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Pirate faction Missile Battleship
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XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#21 - 2013-09-27 15:59:00 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
[quote=Archa4 Badasaz] Therefore, the one we need is Amarr/Caldari.


You mean Sansha?

Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#22 - 2013-09-27 16:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: XvXTeacherVxV
Only missing gap left is Caldari/Minmatar, if I were CCP I'd make it a Thukker set of ships since they're trying to stick with existing factions.

I'd like to see something more interesting done with them than just missile and shield bonuses, like the role bonuses they're giving the SOE eve ships (cov ops cloak, hacking/analyzing etc). Since they're giving the SOE ships cloaks, why not give this line a role bonus like warping through interdiction bubbles?

Role: Null-Sec Skirmisher

Role Bonus: Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Role Bonus: 25% bonus to target painter effectiveness

Caldari - 10% to Missile Damage per level
Minmatar - 10% to shield booster effectiveness per level

Names and Sizes - A "pirate" destroyer and battlecruiser would make a lot of folks out there very happy campers. And it would also keep them from totally stepping on the toes of the new interceptors.

Dervish - Destroyer
Bushwhacker - Battlecruiser
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#23 - 2013-10-15 20:58:03 UTC
I am greatly in favor of a line of Caldari/Minmatar Pirate ships, especially the BS being a way to improve on the Navy Raven. And it should definitely be a shield tank. If they continue with pirate faction ships then I wouldn't mind seeing an armor tanked missile ship at a later time, but armor and missiles are 2 separate skill tracks for most pilots which is a pattern the other pirate ships don't follow.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-10-15 22:10:00 UTC
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#25 - 2013-10-15 22:37:53 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2013-10-15 22:40:34 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?



What is a Rattlesnake? Or are you one of those 'Launchers and missile bonuses don't make a ship into a missile user!!1' people?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#27 - 2013-10-15 22:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Danika Princip wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?



What is a Rattlesnake? Or are you one of those 'Launchers and missile bonuses don't make a ship into a missile user!!1' people?

The Rattlesnake is a drone boat with missiles as an afterthought.
The Machariel is quite arguably an artillery boat, and notice it doesn't need drone skills to show off just how much it's good at artillery.
The Nightmare is a laser boat, but it doesn't have any drone skills either.
So, the Rattlesnake fits 4 launchers, gets a couple missile bonuses and a huge drone bay and drone bonuses but it still qualifies as the pirate ship that we're asking for?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#28 - 2013-10-15 22:55:06 UTC
Too bad the Pirate battleships are getting the 'ol nerf bat.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#29 - 2013-10-15 23:21:52 UTC
CCP, dont realy like missiles as they cause lag, that's why they meta game you into using guns by nerfing missiles and making sure guns outperform them on all levels so I wouldn't hold your breath...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-10-16 08:00:39 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?


Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven.

I said faction, not pirate faction. The difference between pirate faction and navy faction is basically semantics and RP, neither of which actually matters. If you're unhappy with the CN ships, ask for them to be balanced rather than leaving them broken while demanding a new line of ships that would just obsolete them.
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#31 - 2013-10-16 08:16:21 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?


Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven.

I said faction, not pirate faction. The difference between pirate faction and navy faction is basically semantics and RP, neither of which actually matters. If you're unhappy with the CN ships, ask for them to be balanced rather than leaving them broken while demanding a new line of ships that would just obsolete them.


I'm sorry but did you even read the first post in the thread?

There are navy BS for every faction and for every type of guns, but there is no pirate faction ship aimed at missiles (Try using Rattlesnake with missiles and without drones - and you are dead).
Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven and Navy Drake are not Pirate BS, not even close.
Luscius Uta
#32 - 2013-10-16 08:44:38 UTC
The problem with adding a pirate missile battleship designed for PvE is that it wouldn't add anything we haven't seen on other similar ships.
Let's take a look at all the bonuses that would be worthwhile for a lvl4 mission running, missile-based ship:

-Missile damage
-Missile velocity or flight time
-Missile explosion velocity
-Bonus to Target painters
-Shield boost amount
-Shield resistances

They were all seen on CNR, Golem or Navy Scorp, and recycling is bad.

Also, if you want to go armour, may I present you a Typhoon.
So the only worthwhile idea for your ship I can think of is to be something that relates to Golem in similar way that Vindicator relates to Kronos, meaning a lot less tank, better DPS and a lot faster to train for.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#33 - 2013-10-16 10:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
There is a rumour the Gila is changing, see CCP posts in the SoE thread. Concerns were raised the SoE Pirate Cruiser would step on the Gila's toes, and a mention was made that the Gila is probably changing to something else. Which hints that that entire line has a chance at least on becoming the Pirate Missile ships you have been clamouring for for ages.
---
Also hints that the Pirate ships are already starting a balance pass as well of course, and suggests they might be the Rubicon 1.1 release.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-10-16 10:27:37 UTC
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?


Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven.

I said faction, not pirate faction. The difference between pirate faction and navy faction is basically semantics and RP, neither of which actually matters. If you're unhappy with the CN ships, ask for them to be balanced rather than leaving them broken while demanding a new line of ships that would just obsolete them.


I'm sorry but did you even read the first post in the thread?

There are navy BS for every faction and for every type of guns, but there is no pirate faction ship aimed at missiles (Try using Rattlesnake with missiles and without drones - and you are dead).
Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven and Navy Drake are not Pirate BS, not even close.


Of course I read it. It doesn't matter that they're not pirate BS. Introducing a pirate shield missile BS line superior in PVE to the CN ships would leave the Navy ships obsolete and unused. It's entirely pointless.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-10-16 10:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Gypsio III wrote:

Of course I read it. It doesn't matter that they're not pirate BS. Introducing a pirate shield missile BS line superior in PVE to the CN ships would leave the Navy ships obsolete and unused. It's entirely pointless.



This. CCP tried this before. AF"s were basically trash we asked to fix them, they gave us......dramiel. Yay, several reasons AF's sucked got +1 reason to not fly.


Why I will ask these people....what exactly is "broken" on either golem, SNI, or CNR to need this in the first place?

Each has their own thing and does it well. I am sensing new ship because it cool. So tell me how am I wrong. Because nothing is better than CNR is not an argument. CNR is a good ship. Golem is too however. I have read most of the Golem vs CNR debates and to me when they break down to eft calculations to show the value of paint over CNR bonuses....well liars figure and figures lie.

Now as a flip side , I can see why vindi exists for example. Something was lacking in the gun based gallente bs lineup for a while. kronos is hated (atm, nov may change) more than liked, navy mega had its moment of greatness....and not so greatness. Vindi filled in a gap.

Also worth noting it completes the circle of fail. Did not fix kronos for years, navy mega only got a redo recently (I like its changes, they grew on me). Combine these ships neglected for years and the rise of vindi dominance kind of a no crapper really.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#36 - 2013-10-16 14:57:27 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
There's already a perfectly good line of shield-tanked faction missile ships. We don't need another.

Like what? Where is there a pirate faction missile BS?


Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven.

I said faction, not pirate faction. The difference between pirate faction and navy faction is basically semantics and RP, neither of which actually matters. If you're unhappy with the CN ships, ask for them to be balanced rather than leaving them broken while demanding a new line of ships that would just obsolete them.


I'm sorry but did you even read the first post in the thread?

There are navy BS for every faction and for every type of guns, but there is no pirate faction ship aimed at missiles (Try using Rattlesnake with missiles and without drones - and you are dead).
Navy Hookbill, Navy Caracal, Navy Raven and Navy Drake are not Pirate BS, not even close.


Of course I read it. It doesn't matter that they're not pirate BS. Introducing a pirate shield missile BS line superior in PVE to the CN ships would leave the Navy ships obsolete and unused. It's entirely pointless.

Missile ships have the Navy line so we should just be happy with that while turrets keep getting more ships?
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#37 - 2013-10-16 16:23:08 UTC
Must be based on rokh, would launch like a nuclear sub :D
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-10-16 16:37:04 UTC
Well being as SOE is getting faction ships, perhaps they'll do another faction like this one.

Mordu's Legion comes to mind. They're a missile based faction.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#39 - 2013-10-16 16:37:37 UTC
To summarize the 1st post:

"I want a whole line of same sized ships that use the exact same weapon type and are good at the exact same thing, while still being different"

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#40 - 2013-10-16 17:19:51 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
To summarize the 1st post:

"I want a whole line of same sized ships that use the exact same weapon type and are good at the exact same thing, while still being different"



I think it sucks that currently all missile battleships are "stuck" at the same theoretical DPS limit. Which if what I heard is true, and the game is balanced at the tech II level means 888DPS. that's 4 tech II damage mods, and tech II CM launchers using the "Fury" tech II missiles with all skills V.

Every Pirate BS hull in the game can exceed that number rather easily.

If you go "all out" with faction mods and +6% HWs you get 1066DPS. And that can still be exceeded by every Pirate hull BS in the game, although it's harder with the Bhaalgorn.

What I am interested to know is, how exactly does CCP figure "max" DPS, and why did CCP settle on the 888 and/or 1066 DPS maximum we have now if they don't intend to release a pirate hull with more later?

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