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[Suggestion] Make Deep Space Transports into a battleship hull
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-27 02:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I'd like to see deep space transports made into a battleship class hull, and blockade runners into a frigate class hull. This would entail changing their rig size and mass/signature radius values. The blockade runner already has a high agility and small signature radius, but if its sig radius were lowered, its HP could be lowered accordingly, and its align time could be left the same. It would just make it feel more like a small ship without buffing it much (would buff it a bit though).

But making the DST battleship-class would open up a lot of development options. For one, it would make a lot more sense to greatly increase its HP, powergrid, and also increase its slot layout and cargo space significantly. If it was big and slow, then it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it had 100k+ EHP and/or 75k+ m3 space. This wouldn't lend it to being a solo flier in nullsec but would allow it to perform the role of armored transport while carrying enough cargo to be worth escorting it with a small fleet. It would also give it an excuse to be able to fit a MJD.

Consider this layout for the Mastodon:
3 high slots, 4 medium slots, 5 low slots
base HP x2
sig radius 300m, max velocity 75m/s, base align time unchanged

CPU: 280 (added 30 per new slot), 350 w/ Electronics V
Powergrid: 2150 (x10), 2687.5 w/ Engineering V

base cargo 15,750m3/19,687.5m3 (x3), max cargo with tech 1 cargo rigs: 87,727.79m3
cargo with only tech 1 cargo rigs: 26,036.72m3 // cargo with t1 rigs and 2 cargo modules: 42,325.94m3

HPs: (base / max at skills V)
shield: 6188 / 9668
armor: 5626 / 7032
structure: 6750 / 8438

scenario w/ all relevant skills at V:
1600mm Armor Plate II
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive I

Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Vampire II

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
- - - - -
Effective Hit Points (EVE Fitting Tool value): 117,108
Effective Hit Points (ship equip screen value): 89,633
cap stable

Cargohold: 26,036.72 m3

I apologize if any of my maths are wrong.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2 - 2013-09-27 03:03:42 UTC
You don't fly either of those, do you?

Escort fleets are noticed and the slower aline time ruins it without a MWD cloak setup.
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#3 - 2013-09-27 03:11:18 UTC
If your alliance doesn't laugh you out of the station when you request an escort 30k m3 of cargo, they have too much spare time.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-09-27 03:12:00 UTC
An escort fleet doesn't have to be a fat red flag. It can be a combat fleet that just happens to be headed in the right direction anyway, and the industrial pilot can be willing to hang with them for longer. Might need to increase the agility, yes. Its giant battleship engines should be able to turn even with a nice full cargohold I think, no? And if a fight happens and the DST gets targeted, it may die but it also buys the other fleet members time. It doesn't have to be carrying expensive stuff, just supplies for living in nullsec or lowsec. The biggest loss should be the hull itself.

I'm not suggesting making this easy, but I think something like this would make it viable. You'd just have to plan your trips to coincide with fleet ops going near or in highsec. It's basically getting a little more out of your fleet--ie. patrol AND supply run.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2013-09-27 03:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
You can already get some pretty ridiculous tanks on Deep Space Transports.

[Impel, Reasonable Heavy Transport]

[Lows]
Damage Control II
Thermic Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Reactor Control Unit II
Inertia Stabilizers II

[Mids]
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

[Highs]
Improved Cloaking Device II

[Rigs]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Stats (with all level 5 skills):
- around 82k ehp (over 115k with LG Slaves)
- lowest resistance is EM @ ~73%
- fully aligns in 15 seconds
- burns @ ~530 m/sec
- can hold about 5000 m3 of stuff

AND....

[Occator, Reasonable Heavy Transport]

[Lows]
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Reactor Control Unit II

[Mids]
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I

[Highs]
Improved Cloaking Device II

[Rigs]
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Stats (with all level 5 skills):
- around 74k ehp (over 100k with LG Slaves)
- lowest resistance is Explosive @ ~69%
- fully aligns in 19.5 seconds
- burns @ ~620 m/sec
- can hold about 6250 m3 of stuff



I'll agree that DST need to have their cargohold buffed a bit... but making them able to tank more isn't going to make them viable for "caravaning"... at least... not while Jump Freighters and Blockade Runners exist. Both of those ships rely on not being put in danger in the first place... which works FAR better in practice than simply "MOAR TANK!!"

How did you Veterans start?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-27 04:04:40 UTC
I think if their tank is buffed significantly enough, they will be worth taking out in a fleet. They just need to be as tough as or tougher than the ships with them, making them either a bad target, a good bait, or both. That way they are less detrimental to the fleet they are flying with, providing their transport capabilities a smaller hurdle to get past to become viable.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Devon Weeks
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-09-27 04:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Devon Weeks
You're hitting on something haulers have wanted for a long time, an intermediate step for hauling between the DST and freighter that isn't a mining support ship (Orca). Conceptually, I agree it would be extremely useful. But, I'm not really sure DSTs need an HP buff. They are pretty stout as it is, as alread laid out. Making blockade runners a frigate hull makes sense to a certain degree. With cargo not going much over 10k m3 fully expanded, there isn't much reason for the ship to be as large as it is, even if it is low sig and fast aligning. But, there's also no really compelling reason to change it since it works as it is.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-09-27 04:22:01 UTC
one reason to change it is to dramatically increase the market for large and small cargohold rigs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-10-05 08:37:12 UTC
bump

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-10-05 18:54:30 UTC
Would they require frigate and battleship skills to fly?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#11 - 2013-10-05 19:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Escort fleets don't really work most of the time in Eve - unless your a big bloc moving a sizeable fleet.

Last time I saw one this happened: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10769792

They had a roughly 10 man megathron fleet + 2 scorps + misc escorting 2 orcas into lowsec, we had eyes on them before they'd left highsec and by the time they were 2 jumps into low atleast 2 pirate corps had scouted them. They ended up sacrificing one orca to get the rest of the fleet and the other orca out. From my experience something along these kind of lines is usually what happens when people are misguided enough to try and escort industry stuff in eve.

EDIT: That said I'm not going to put you off trying to escort slow moving haulers through risky space :D
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-07 06:24:49 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Would they require frigate and battleship skills to fly?

Frigate and battleship skills are for combat hulls. These would only require industrial skills. They aren't frigates and battleships, but are that size.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."