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Making High Sec Safer

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Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#41 - 2013-09-30 16:41:06 UTC
But high sec is safe

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Velicitia
XS Tech
#42 - 2013-09-30 16:54:09 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
So fly a Procurer/Skiff and fit a tank. Max yield fits are for people who are mining in well guarded null sov space with intel channels. They have no place in hisec and possibly no place in null sec either.


or for people in empire with a decent support system ...

know the locals
Have NIP/NAP with the locals (or blue status, etc)
watch local for new contacts
watch d-scan
have corpies watching the stations/gates (generally lowsec)

Honestly, the thing that got me "stuck" into the industrial side of EVE when I started:

a) The industrial guys I met were great to talk with (combat-oriented dudes were generally too busy to chat -- e.g. in a gang/fleet)
b) The industrial guys stuck together more or less ... combat guys were around, but if the problem was minor (can flipper) we'd deal with it ourselves
c) Spreadsheets Twisted
d) Mining (at the start) and Manufacturing (now) is less grind-y feeling than missions to make ISK

This was all in hisec. Sure, there were times that I played the part of the loser ... but I can't recall ever being a "victim" as much after the first few months (yeah, it takes a while to drop the thought process of
1. "Starting Areas in MMOs are safe"
2. "EVE is a MMO"
3. "Therefore, the starting area in EVE is supposed to be safe")


One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#43 - 2013-09-30 17:21:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
This entire thread is based on a few misconceptions.

Just for the record:
Highsec is a PVP area. The entirety of EVE is. If you don't like to PVP, find another game.
Concord is there to punish players who engage in crime. They are not there to protect Hi-sec residents from PVP.


The above statement is 2 things:

#1. Absolutely true

#2. Absolutely incomprehensible to people like the OP (who think they should be "left alone" to do as they please). And there are a LOT of people like the OP.

If someone wanted to be left alone to do as they please, why are they playing an MMO?


The problem is that you cannot speak like this and think you represent the Eve Community and all the personalities in the game. MMO does not mean PVP, it means you play online with other people, there is no PVP or Gank in MMORPG and the point of MMORPG is to socialize with other people. The way you chose to socialize is up to you and the game should direct in which way you are allowed to socialize. Do not for a minute get me wrong but the joy of Eve, for me at least, is that you have three different Security space and it is all sandbox. I am only saying that High Sec Space is High Sec Space and I feel that it allows easier PVP and the grip needs to be tightened, does not mean shut it down for PVP just decrease the risk for the pilots that do not wish to PVP.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#44 - 2013-09-30 17:22:46 UTC

EvE is not a hippy-commune share all utopia.

Your actions in EvE effect everyone else:
-- Mining that roid means I can't mine it.
-- Selling your ore lessens the value of my ore.
-- Accruing isk lowers the value of my isk.

Essentially, this is a dystopia, where everyone is competing for resources. There are many ways to compete, and suicide ganking, wardecs, awoxing, scamming, and whatever means people can think of are all means to "get ahead" in this game. Furthermore, they are activities that CCP not only allows, but encourages.

This is a world where what you do has an impact on others, whether you realize it or not. As such, it is ludicrous to ban or prevent others from engaging you in the most basic form available: Ship to ship combat!

Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#45 - 2013-09-30 17:24:12 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Where are all these ganks and gankers?

My trade and industry toon spends the majority of its time in HiSec (and I have a lot of contacts there as I spent my first year and a half in game as a miner / manufacturer before starting my second account) and if just half of what is claimed on the forums were true I wouldn't be able to get my freighter close enough to a gate to activate it for the wrecks littering it.

There is a very vocal HiSec minority screaming for more safety when to be honest the majority of players I know are happy to take the minimal risks in HiSec and just get on with their business from day to day without expecting CCP to be their guardian angel every second they are online.

If anything a fair number of them are sick and tired of being misrepresented on the forums by an ultra-risk averse minority.

Maybe I just know an unusual group of people but I suspect not.


P.S. Not Supported in case that wasn't obvious enough.


I have only hung around Caldari and Gallante space and I don't know where you are at but when your mining ship is blown up and you get a notification from the pilot that attacked you, this corporation has taken ownership of this SOL and you have to pay a mining fee, what can I do? I can relocate and keep relocating, thus, this will be the third relocate in less than 1.5 months.
Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#46 - 2013-09-30 17:27:22 UTC
Zachev Trace wrote:
Sigh, another "I want no risk of losing my ship in EVE" post. Exploitations, targeted ganks, and yes, even losing ships are all part of EVE. But at least its not a post about cargo scanners giving a person a criminal flag when used on a freighter lol... I see no reason to change high sec, rather, if you want to carebear safely go join a null sec mining alliance. That way you don't have to deal with anyone except a few belt rats.


In short, EVE is PVP oriented. That's how its always been and that's why EVE works, and with the new high sec POCO changes, it's about to get a lot hairier, so do yourself a favor and move somewhere else.


As for security status, It shouldn't be too big of a grind to regain that after you gank someone, otherwise people, well, never would. And yes, in EVE that's a problem. If no one ever loses a ship in high sec, then the available minerals would have to be drastically reduced to the point where there is nearly none available to the average miner to counter balance risk vs isk. And that, would cause even more competition in terms of ganking alts.


Also, PVP in EVE is NOT OPTIONAL. If you don't ever want to pvp the best way is to just stay docked. If it was optional, no one would ever lose a mining barge, or freighter, or even expensive officer fit battleships EVER. That would kill off part of EVE.

Again EVE is centered around PVP, so why should you be 100% safe anywhere when undocked. The sting of a loss is all part of the game, so get used to it. That's what makes EVE so awesome.


I was waiting for this and my post has generated it, go join a bigger corp and you are safe...is this really the way Eve should be? This is not about losing a ship, we are talking multiple ships and to reduce the loss a relocate is needed. After relocate it starts all over and you keep losing ships. To generate the isk circle of meeting demand and supply there needs to be a failsafe and unfortunatly I don't see it or feel it right now.

Move somewhere else, good solution :)
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-09-30 17:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
The problem is that you cannot speak like this and think you represent the Eve Community and all the personalities in the game. MMO does not mean PVP, it means you play online with other people,

I think you will find that bitter vets and PVPers make up the vast majority of the player base. So their opinion counts.

But EVE does mean PVP. With other people.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
there is no PVP or Gank in MMORPG

lol wut? How many MMOs have you played? Even easy mode WOW has PVP.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
and the point of MMORPG is to socialize with other people.

Ganking is a form of socializing and interacting with other people.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
The way you chose to socialize is up to you and the game should direct in which way you are allowed to socialize. Do not for a minute get me wrong but the joy of Eve, for me at least, is that you have three different Security space and it is all sandbox.

EVE does an excelent job of providing all the tools needed to interact with other players in a large number of ways. Ganking people is one of those ways and is just as valid as any other way. PVP in each of the three areas is vastly different from PVP in the other two. Working as intended.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
I am only saying that High Sec Space is High Sec Space and I feel that it allows easier PVP and the grip needs to be tightened, does not mean shut it down for PVP just decrease the risk for the pilots that do not wish to PVP.

No. It's already pretty darn tight. In fact it's so tight that only the very risk averse like it much. There are already plenty of ways you can decrease your risk.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
Are you familiar with locator agents?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#48 - 2013-09-30 17:37:10 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:

I have only hung around Caldari and Gallante space and I don't know where you are at but when your mining ship is blown up and you get a notification from the pilot that attacked you, this corporation has taken ownership of this SOL and you have to pay a mining fee, what can I do? I can relocate and keep relocating, thus, this will be the third relocate in less than 1.5 months.


Your options:

1. move
2. pay the fee
3. contest their ownership (i.e. shoot them).

You're in a corp with 22 members, which is part of an alliance with another 100 pilots or so. A corp/alliance of this size shouldn't really be impacted by a corp that's only got a handful of members. Granted, they will be better than you in a "fair" fight (coordinated, logistics, probably "neutral" support) ... but honestly, when was the last time anyone fought "fair" in EVE?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-09-30 17:43:15 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
I was waiting for this and my post has generated it, go join a bigger corp and you are safe...is this really the way Eve should be?

Considering that EVE is an MMO, yes.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
This is not about losing a ship, we are talking multiple ships and to reduce the loss a relocate is needed. After relocate it starts all over and you keep losing ships. To generate the isk circle of meeting demand and supply there needs to be a failsafe and unfortunatly I don't see it or feel it right now.

Ships exist to explode. It is their purpose. It makes ore worth something. But if you keep loosing ships so often that you can't afford to replace them then perhaps you should think about how you are fitting and flying them.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
Move somewhere else, good solution :)

It's actually an excellent solution. Not only does null sec have better ore but I hear that gankers are quite rare in null. Even hisec is pretty big. Just go somewhere else.
Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#50 - 2013-09-30 17:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcos Boirelle
Quote:
I think you will find that bitter vets and PVPers make up the vast majority of the player base. So their opinion counts.

But EVE does mean PVP. With other people.

lol wut? How many MMOs have you played? Even easy mode WOW has PVP.

Ganking is a form of socializing and interacting with other people.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
The way you chose to socialize is up to you and the game should direct in which way you are allowed to socialize. Do not for a minute get me wrong but the joy of Eve, for me at least, is that you have three different Security space and it is all sandbox.

EVE does an excelent job of providing all the tools needed to interact with other players in a large number of ways. Ganking people is one of those ways and is just as valid as any other way. PVP in each of the three areas is vastly different from PVP in the other two. Working as intended.

Marcos Boirelle wrote:
I am only saying that High Sec Space is High Sec Space and I feel that it allows easier PVP and the grip needs to be tightened, does not mean shut it down for PVP just decrease the risk for the pilots that do not wish to PVP.

No. It's already pretty darn tight. In fact it's so tight that only the very risk averse like it much. There are already plenty of ways you can decrease your risk. Posting to the forums whining about it is not one of them. Are you familiar with locator agents?


So now we will threaten people for posting in a thread called ideas and features, this is absolutely amazing...
Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#51 - 2013-09-30 17:58:13 UTC
To summarize this, in regards to this being an ideas and features thread, some very good advice, a few agreed to some of my ideas and I can agree that they were ideas but the reactions were not expected...not only was I threatened by someone who obviously was targeted by my post but I was also proclaimed to be a victim, interesting.

When I get ganked I don't feel like a victim, I feel irritated but yet I accept the situation. What I do not accept is an initiation from CCP to share my ideas, thoughts and features on the forums and while doing this I am attacked by individuals that cannot refrain from using tough words and aggressive behavior. All in all, to you who have advised, it is highly appreciated and I still feel there is a perk missing for high security status.
Olaf4862
Dragoon Industries Limited
#52 - 2013-09-30 18:17:32 UTC
Sounds like the solution to this is War Dec's against a single person even if they are in a NPC corp. If you can not run or hide and shield yourself then you will be accountable for your actions.

In response to this if a single person is wardec'ed in a player run corporation for example the corp could pick up the war dec in favor of helping there pilot.
Dream Kim
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#53 - 2013-09-30 18:22:14 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
We all know that there are three different types of space for players;

  • You have Null Sec where almost all and most PVP take place. This is a enter at your own risk space.


  • You have Low Sec which is something between PVE and PVP, basically don't fly with one eye closed.


  • You hace High Sec for all players that rather not PVP and focus on content that is out of scope for conflict.


Except this is completely wrong. In fact, most ship destruction takes place in High Security space.

If you don't want to PvP, that's fine - but understand that any time you undock, players can force PvP upon you. If you don't like it, leave EVE. CCP is not obligated to cater to you and hold your hand.

Quote:
The technology available allows blocking certain ship types from accessing acceleration gates. This technology could be used to secure High Sec from allowing ships belonging to Pilots with a history of High Sec violance, thus, the pilot cannot use a High Sec stargate.


This is just dumb. You have no right to restrict another person's gameplay. This idea would effectively bar all of RvB from HiSec.

Quote:
When a pilot violates High Sec law, not only should the pilot's ship be destroyed but the pilot should be killed or arrested and fined. If arrested the pilot's ship should be confiscated.


How do you confiscate the ship that was just destroyed?

Quote:
The higher security status the victim has the more focus is given towards the penalty received for attacikng this pilot in High Sec space.


Why should someone be penalized because their victim ran a lot of missions?

Quote:
Concord reaction time is to slow, the loss for an unarmed miner for instance will always be greater than the loss for an attacker. Concord to hire more pilots and be more active in High Sec Space.


Under what justification?
Dream Kim
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#54 - 2013-09-30 18:30:24 UTC
Quote:
PVP is an option


No, no it's not. Unless you stay docked. Which you should do until you're bored enough to go play a game you actually comprehend...
Maekchu
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-09-30 18:44:47 UTC
Learn how to avoid getting ganked.

Or, just wardec the corporation that keeps bugging you and fight back, or pay of some mercenaries to do the fighting for you.

High sec is safe enough as it is...

Honestly, there are enough highsec systems for you, to find one in a spot that is not really attractive for gankers to come and find you, unless they want specifically to hunt YOU down. Which might be the case, since you seem like the type that pays of a decent amount of tears when popped.
Jade III
Sebiestor Tribe
#56 - 2013-09-30 18:45:21 UTC
If you want zone restrictions WoW is your game.

My adventure blog: http://lonewolfadventures.wordpress.com/
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2013-09-30 18:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
So now we will threaten people for posting in a thread called ideas and features, this is absolutely amazing...

If you had bothered to check my killboard history you would see that I live in null sec Providence as part of the NRDS coalition and have never participated in a single barge or industrial gank in my entire life in any region of space, hi, low, or null. Nor am I a particularly active PvP'er.

I was trying to warn you of one of the dangers of forum posting. But whatever. I may live by a set of rules that prohibit me from shooting neutrals like yourself but most of the EVE community has no such constraints and this is exactly how it should be.
DIRTY ERNIE
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-09-30 18:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: DIRTY ERNIE
THE BE ALL END REPLY TO THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC...


Just because you're allowed to mine, rat or PVE of any kind in your part of the sandbox; doesn't mean i'm not allowed to pee in the sand where you are playing.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Twisted ISD Ezwal If you're going to edit my post at least follow it with a quoted rule or something stating how what i had orginally posted was breaking a forum rule.Twisted

[b][i]"Give a noob fire and he will warm for a Day.  Light a Noob on Fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life"[/i][/b]

_   -Dirty Ernie_
Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#59 - 2013-09-30 19:21:23 UTC
If you feel that hunting me down for posting on the forums then I guess that is how it works.

Either way, I stand by my post and the fact that the invitation was open from CCP to share ideas.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-09-30 19:25:23 UTC
The invitation is also there to go searching for gas leaks with a flame thrower, but you don't do that, do you?



Eve isn't WoW. Part of a Sandbox means people can do stuff, and other people might not like it.


Don't undock what you're not prepared to lose. Reconsider your play habits. Don't Forum thread 'Make me safe like in WoW.'

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal