCO's myself, both with Agony and in industrial alt corps. I'm very aware of what I can and cannot do with them.


Then you are aware a 500 mil wardec just to fight over a custom's office is absurd. No hi-sec player will want to pay that for PI.


Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

2.) If you don't trust the goons (which we all understand), then find a non-goon POCO. Find an entity you do trust. And if you only trust NPCs, then you'll never get very far in this game.


There should be enough sand in the box for everyone, not just bullies who can monopolize more and more resources.


Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) The activities of players in highsec effect those in lowsec and nullsec, and vice versa. These aren't independent zones with independent economies. The EvE Verse is all tied together, and while your activities in highsec are generally "safer", it is not intended to be a zone free from the influence of other players, including aggressive combat. Furthermore, the rules of engagement in highsec greatly change the dynamics of how battles are fought there. This means tactics change, playstyles change, and creates unique areas of game play.


PI was intended for a viable income for new players. Hi-sec was originally intended for low-risk income base, and is very suitable for solo players who do not wish to get involved in nul-sec alliance play - or more importantly, for player alts who
want to make an income not dependent on the good will of nul-sec alliances and a ridiculously few wealthy nul-sec power players. What is being proposed here takes away options from hi-sec players - it will give more control of PI to the big
Alliances and the control will not be competitive economically. It might be competitive militarily but only between big alliances
- so it will turn hi-sec into a nul-sec big alliance war ground.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

4.) Highsec has been under extreme economic manipulation for a very, very long time (look at moongoo, ice interdictions, and many, many more). From wealthy highsec industrialists to major nullsec alliances to that new player experimenting with module prices in your local trade hub, it has been going on since the game started. This provides a new method of resource manipulation, but that isn't some bad thing, nor is it a simple thing to implement either. You live with it right now, and it hasn't destroyed the economy or gimped your playstyle. This may make the PI market a bit more volatile, but volatile markets leave lots of room for players to make lots of isk. And if you are simply a resource harvester that wants to accrue some extra isk by PI'ing, you don't lose anything as you still gain PI resources.

Why do you care if every plasma planet in highsec is controlled by a major alliance. Unless those major alliances produce more enriched uranium or whatever else your producing on that plasma planet than all of EvE consumes, the market will balance out reflect the increased costs of acquiring such products. Furthermore, if costs rise enough, you can harvest the resources from two non-plasma planets and combine them to produce anything you could on a plasma planet.

The sky isn't falling, the market generally passes taxes on to the consumer, and while the goons can manipulate markets, the average player simply pays $4 / gallon of gas this month instead of $3.50.


hi-sec has been under economic manipulation but not a monopoly. This will monopolize the high value PI planets and will make running POS's in hi-sec more expensive. (Which probably has been the plan all along.) It's too bad CPP couldn't be more creative in their design and instead of taking away options from hi-sec players - thought up ways to add more options and extend hi-sec play.

One way to extend options here and make it more competitive would be to allow multiple custom's offices at a single planet. Then there would be no monopoly on a planet's resources.

And the argument that there are plenty of other planets is a bogus one - as anyone who has played Eve long enough - especially in hi-sec realizes where the hubs of play are - Jita, Dodixie etc. and certain locations are only available for POS managing, Ice mining and PI. So there might be thousands of planets out there - but we all know that it will really come down to a relatively few sectors of planets - where most of the Industrialists work out of (easy to identify) and control of the most critical planets PLASMA & LAVA. Moving to some remote location to perform your Industrial stuff just for PI - nobody is going to do unless you're a glutten for self flaggelation.

So the multiple planets arguments is BS. The Big Alliances WILL HAVE A PI MONOPOLIES with the current proposed changes.
Elana Maggal
Chandra Labs
#200 - 2013-10-01 21:25:05 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Elana Maggal wrote:


1. Turning hi-sec into another warzone is just stupid. You have low-sec, faction warfare, and nul-sec for that. A safe industrial base is what many players DEPEND on in order not have to be beholden to a few Alliances. Or players who don't want to deal with being raped by some gank squad or goon BLOB everytime they log online and want to simply sell something.

2. Many hi-sec players will not be able to compete or fight militarily a large alliance. This is just delusional. And if you think spending 500 mil for PI access is worth it - that's just off the charts crazy thinking.


1. News flash.... Highsec is already a warzone. This doesn't change the core game play of highsec, as it is still a "safe industrial base" that players can depend on. Did the increase yield of nullsec ores stopped highsec mining? Did goon's ice interdiction really make it so you can't operate a research POS? Did the increased MFG slots in nullsec make it so you can't manufacture items? Frankly, there are enough profit-minded risk-accepting players in EvE that PI products will continue to be produced even if goons owned every Highsec Planet. Your disillusion if you believe otherwise!

2. The average-joe alliance doesn't need to compete with large alliances. Most people won't be majorly affected by this, and those few that are will either find new avenues in eve to play, or if they are smart, adapt to the new situation and pass the "taxes" on to the consumers.




Hi-sec is already a warzone? LOL