Assembly Hall

For the sake of argument, let's say you were given the means to hunt cloaked ships.
And they gained nothing in exchange, for losing this protected isolating mode.

You see the player name appear in local. You are now alerted to start your hunting tools, in case they are cloaked.
You are at a gate camp. No I am not implying you can see the gate cloak, but you know many ships use a cloak to evade camps.
It makes sense these cloak hunting tactics would be used here.
Bubblecamps would become effective at stopping most cloaked traffic.
A nulli T3, like an inty, could still evade some bubblecamps, but as a slower to align ship would be exposed far more than before.
They would be reduced in use as a result, to the point of becoming trivial as a presence.
Only an inty could slip by reliably. As a non-sustainable threat that can be broadcast over intel channels, inties rely on these channels not warning players in downstream systems.

So, the net effect would rely on the defending alliance screwing up by not placing bubbles with the cloak hunting tools, and / or not sustaining an intel channel to guard against the possible remaining threat from inties.

The safety level operating PvE within null sov would jump up, creating a need only to maintain shepherds at gate camps. Their little PvE sheep would then be safe from the bad bad wolves.
Anything cloaked, assuming it got past the gate camps somehow, could be cleared by simply seeing the new name in local, and hunting it down.

Remaining possible threat? Blobs.
Since they are numbingly easy to report in intel, they can be evaded just as easily. PvE assets become entrenched, with null players only risking ships by choice.

Would this be your version of balanced?

We could even unbind this new indicatior from d-scan range and allow it to light up if anywhere in the system somebody gone to 2nd mode. Attacker can benefit from it too - now victim can't even approximately tell how close he to her at any given moment, he can be anywhere in the system, or 10km from victim's location.

How about a grid-wide doomsday that asks your permission to blow you up, with a 60 second timer. Don't say "NO" in time, then you die.

How about a recalibration of your Sarcasmometer?

I agree there should not be tools in the game that make certain activities easy or easier! You are perfectly right there!

And where such tools exist in the game that make life simple and easy they should be changed so that the easy part is countered with a certain amount of hardship and risk, possible for other players to impose!

Such an existing area today in the game is AFK cloaking! THAT is so easy, my 5 year old son could handle it; he can start the client, hit the cloak-button and then play with his Lego the rest of the day, and thus performing a rather perfect AFK cloaing activity! HE could go on doing that for ever and ever and ever just like a gankbear (5-year olds like to repeat simple things as you know. "again!" "again!"). He is just brilliant, my 5 year old son, and could easily be one of the best AFK cloakers in this game (the competition is not so mature..haha...)!

I just can't find it in myself to admire these gankbears! What's to admire really? It's so simple it does not belong in EVE online!

The people who should be admired are those who use the more difficult ways of performing hotdrops - cloaky scouts to actively seek out their preys, they fly around using the DotLan or eq. map looking in the systems with the most ratting-activity, they "bomb-rush" systems to catch dazed and un-aligned ratters in belts, they log of in system in a hub waiting 30 minutes and then log on again trying to catch guys that don't pay attention to intel. They use spies to scout out ratters, and then log on their cyno-alt. They scout out transport routes and map their opponents work, and then place warp bubbles between the POS and the station to catch lazy freighter-pilots that are so rich they dont care anymore and never change their way of flying. Thes admireable hotdroppers are hard to catch, but if you try hard you can outsmart them. But it takes effort, skills, intelligence and time. And that's what makes it fun to hunt those guys!

But AFK cloaking is for 5 year olds. Simple has no place in EVE online! Gankbears have a too easy life!

You guys that oppose this suggestion, you are free to have your oppinions. But I sense there is no real substance behind your "arguments" other than you despice ratters and dislike a splendid term ("Gankbear") by trying to argu that it shifts blame (really Seraph! really!). Or you ridicule the suggestion by saying we should have a "system-wide doomsday" etc etc. These are all signs that you HAVE no real arguments, you squirm and troll your way around the suggestion that would require you to actually PLAY EVE Online and use intelligence while playing! I find that highly amusing, bring moar tears pls! Ratter-tears are beautiful, I love them! But hotdropper-tears are magnificient! I want them, also in-game pls!

If we are to have a more sound discussion; could you describe in what way AFK cloaking is essential for your hotdropping playstyle? Why could you not be succesful using the more "challenging" ways I gave some examples of above? I'm sure you can continue your hotdrops without AFK cloaking, it will only require a bit more wits because we will hunt you not only when you play intelligently, using the means Seraph described above, but also when you "play" EVE without actually playing EVE, the way a 5-year old could play EVE - when you AFK cloak.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers.

Your turn, gankbears. Sound arguments please. Or moar gankbear tears!

No, you have missunderstood me.

I want AFK cloakers to have a risk of losing their ship. I don't see any need to touch the existing ways cloaks work, as you describe that would disturb the balance. Only AFK cloakers*. Nothing else. If you are actively flying your cloaked ship around in system and between systems, my suggestion is that works as it does now. No changes needed. But AFK cloakers* that log on, cloak up, and then never touch their client for hours upon hours, until directly after next DT when they log on, cloak up and so on. Thats despicable, to easy, has no risk to it and should be changed by CCP so we can hunt them down and destroy them.

A F K C l o a k e r s , can't stress that enough! AFK.

Ok, while you did not say this directly, your response has indicated the key element of this issue is intel.

You want to know that the cloak equipped pilot is actually online and attentive. Not simply connected to the game while their name is still persisting in local chat.

I would go so far as to assume, that since you seem to be asking for this awareness, you also feel you are entitled to know.
(Not yanking on your chain, just pointing out a detail)

The problem with this tactic, is that PvE players use it in reverse, and your request would empower them in two ways.

1. Fake predator / Scarecrow.
I mentioned already, that it is a tactic usable by PvE players to fly a kite. If you knew that a hostile showing in system had to be active, you would at once either retreat or reship into a combat craft.
The real owner, your so-called buddy who is blue or green to you in a PvE ship, is claiming they know a detail that let's them avoid combat, or they are so good at fighting that they survive. They are isking up mining and ratting while you avoid the same to be safe. And depending on context, they can take your share of the ISK doing it.
(Limited spawns, or limited amount of high value asteroids)

2. The POS sitting PvE player waiting for local to clear.
I can't say how many times I have seen booster alts or others sitting in a POS, for hours or days on end.
These guys stay online, numbing hunters to their presence this way, and go active when it looks safe.
Unless a hunter actually sees them at a NPC spawn or roid field, they can easily assume they are parked as usual at the POS, and move on without delay.
Knowing a hunter had to be active, would mean that they had even more opportunities to stroll out than before, boosting the success and participation of this tactic.

I think there are many ways to make AFK cloakys possible to find, that would not let the hunter know if the AFK cloaky is AFK or not. Also naturally the cloaker should be able to see he/she is beeing searched for. Unless he/she is in fact AFK, that would be a bit weird.

As for the POS-sitting interdiction nullified belt- botter, like we have in Fountain, reported many times without CCP caring, I agree; they should be delt with and should have no benefits. There are obvious ways to handle that in a game design aswell.

Once again - the game needs a mechanism to allow players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers. Why should there exist a risk-free play style that allows people to hide safely wihtout playing actively for days and days, weeks and weeks? If you want to hunt ratters, even today you wont get the alert ones, you will get the lazy, inactive and unintelligent ratters, and the AFK ratters. Keep on killing them by all means! . You will have the same effect without AFK cloaking though. There is no need for AFK cloaking in the game. It promotes the same playstyle as the ratters use, it's despicable and those using it should have a risk of getting caught!

There are no doubt other mechanisms in EVE Online that would need an iteration or two, like safe-POSes etc. But the subject of this particular thread was cloaky gameplay, and I think AFK cloakers should not live risk-free! I want them to play actively, or stand a risk of loosing their ships.

So you yourself admit you want to shoot AFK pilots. And you are calling others gankbears? Look who is talking.