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CCP strangling Hisec carebears?

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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#61 - 2013-09-28 11:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Antaria Wildsun wrote:
I have about a dozen or so POCO's in wormholes that I no longer inhabit. I set the taxes at a reasonable tax rate, and as far as I recall, almost all of them are being used. Why? because the taxes are so low that it is not worth the effort to destroy and replace them. This is what you will largely see when the HS ones become active.

Quite.

Only time we've ever bashed POCOs in our home WH is when the competing corp set rates too high. Usually it only takes a credible threat to get the rates changed to something reasonable. The only corp that wouldn't play, well, they don't live there any more. In fact, they don't live *anywhere* any more. Blink

A Hi-Sec full of low-to-moderate rate POCOs seems a very good thing to me - Lower prices, higher production, more cheap ships to blow up. Everyone wins. Except for the self-entitled.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#62 - 2013-09-28 11:48:45 UTC
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:

Now CCP is going to let griefers overtax the alredy highly taxed PI in hisec. Gee, thanks, but no thanks. Don't have time for it anymore.



Oh good God. Do it in Low sec.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#63 - 2013-09-28 11:51:12 UTC
Time to look for greener pastures...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2013-09-28 11:55:16 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:
Athelas Loraiel wrote:
if you PI in high sec, you must be doing it wrong.



Naw, I'm aware of the differences. Its a question of time. Don't have the time for low/wh/null or pvp. I've seen the PI strangulation that goes on with capturable customs. No thanks. I just don't see the point of CCP doing stuff like this. How does it make the game better? It certainly makes it worse for a casual who only has a couple hours each week.


What do CCP's actions tell you what they think of the casual player?

Let's see:

Ore mining prices inexorably sinking due to new massive null sec supplies.
High sec ice mining no longer available whenever someone logs on, and must be timed to the minute.
High sec PI profitability being hammered (unless you control the POCO).

Do you not think CCP is aware of the repercussions of these attacks on high sec?
What can you infer about the future of the casual player from these actions?

It appears that the lone CSM member that was elected on the platform of defending the interests of the casual high sec player has failed miserably.

yeah a lone CSM member against a stacked number of null sec goons (not the alliance although there's a few of them) as well.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#65 - 2013-09-28 11:57:44 UTC
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:
First, CCP destroys my ability to make a living doing hisec explor for profit by flooding the market and making it worthless. Fine, I move on to mining and PI.

Now CCP is going to let griefers overtax the alredy highly taxed PI in hisec. Gee, thanks, but no thanks. Don't have time for it anymore.

WTF CCP? War on teh carebears? Do you people even think about the consequences on players?


gr8 b8 m8
empyriosis Bheskagor
Black Crown Society
#66 - 2013-09-28 11:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: empyriosis Bheskagor
I think a few - or maybe more than a few, but not many in the context of high sec - will get placed and either A) it'll have a high tax and nobody will use it (if anyone was even doing PI in that location in the first place, a concept I find dubious) or B) it'll have a reasonable tax rate and they may get lucky and happen to place it where, uh, somebody is doing PI and is too lazy to go somewhere else. Then they can make a tiny income that'll maybe pay for the POCO, eventually.

Placing and defending enough POCOs to make a decent income or drive any kind of conflict with the handful of people doing PI in high sec sounds like the worst kind of tedium. If they raised highsec PI income it might change the situation, but I don't see that happening. The most likely scenario I can imagine is one of those handful of highsec PI'ers will throw one up to lower their tax, someone will Wardec them and shoot the POCO and nothing else will happen.

This particular feature gets a big shrug from me.
Hypercake Mix
#67 - 2013-09-28 12:05:49 UTC
I don't expect 'griefers' to scour high-sec for sub-par PI planets or bash POCOs when high-sec is full of better and easier things to 'grief'.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#68 - 2013-09-28 12:40:28 UTC
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:
First, CCP destroys my ability to make a living doing hisec explor for profit by flooding the market and making it worthless. Fine, I move on to mining and PI.

Now CCP is going to let griefers overtax the alredy highly taxed PI in hisec. Gee, thanks, but no thanks. Don't have time for it anymore.

WTF CCP? War on teh carebears? Do you people even think about the consequences on players?

I think the appropriate response is aww diddums. Find some like minded industrialists/PI manufacturers and set up your own POCOs. Not only will you get to set a preferential tax rate for yourselves, you get to set a reasonable one for anybody else, who's not in your little "trade association", that uses those planets for PI. Reasonable being lower than the current NPC tax rate.

It's not rocket science, and there's money to be made in the longterm.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#69 - 2013-09-28 12:59:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:
Athelas Loraiel wrote:
if you PI in high sec, you must be doing it wrong.



Naw, I'm aware of the differences. Its a question of time. Don't have the time for low/wh/null or pvp. I've seen the PI strangulation that goes on with capturable customs. No thanks. I just don't see the point of CCP doing stuff like this. How does it make the game better? It certainly makes it worse for a casual who only has a couple hours each week.


What do CCP's actions tell you what they think of the casual player?

Let's see:

Ore mining prices inexorably sinking due to new massive null sec supplies.
High sec ice mining no longer available whenever someone logs on, and must be timed to the minute.
High sec PI profitability being hammered (unless you control the POCO).

Do you not think CCP is aware of the repercussions of these attacks on high sec?
What can you infer about the future of the casual player from these actions?

It appears that the lone CSM member that was elected on the platform of defending the interests of the casual high sec player has failed miserably.

yeah a lone CSM member against a stacked number of null sec goons (not the alliance although there's a few of them) as well.
If folks wanted a non-Nul-bloc CSM, they should've voted. Since they didn't, they effectively ceded control to Nul-Bloc. IOW: Every abstention was a vote for Goons.

A bit late now to whine about the results of apathy. Suck it up, cupcakes! You've got the CSM you deserve!
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#70 - 2013-09-28 13:03:27 UTC
Did OP forget you can launch stuff in Space from your CC, so if the taxes are set too high you can just choose not to pay them?

Baddest poster ever
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-09-28 13:17:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
How long will it take my 1000 DPS Oracle to take down a POCO?


10 million HP.
10 Oracles take one down in 1000 seconds, or 18 minutes.

And when the null sec cartel fleets arrive, they will be a whole lot bigger than 10 Oracles.
Try seeing POCO's pop in 2 minutes.

In a big system, you might not even be able to undock and warp to the POCO before it will be gone.


Organize, bring more than they do. Take the oppurtuntity to strike at their null possessions while they are screwing with your possesions.

THINK. FIGHT BACK.



I swear, I will never understand the feeble minded, Until lately, i've been fighting goons non-stop since about 2008...

result? goons is still here and they are the biggest alliance.

looks like your non-stop fight has no visible results Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#72 - 2013-09-28 14:10:30 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Well Rhyonda... sorry to say that, but you made two major mistakes:
1) You thought EVE is a REAL sandbox, where every style of play is viable...
2) You came to the forums and complained about it...
...don't worry, I also made them. Blink


From what i've gathered, the best defense for POCOs in hisec will be the marginal profit they produce, but in case you have a profitable PI operation, likely you're going to be messed with.

EVE is becoming increasingly hostile to soloers, casuals and hiseccers. Either we are really a negligible minority and CCP just is teaching us a lesson, or CCP management has totally lost it and they're gonna regret it sooner or later.

When you're out of new buyers, selling the same with a different package is not a cunning move.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#73 - 2013-09-28 14:13:57 UTC
As a solo high seccer...

1) I am not new enough to the game to think every high sec Planet will have a POCO with stupid taxes
2) Soloing in highsec is just as viable as it has been before, although, I keep hearing that industry, trading and missions and mining are not viable anymore, I guess I just log into the wrong game every day.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#74 - 2013-09-28 14:18:54 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
As a solo high seccer...

1) I am not new enough to the game to think every high sec Planet will have a POCO with stupid taxes
2) Soloing in highsec is just as viable as it has been before, although, I keep hearing that industry, trading and missions and mining are not viable anymore, I guess I just log into the wrong game every day.


Try and read the OP, will you?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2013-09-28 14:22:41 UTC
Isn't npc tax on pocos higher than what a player can set?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#76 - 2013-09-28 14:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Murk Paradox wrote:
Isn't npc tax on pocos higher than what a player can set?

It is.

Well, a player can set range of tax as high or low as they like. NPC tax is higher than any sane Player would set. Unless they *want* to inspire a good bashing.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-09-28 14:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:
First, CCP destroys my ability to make a living doing hisec explor for profit by flooding the market and making it worthless. Fine, I move on to mining and PI.

Now CCP is going to let griefers overtax the alredy highly taxed PI in hisec. Gee, thanks, but no thanks. Don't have time for it anymore.

WTF CCP? War on teh carebears? Do you people even think about the consequences on players?


Oh please, carebears got the biggest and most important bit of love imaginable with Retribution and reduced ship detonations. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Would you like to know more?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2013-09-28 15:01:07 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Isn't npc tax on pocos higher than what a player can set?

Well, a player can set range of tax as high or low as they like. NPC tax is higher than any sane Player would set. Unless they *want* to inspire a good bashing.

So... structure shooting Shocked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-09-28 15:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Rhivre wrote:
As a solo high seccer...

1) I am not new enough to the game to think every high sec Planet will have a POCO with stupid taxes
2) Soloing in highsec is just as viable as it has been before, although, I keep hearing that industry, trading and missions and mining are not viable anymore, I guess I just log into the wrong game every day.

They're viable if you like making crappy isk.

I ran 3 sites the other day in null sec (combat sites):

1. Serp Base - Kill 10 dessie cruiser mix, then kill 1 very likely faction BS spawn or a structure that has about 1000hp for escalation. I got a SS Tracking Computer + Escalation. Time: 5 minutes. Profit: 240 million.

2. Escalation Site: Lots of ships but all you do is kill the Faction BS spawn at warp in for escalation and possible loot. I got a SS Remote Tracking Computer. Time: 20 seconds: Profit 80 million.

3. Serpentis Prison: Heaps of ships, lots of 1 million isk BS. Have to kill them all. 4th room very likely faction BS Spawn. I got a couple of SS armor hardeners not worth much. Last room crazy amount of ships. Great bounties. Soloable. Structure with chance to drop A-Type modules and Vindicator BP + always 21 Tier Overseers Effects. I got unlucky and a Goon squad showed up and claim they got a Vindi BPC. Me: about 70 million in loot and bounties. Them 1 billion 70 Million in Vindi and Effects. Time: 1 hour.

So that ended up being:

1 hour 5 minutes: 520 million in loot and bounties if Goons lied.
If Goons were telling the truth then 1,520 million in loot and bounties.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#80 - 2013-09-28 15:17:47 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Isn't npc tax on pocos higher than what a player can set?

Well, a player can set range of tax as high or low as they like. NPC tax is higher than any sane Player would set. Unless they *want* to inspire a good bashing.

So... structure shooting Shocked

Well, extortion to get favorable rates would probably be sufficient. Just pose a credible threat, and most will see the light.