Assembly Hall

TLDR: There is an opportunity to increase interaction between PVE and cloaked ships. There is an opportunity to increase active play vrs. AFK play. Covert cloaks needs a balanced.

This post has been edited to better reflect the subject matter and the discussion on the following thread.

Subject - interaction with cloaked pilots vrs PVE.

Issue –
Once a pilot is able to get into a system and cloak up there is no current in game mechanic to interact with that pilot as long as he remains cloaked.
There is no in game or out of game mechanic to know if the pilot is afk or at keyboard
There is no in game mechanic to know if the cloaked pilot has a cyno or not.
There is no in game mechanic to properly assess the threat of force projection from the cloaked pilot.
The pilot if they so choose can stay cloaked from down time to down time.

Scope of this thread
(1) - No change that would (nerf) cloak - I like them and use them.
(2) - If someone is actively cloaked camping it is a non issue - The ability to hunt them would be more challenging.
(3) - If someone is long term cloaking there is no mechanic to know if afk or not. This present and unreasonable threat of force projection
(4) - Cloaked vessels should have a mechanic that can be use the hunt them
(5) – current Intel mechanics (Local chat) does not give a proper representation of local Intel. A new system is needed.

This thread is not intended to cover those who log off in a system.

There is only a small window of time to catch the cloaked pilot. This is unreasonable for most pilots, even the most diligent and prepared ones cannot interact with a cloaked pilot unless said pilot wants to. This needs balance.
The current mechanics allows the cloaky camper to abuse it in a way where the cost to effect if out of balance
With current mechanics there is no way one or many pilots can find and interact with the cloaked pilot.
This threat of force projection encourages non active play.

We should have a mechanic that allows in active pilots or those with Cynos attached to be interacted with.
There are many arguments about pvp vrs cloaked. That is not the in the scope of this thread. PVE vrs Cloaked is.
If there was a reduction in threat projection.
If PVE ships and cloaky ships were presented a reasonable chance of success in combat without hot dropping this would increase interaction.

After much In game discussion and on this thread we have the following as best solutions.

1. Cloak and cyno fitted together give a limit to time ship can stay cloaked or make it scannable.
Keep in mind we already have and are getting new ships that will be cloaky and combat capable and will by pass this one.

(con) If you make cloaked ships detectable, without first requiring effort to become aware of initial presence, you really do trivialize cloaks.
It might as well be a regular PvP ship, or simply on a timer.
Knowing the cloaked ship is not being ejected or scannable, also makes it a known quantity for not having a cyno.


2. Scan probe that can scan down cloaked objects.
This can have a large deviation factor whereas a pilot is active he can escape before getting landed on.

(con)Cloaked vessels would gain a new weakness, in exchange for no benefit.

3. Ships fitted with cloak will be unable to fit a cyno – Covert cynos would be ok

(con)This makes system jammers redundant, since they create much of the same effect. Really messes with legitimate capital transport too.

4. Allow cloaked vessels the ability to passively target and cargo/ship scan

(con) This might affect things a small degree outside sov null, where they are not NBSI and don't run the moment a strange name appears. In sov null, the only ships to be scanned would be the PvP ships trying to kill the intruder.

(from Nikk Narrell) and I agree
[I would suggest something that increases chances for encounters.
The only realistic approach, is to give incentive for the evasive players to stand and fight.
Unfortunately, the 4 ideas listed above don't do this. 1 and 2 make them easier to avoid, while 3 kills cyno jammers.
4 is likely to make high sec more dangerous, possibly low and NPC null, while sov null would not significantly be changed.]

"NEW"
5. If a contact is in your contacts list it should have a tag in local if that pilot is afk or not, this is regardless of pilots location and would have different indicators depending on location. In space would change once warp was initiated. In station - im open on this one.

In summary :
We should have the Ability to hunt cloaked ships. Even more so if they are not active.
If you do not like any of the suggestions made. Please give a viable suggestion for a mechanic that allows pilots to hunt and or interact with a cloaked vessel once established in a system.

Fair questions.
If in Null or low sec, ratting or mining, they are denying you (if you are smart) play time as you should not be out and about due to the possibility of getting Dropped on. by either caps or blops.
Second. invisible spies are bad enough but you should be able to defend against known Spies or recon ( cloaky camper) who is gathering intel or as I put it. denying you space by his mere presence.
I hope that helps elaborate a bit.

This contradicts your claim as they are AFK and out of the house. You can not hot drop from Taco Bell. You can but that is usually after...alone in your misery, gripping porcelain.




The only space he is denying is the space between your ears. Straight up, it is another form pvp.

Get creative, slip a covert cyno on your jewboat, go to the next system, rat as you would, have friends waiting, drop cyno and trousers, :fap: :fap: watching your buddies kill your little cloaky nemesis and friends.

Done...next?!

Everyone has some value to their answer as to be "sensible" to the comment or question.

However it is not up to some self appointed person or persons to discern what is sensible or not.

It is not complicated really at all, here is the deal, the cloaky as it is cloaked can not pew pew. We all know that.

We can not discern what the intentions are of the "cloaky". Who know may have a man crush on someone in the system.

We can not tell whether or not the person is in fact behind the key board.

If you want the ability to kill a claoky, that can not attack in it's cloaked state, then you have to give the cloaky the ability to attack in it's cloaked state.

then when you pop said cloaky due to being AFK..whelp then they were AFK.

If they are not AFK, then you will find out in a hurry.

this satisfies you need to know if they are AFK or not, ability to hunt them down, and the prospect of said afk cloaker pushing your **** in when they are in deed behind the keyboard.

Or people to police others on the forums, and you live up to your alliance name, lol.

What?

So after reading your wall of text, I shall refer you to the first line where it says:

"Working as intended".

go back to sleep and stay on your porch, you have not even the fundamental understanding of the argument here.

The other side already HAVE the same privilege. Put your AFK cloaker alt in their ratting systems.

Or go somewhere else

Or rat in groups

Or rat in cheap ships