Assembly Hall

Just wanted to add my support to this issue; a tool/function that enables players to seek out and destroy afk cloakers in systems. The exact mechanics are not interesting, just that this way of playing EVE has a counter and that it has a risk attached to the award (of afk cloaky camping systems)

I disagree, it is not in balance. The reward is (as an example) denial of an enemy systems usage without any active playing. All you have to do is log on after DT, and then leave your computer for 23 hours until next DT. Rinse repeat, for days, weeks, months. Without any active playing or any risk of ever beeing caught. People can easily script that so they dont have to be at the compter to restart their clients (probably they do this, just look at how common it is that the AFK-cloakers log on just as the server goes up, even though it might be in the middle of the night or the middle f the work-day for some Tz:s!)

I like hunting for ratters and hotdropping them! Thats fun! I like counterdropping hotdroppers - even more fun! I like that playstyle! But I dislike the AFK playstyle of system denial and that there is no counter to it. Dont want counters to cloakers that are playing actively, no need for that!

It's the 24/7 AFK cloakers this game needs a counter to!

So I endorse the original post in this thread and lay my voice on the suggestion to add a counter to AFK cloakers.

Sir, English is not my native language and I had problems understandinging what you meant, I'm sorry! I do now.

I see your point here, that the hunted AFK cloaker, that quite possibly has been at his grandmother for a full 22:59 since last DT after having started up his AFK cloaky alt in a system, and thus not even is at home, should also have a means of detecting that he is beeing counter-hunted.

I can support that. Thats a good thing! Desireable that it requires the AFK player to be active to detect that he/she is beeing hunted, it should not be easily automated by outside scripts etc! If you log on, cloak and go AFK while at your grandmothers, there should be a threat to your ship. If you stay at grandmother (i.e. AFK) that threat should prevail, until you start playing actively again. Beeing with grandmother should be a bit uncomfortable - in strict EVE-terms ofc!

But absolutely, some kind of indication of the counter-hunt of the AFK cloaker would be fine, thats a good suggestion!
I don't see any need for hunting actively playing cloakers though, I only see a need to hunt AFK cloakers.

PPPFFFTTTTTT!!!!
Seraph it is not that simple, I wish it was.

However on to other things, looking at it from one element of the issue, threat projection.
With the changes in Isotope size and consumption, cost has gone high.
So far from my experience this has not slowed down the larger blops fleets nor the mainstream alliance hot drops.
However where I am I do not have the opportunity to measure the effect on solo and small gang hunters?
As this change had similar suggestions in the beginning of this thread, I hope that you Seraph, and Nikk give your insight on the effect of this change on the subject or threat projection as it applies to Cloaked pilots.

You do understand that would make all areas of space very similar to WH space. This gives an over atvantage to cloaked pilots, who then can go where ever when ever with no risk of being detected making rather impossible to catch them except when they first enter a system
(picture a shooting gallery where the cloaked pilot is the shooter and all PVE ships are the little balloons on the wall waiting to be popped)
Please understand I am not totally against this, if you give an equal opportunity to the other side to be able to detect/hunt/defend against this I would be ok. However my good friend Seraph only suggest removing local totally without a counter.

I've been thinking about this problem for a while, and one idea crossed my mind. Its beauty is in that it can to great extent preserve current functionality of main cloaking vessels, still giving a potential victim solid chance to evade cloacked hotdroppers - if said victim is vigilant enough.

The idea involves creating of 2 modes of operation for covert ops cloaking device.

The first mode is very similar to what we have now - you can freely warp around and use any propulsion or purely defensive modules which don't involve locking targets, but you can't initiate said locking until you stay in this mode, even if you already uncloaked and sensor recalibration timer went off (we could allow for locking environmental objects, though, to not disrupt such rescource gathering activities like exploration or mining). You can't either use any cynoshural field generators, even covert one, or any weapon system. In this mode you cannot be "scanned down" by any "cloaker busting" scan system this tread has came up with.

In the second mode it allows you to initiate locking the same way you could do it under current game rules (meaning, after uncloaking recalibration timer starts, and after it went off you can lock on your target; SBs and BLOPs don't need to wait for recalibration, though). You can also use both types of cynofield generators now. But in that mode your presence becomes obvious to all pilots in d-scan range (~14,4au) through new d-scan indicator "Cloaking vessel(s) detected in vicinity" (a humble orange lamp which lights up on pressing "Scan" button if some cloacker activated 2nd cloaking mode nearby will suffice). It won't say you neither distance to this cloaking vessel, nor direction (narrow beam and distance brute forcing techniques won't work here). It also won't give you a hint about numbers of those cloackers or their ship types. It just means that somewhere within 14,4 au somebody switched to 2nd cloaking mode.

Other consequency of switching to 2nd mode is that you become a subject to any kind of "cloaking vessel's scan mechanics" this thread has came up with. So if you decided to go from afking to proactive playing, you should expect your "victim" will try to find and get you. And it won't allow you to be indefinetly afk-cloaked and ready to hotdrop anyone anytime you want. - if you afking in 2nd mode, you are asking for free POD-jump to your clone station.

Transition from 1st to 2nd mode should take some meaningfull time, lets say, 1-3 minutes, and you will appear on d-scan the moment you initiated it, not the moment you completed it. It gives enough time to vigilant victim to see something strange on its d-scan and seek salvation while assailant is still in the middle of transition between those cloacking states.

Edited: but it will be even more intresting contest if "hunter" could get some method of checking is his "pray" diligently scans her surrounding, or not. Like some kind of radar system which registers any dscan attempts in dscan range (dscan probably implies active radar system, so it should radiate some energy that can be registered by other party, lore-wise). So you can wait for some oblivious victim in passive mode, just checking this "d-scan meter", or you can study her "d-scan pressing patterns" and find some holes in them, in which you could switch to active mode and get her.
This new feature could be made available only to "inherently cloaking" vessels (and mb even only when they are actually cloacked), like covops, recons etc. So hunter can register each victim's dscan attempt, but victim - can't.

The facts are such that world of Eve offers only one solid source of ingame currency - PvE, ratting, to be exact (you won't get isks from mining roids or from relic sites). It is where all isks come from. In current age of SRP many stoped thinking about where all those ships they spoon fed with are coming from and from which source come isks to buy them. The answer is PvE. Even if no one in your alliance do it, it just means someone somewhere just did it for you. He bought tools to do that from some industry corp, paying them with isks he got from bounties and sleeper loot. And those industrial corp bought moongoo from your CEO with that currency, which allowed him to buy ships for SRP to work.
Sorry to chewing it down like that, many seems fail to understand this trivia.

I think with current afk cloacking mechanics it's too easy for predator to do its job. This one I just can't get, btw. Just look how negative are reactions of hArDcOre part of the playerbase to any other afk activitiy - afk mining, afk-hauling.. afk bonus seeding, afk carrier ratting But when it comes to afk cloaking - BLAMS! DONT YOU DARE EVER AGAIN!!1

Smells like hypocricy for me. Or just egocentrism/infantilism dunno.

If you want to be a proud predator - than be it. Be active and ready to bite,atk. Or to protect yourself if you "victim" will dare to come to your burrow. If you want to hide in some dark coner in total security - than you should get rid of those claws, you don't need them, at least for the moment.

Again "AFK cloaking" is a symptom of local. Because when you show up, people dock up in or warp to a pos. So they sit there and wait until you don't care about local anymore. That's the only reason. Nobody "AFK cloaks" wormholes. People pop in, look for targets and hunt. In effect you cannot hunt in K-space because of local.

I hardly ever rat either, and when I do it's to lure hotdoppers to drop me so we can counter-drop them. I'm not so full of myself (like others are in this thread) that I look down on those that DO rat! Let them play EVE the way they want, and let us others play the way we want!

I want to open up a possibility for player to counter AFK cloakers! Not because I want to rat freely, but because I like to outsmart the hunters, and I want their fancy ships in killmails! If they are so stupid they leave the computer, they should have a threat on them!

I admire thos who hunt actively, thats a real sport! But AFK cloaking for weeks to make ratters careless is not to be admired at all, thats just to simple and no sport at all. Gank-bears - thats a brlliant term! They risk nothing, it requires no skills and no intelligence, just some extra accounts of neutral alts that can light a cyno, cloak and use a scram.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK Cloakers. Period.