These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Question for CCP - Is this RMT officially allowed?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1 - 2013-09-27 14:59:52 UTC
Hi CCP
With the recent news of the collaboration between CCP and Somer blink, a lot of people have been throwing around a lot of questions to which they have received no answer. One question stands though that I feel needs an official response.

Somer blink offers isk incentives for buying GTCs though them, which in turn pays them a referral fee. This offering of ISK is no different from any other form of RMT. By giving you their isk they earn money, it's pretty much that simple. It converts Somer's isk to cash.

So the questions are:
1. Is this allowed?
2. If so, why is this allowed?
3. If any other entity wanted to pay people isk to buy GTCs through their referral, would they be banned (so specifically, is Somer receiving special treatment)?
4. Why does this form of income not go against section 2A of the EULA (which states accounts can't be run for business or profit)?

Thanks

Lucas

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Matthew97
#2 - 2013-09-27 15:06:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Hi CCP
With the recent news of the collaboration between CCP and Somer blink, a lot of people have been throwing around a lot of questions to which they have received no answer. One question stands though that I feel needs an official response.

Somer blink offers isk incentives for buying GTCs though them, which in turn pays them a referral fee. This offering of ISK is no different from any other form of RMT. By giving you their isk they earn money, it's pretty much that simple. It converts Somer's isk to cash.

So the questions are:
1. Is this allowed?
2. If so, why is this allowed?
3. If any other entity wanted to pay people isk to buy GTCs through their referral, would they be banned (so specifically, is Somer receiving special treatment)?
4. Why does this form of income not go against section 2A of the EULA (which states accounts can't be run for business or profit)?

Thanks

Lucas


If I understand correctly, SOMER don't actually get any of your $$$ as you buy it from one of the suppliers they have this deal with (Markee Dragon for example) and then the supplier pays the referral fee (so technically its not you its them if that makes sense?)

Also seeing as you don't receive ISK from the purchase (just blink credit) but receive ISK from cashing out any possible winnings then its slightly the in the grey area really.

With regards to question 4, its also a grey area, wouldn't this apply to all the EOH * characters as well etc?
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#3 - 2013-09-27 15:08:10 UTC
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Cavalira
Habemus
#4 - 2013-09-27 15:09:26 UTC
Let's imagine CCP did give Somer Blink some ships, despite knowing that they RMT. It wouldn't actually mean RMT is legal.

You could compare it to funding terrorism vs doing the terrorism.
Anton Menges Saddat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-27 15:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Anton Menges Saddat
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.

the blink credit is generated through a referral scheme which uses real money, the credit can be used to win a lottery which can then be converted into either isk or an item, so i see where he's coming from
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#6 - 2013-09-27 15:12:56 UTC
noob
Prince Kobol
#7 - 2013-09-27 15:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lucas Kell wrote:
Hi CCP
With the recent news of the collaboration between CCP and Somer blink, a lot of people have been throwing around a lot of questions to which they have received no answer. One question stands though that I feel needs an official response.

Somer blink offers isk incentives for buying GTCs though them, which in turn pays them a referral fee. This offering of ISK is no different from any other form of RMT. By giving you their isk they earn money, it's pretty much that simple. It converts Somer's isk to cash.

So the questions are:
1. Is this allowed?
2. If so, why is this allowed?
3. If any other entity wanted to pay people isk to buy GTCs through their referral, would they be banned (so specifically, is Somer receiving special treatment)?
4. Why does this form of income not go against section 2A of the EULA (which states accounts can't be run for business or profit)?

Thanks

Lucas


Jesus what is going on here.. that is 2 posts Lucas has made that I agree with !!!!

(Just kidding, I like debating with peeps like Lucas, he always puts out intelligent posts which is a rarity these days on this forum)

Some clarification on this would be nice.

If Somerblink can offer isk for Plex referrals (not that this is bad as I have used this a number of times) then I will presume anybody can?

For example say I knocked up a website with links to different places where people could buy isk legitimately, and then offered people isk to use my website to buy said plex which in turn I received payment from the various companies would this be allowed?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#8 - 2013-09-27 15:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Matthew97 wrote:
If I understand correctly, SOMER don't actually get any of your $$$ as you buy it from one of the suppliers they have this deal with (Markee Dragon for example) and then the supplier pays the referral fee (so technically its not you its them if that makes sense?)
That's a technicality. That means any RMT would be legal as long as you run the isk through a third party. So that would mean any RMT run though paypal would be legal, since they pay paypal, then paypal takes their cash for their transaction fee and transfers you the rest.

Matthew97 wrote:
With regards to question 4, its also a grey area, wouldn't this apply to all the EOH * characters as well etc?
If they are running it as an out of game business, yes it would. If it's simply a website for an in-game business it would probably be OK.

Elizabeth Norn wrote:
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.
Blink credits are the equivalent of isk, you are just forced to gamble with them. Either way ~80% of the isk you receive will go to players on prizes.
So you buy a GTC, Somer gets their cut (let's say for example they get $2). Somer then gives you 250m credit. Of that credit, they give 200m to players and take 50m back in their cut (since payout is around 80% of the blink value on a regular blink).
This means they have sold 200m isk for $2.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#9 - 2013-09-27 15:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Cavalira wrote:
Let's imagine CCP did give Somer Blink some ships, despite knowing that they RMT. It wouldn't actually mean RMT is legal.

You could compare it to funding terrorism vs doing the terrorism.
To me it seems like RMT, so ignoring the fact that they give them ships, the fact that they are allowed to run in itself is showing a tolerance for RMT, and that they get special treatment. I'm not judging on it and I'm not threatening to ragequit, I simply want CCP to let us know their official position on the matter.

EDIT: And funding terrorism is bad too, just now realising you may have meant it that way :D (I''m slow today).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#10 - 2013-09-27 15:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.


1. Visit Somerblink
2. Click on Referral Link to Markee Dragon (Usedto be Shattered Crystal)
3. Purchase Isk
4. 250mil isk is automatically transferred to your blink account
5. Somerblink receive a payment for you purchasing isk from Markee Dragon

This could be RMT could be debated however I would say yes as isk is being used to generate real life money.

In another thread I did accuse Lucas of saying CCP endorses RMT as he accused Somerblink of RMT.

I disagreed with him for the reasons he gave and I still do in that regards.

However he has throw somewhat of a curve ball here as I do believe this is can be a class of RMT.
Othran
Route One
#11 - 2013-09-27 15:20:53 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
If Somerblink can offer isk for Plex referrals


Companies (Shattered Crystal in the past) offered RL money for referrals on GTCs, half the corps in Eve probably had an account with them. GTC = 2 PLEX mmm?

All of a sudden getting isk rather than RL money for a referral is bad?

Heh good luck with that argument.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#12 - 2013-09-27 15:25:01 UTC
Othran wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
If Somerblink can offer isk for Plex referrals


Companies (Shattered Crystal in the past) offered RL money for referrals on GTCs, half the corps in Eve probably had an account with them. GTC = 2 PLEX mmm?

All of a sudden getting isk rather than RL money for a referral is bad?

Heh good luck with that argument.
That's not whats happening though. Somer are paying ISK to encourage people to use their referral, for which they get paid real money. If you look at what is going where, the player pays money and receive isk (equivalent blink credit - see above) while Somer pays isk and receives money. This is RMT.

An out of game company offering you and out of game incentive to use their service is not RMT, it's simply a marketing tactic. The problem stems from the fact that in game currency is being used as the payment for the referral.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-09-27 15:25:50 UTC
I continue saying we ask the wrong questions. But whatever... Lol
Prince Kobol
#14 - 2013-09-27 15:26:13 UTC
Othran wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
If Somerblink can offer isk for Plex referrals


Companies (Shattered Crystal in the past) offered RL money for referrals on GTCs, half the corps in Eve probably had an account with them. GTC = 2 PLEX mmm?

All of a sudden getting isk rather than RL money for a referral is bad?

Heh good luck with that argument.


True, but they never gave isk out, that is the crux of the problem.

As I said, there is nothing stopping you setting up a website with links to every reputable company who is selling plex legally and setting up a referral scheme and then offering isk to each player who uses your site to purchase isk.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2013-09-27 15:26:55 UTC
It's not RMT.
It's RM-for-non-game-non-ISK-tickets-to-be-part-of-a-draw-for-non-guaranteed-rewards.

No in-game items are exchanged for out-of-game services or goods.
Othran
Route One
#16 - 2013-09-27 15:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Tippia wrote:
No in-game items are exchanged for out-of-game services or goods.


Which of course has never been true as the myriad forum hosting for ISK services attest to. Ditto voice servers and all sorts of other stuff :)

Edit - quoting out of context I know but CCP have hardly been consistent on this over the years.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#17 - 2013-09-27 15:32:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It's not RMT.
It's RM-for-non-game-non-ISK-tickets-to-be-part-of-a-draw-for-non-guaranteed-rewards.

No in-game items are exchanged for out-of-game services or goods.
See my above posts.
80% of the value of your blink credits WILL go to players (as long as Somer pay out). So blink credits are the equivalent of isk, but randomness decides which player gets the isk in the end. They are still paying their isk to someone, and receiving cash in return.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-09-27 15:33:36 UTC
Othran wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
If Somerblink can offer isk for Plex referrals


Companies (Shattered Crystal in the past) offered RL money for referrals on GTCs, half the corps in Eve probably had an account with them. GTC = 2 PLEX mmm?

All of a sudden getting isk rather than RL money for a referral is bad?

Heh good luck with that argument.

Getting a kickback for selling stuff out of game isn't an issue, that's just advertising. It's Blink offering in-game advantages to encourage people to buy through their referral link rather than go elsewhere that's potentially an issue. If anyone is allowed to offer isk or scrip which is easily converted into isk for RL money then I'll start the bidding at one shiny Megathron token for each GTC purchased through www.dorisdents.com
Matthew97
#19 - 2013-09-27 15:42:23 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:

Getting a kickback for selling stuff out of game isn't an issue, that's just advertising. It's Blink offering in-game advantages to encourage people to buy through their referral link rather than go elsewhere that's potentially an issue. If anyone is allowed to offer isk or scrip which is easily converted into isk for RL money then I'll start the bidding at one shiny Megathron token for each GTC purchased through www.dorisdents.com


I fully endorse this product and/or service.
Xaen
Telepathic Death Mimes
#20 - 2013-09-27 16:11:07 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
[quote=Matthew97]Blink credits are the equivalent of isk, you are just forced to gamble with them.


You used the word equivalence. I don't think that word means what you think it means. If they are the equivalent of ISK, then you cannot be forced to gamble with them.

e·quiv·a·lence

iˈkwivələns/

noun

1. the condition of being equal or equivalent in value, worth, function, etc.

I get shouty crackers a lot. Deal with it.
123Next pageLast page