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EVE Online: Rubicon Discussion

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Author
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#361 - 2013-10-02 11:30:38 UTC
Little Princess Potter wrote:
Does anyone know if the new Siphon units are for high sec? If so how are they to be destroyed? Will it be possible to destroy one without wardec the other corp?


The direction Eve is taking is quite disturbing for sure. As a high sec care bear, I have no interest in pvp and being pushed in that direction is not that pleasing to me.

In my donut shop I offer several different varieties for customers, not just making them buy a plain donut. The reason I like Eve is because there are so many ways to play the game and there is no "right or wrong way". With CCP trying to drive us to a pvp based game it's like they are offering only one kind of donut and alienating at least half of their customers. Pretty stupid if you ask me!

And for all those players that love griefing care bears, what will you do when there are no more care bears to grief and all you have to find is real pvp? I bet the game will be less fun for you too. :)

Cheers
LPP



You are not being forced into PVP. You are forced into interacting with other players. Be by paying mercenaries, or changing your activities or by going into PVP.

And nope we would LOVE if people fought back. If everyone started fighting back we would have far more fun.


THis is not a game that you can play without interact with other players.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Thorin79 Lasanari
NEXT FRONTIER INITIATIVE
#362 - 2013-10-02 13:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorin79 Lasanari
Quote:
Kagura Nikon wrote
"THis is not a game that you can play without interact with other players".

I don't agree with this. Interaction? Yes. But question is how? In EVE exists 3 zones of security. For what purpose developers want to change to interaction in High sec? High sec must stay zone for trade, economy operations and mining on certain safety. If player want to PVP he can play in Low and Null sec. And for High sec don't need some elements of war like low and null sec. What freedom of player if the rules can change, and we can get war in High sec? Then we can get real chaos in interaction in High sec. This can not be for good. When say EVE-PVP game, we can say- not ONLY PVP. So I don't understand the purpose of developers. New ships, structures, stuffs - really good idea. The change of balance of game- can not good idea.

If we want to see the light we stay in shadow. If we want to see the shadow we stay in light.

Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#363 - 2013-10-02 13:54:45 UTC
I really wish the new ships used an offense/defense combo that wasn't so prevalent. Shield/lasers would have been nice. That combo works very well for extended stays in WHs as well.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#364 - 2013-10-02 14:29:34 UTC
Thorin79 Lasanari wrote:
Quote:
Kagura Nikon wrote
"THis is not a game that you can play without interact with other players".

I don't agree with this. Interaction? Yes. But question is how? In EVE exists 3 zones of security. For what purpose developers want to change to interaction in High sec? High sec must stay zone for trade, economy operations and mining on certain safety. If player want to PVP he can play in Low and Null sec. And for High sec don't need some elements of war like low and null sec. What freedom of player if the rules can change, and we can get war in High sec? Then we can get real chaos in interaction in High sec. This can not be for good. When say EVE-PVP game, we can say- not ONLY PVP. So I don't understand the purpose of developers. New ships, structures, stuffs - really good idea. The change of balance of game- can not good idea.


War is (has always been?) possible in hisec already, Rubicon changes nothing in that regard.

All this poco thing is about is giving you, the citizens of hisec, more freedom and more options, more gameplay.




.

Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#365 - 2013-10-02 14:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Africa
Juniper Weatherwax wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

EVE Online: Rubicon, the 20th Free Expansion for EVE Online, --- snipped ---



Looking to the future, based on this expansion, will we see Player Owned Gates, where in order to travel to an adjacent solar system, one needs to be a part of the Player Owned Corporation who owns the Gate?, or more frighteningly, Player Owned Stations,

Yeah, that way, High Sec Players who love to play PvE, will be well and truly fugged. I love some elements of the new expansion, the SoE Ships for example, and some of the metric changes, but the need to force High Sec players into endless PvP scenarios, just hurts this game for so many players.

I feel, like many, that I have wasted valuable skill point training time, into letting my characters get to level 5 in Planetary Interaction. I was making Organic Mortars, but no more. I ferried them with security in the Orca to Jita, but no more as the Orca lost its built-in security. In the future, you say I will be able to continue as I can use the export station to eject the planetary Output into space for collection, but to make Organic Mortars, you need to export from one planet and IMPORT into the planet making the Organic Mortars. If I have no or limited access to a POCO, then that is not going to happen.

I used three accounts with all characters trained in order to be able to keep Organic Mortar production at near full capacity, that has changed and now I run just two accounts, so a third of my monthly payments to CCP is lost.

I wonder if other players will drop their tertiary accounts as they did when you made massive changes to Ice Mining .

Makes me wonder how many trial accounts, and full time accounts have been lost, because the players decided High Sec (often one sided) PvP was too greater cost to play this game.

Some one said Eve is a Shin Kickers game, the longer you have been in, the bigger you are , the more power you have. And that if you get New players to leave, then they win because the tears are lovely...

Sorry CCP, I feel you are letting the wrong players dictate how you run the game.

I understood it was a sandbox, and that my play style had as much weight as another's play style, but I guess that is only of you belong to a strong PvP Corporation.




You guys kill me ......!!!! Here is a scenario for you , you are this powerful industrialist in high sec where you do PI and manufacture ships and stuff . You sell your product on the market and make a profit......and so your cycle goes on day by day....now don't you agree that's just fucken boring.

The way I see it is CCP is making your world a tad more interesting , now you can take some of that profit and hire a small army of mercenaries to protect your assets on land and in space. Remember it doesn't matter if your a big ass alliance or not you can only take 16 guns into a mach if your operating with Dust corps...so the size doesn't matter its all about the skill of your team on your pay roll.

As an industrialist having mercs protecting or advancing POCOS will in return make you more powerful or broke lol Regardless your play will be a lot more interactive and you could build yourself an empire without shooting one shot ....SOOOOOOOOOO take a blue pill and get with the program.

Btw Im training 2 more maxed out PI alts ....
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#366 - 2013-10-02 15:21:31 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Walking in Stations and DUST 514, both ignored. Again. Thanks for nothing.


No, thanks for paying attention to the EVE Community. I'm sure the Bunnies will get an expansion the likes of which reflect the value they've all invested from their subscriptions...oh yeah, it's free, how could I forget. Twisted

Can't wait to see the other Marauders and the other deployable structures. Great work CCP.
Atlantis Fuanan
Wormhole Research Inc.
#367 - 2013-10-02 15:28:11 UTC
Make the Siphon Unit so, that no player can get the identity of the one who placed it.
Else i seem to like it.

[u]Things that would make EVE better:[/u] NRDS - Remove Local - Balance Cloak - Sov-Mechanic Changes - Less QQ

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#368 - 2013-10-02 17:32:55 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Crasniya wrote:
Walking in Stations and DUST 514, both ignored. Again. Thanks for nothing.


No, thanks for paying attention to the EVE Community. I'm sure the Bunnies will get an expansion the likes of which reflect the value they've all invested from their subscriptions...oh yeah, it's free, how could I forget. Twisted

Can't wait to see the other Marauders and the other deployable structures. Great work CCP.


you realise your sub goes to the development of ALL CCP projects right?

wumbo

Saiphas Cain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#369 - 2013-10-02 18:02:22 UTC
The POCO adjustment mentioned yesterday seems to shift them purely into the realm of bloc conflict and away from industrial use.

Under the proposed tax system a POCO is always at least as expensive as the NPC ones because the player tax is on top of the NPC tax?

Firstly, why should the NPC corp still get tax at all after the players go through the trouble of replacing theirs CO with a POCO? This is essentially highway robbery. If you're going to do this let players assault the Interbus home office to recover their lost tax revenue at gunpoint. THIS is taxation without representation in a universe where might makes right. There is no reason I can think of to justify this change. You may as well just steal a mining tax from people in highsec when ore enters their hold. It's the same thing. The invisible hand taking a cut and no way to shoot that hand. Player tax should be the ONLY tax enforceable once the player replaces a CO with their own equipment.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#370 - 2013-10-02 20:26:27 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Did you ever tried? The best way to have fun in high sec and easier way to rack kills is war deck huge 0.0 alliances. The only problem is that is rather expensive, s o you need a few members in your group to recover the investment. A large alliance has a larger pool of incompetent players (not saying all of their players are, jsut hat statistically they will ahve more of them sicne they are larger) and those are the juiciest targets for war decs.


Yeah, I well know how juicy big alliance targets are. The problem is that these big alliances have full PVP wings going up against industrial corps who either have small or non-existent PVP wings. Most of the people I know who run PI operations in high-sec operate them using their own alts, not necessarily other members of their corp. So while individuals can make good isk at it, few at the corporation level would see the benefit of losing hundreds of millions in isk in ships + war-dec costs going against a potentially well trained PVP force that can switch out when they are tired.

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Likely Super powers will not even BOTHER with high sec POCOs. IF they do, they will simply fight an uphill battle because they will have every single day hundreds of them put into reinforced mode. Super alliances are incredlby powerful, but they cannot be everywhere, not even close to that.


They don't need to be everywhere.. just at critical planets. In addition, the players they will most likely encounter are not going to be well organized. Sure, they *might* be able to mount a defense for a short time, but over the long haul it is doubtful because many corps simply don't have the time, the resources, or the experience to maintain successful guerilla tactics.

I'm still up in the air about switching POCOs over, especially how the taxes are intended to work. I can see it being an interesting conflict opportunity, potentially a good way for smaller alliances to strike back at larger ones too. It could also be a boon for major alliances with thousands of people at their command with the ability to mount takedown and defense fleets no matter what time of the day.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Rune Scorpio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2013-10-02 22:19:20 UTC
Covert cynos are immune to the jammer? Fail ccp.
I give up on you guys ever trying to make fights actually good in eve. All you guys ever do is promote blobbing.
Get my hopes up for good fights and fun, then I see that.
I'll just go awox and suicide gank until I'm bored then.
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2013-10-02 23:23:51 UTC
Rune Scorpio wrote:
Covert cynos are immune to the jammer? Fail ccp.


How is that a fail?

Covert Cynos are alraedy imune to System Cyno jammers why would it be diffrent for a small deployable one?

Is it fail because you got all excited for your carebearing ways, then read the full details?
Garett Rootarian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2013-10-03 02:10:45 UTC
I wonder if the Personal Deployable Structures will use fuel?

We've had cloning in the South for years. It's called cousins. Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring

Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2013-10-03 02:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Canary Jnr
So wow. Such a big buff to hi-sec this expansion. And hi-seccers are still complaining.

60 percent reduction to hisec poco taxes at least if you put the time in, (4 days training or less for 50 percent). No null sec blocs are gonna be touching p1, p2 planets for less than 5 mil a month with 10 percent taxes, the only planets that are gonna get pocos are the factory ones and probably lightly at that bc. the npc tax is still in place/ competition.

meanwhile the accell / nullified inties with 10 sec warps will be plaguing null ratters, and killing a fair amount mind you, as well as the usual afk cloakies.

Hi-seccers should stop moaning and recognise how easy they have it.

EDIT: completely agree with above poster about the ridiculousness of npc taxes AS WELL as player ones. Hope ccp sees sense and reverses this. Why gimp player efforts with this? it's like an hour to grind a poco with subcaps, give us some incentives!
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#375 - 2013-10-03 06:45:00 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
I, for one, am super excited about interceptors getting some much needed upgrades and love.

So I can lock things faster.


Lock things faster. Lol

Haha I see what you did there.
Ceptors locking threads super fast man.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#376 - 2013-10-03 19:06:12 UTC
It took me a while to place the name 'Rubicon', but then I remembered...

The Rubicon is the river that once separated the province of Rome from the rest of the Roman Republic. It was an act of treason for any Roman general to lead men across the Rubicon into the home province.

The name fits the theme of the expansion, transferring power away from the empires and over to the capsuleers, but quite frankly nothing that has been announced so far feels like that act of 'crossing the Rubicon'. The name implies a full capsuleer rebellion against the empires. Wake me up when that happens please, that's when I'll get excited.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#377 - 2013-10-03 19:30:51 UTC
Slowing freighters down more? @&@% you CCP.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#378 - 2013-10-03 20:17:46 UTC
Thorin79 Lasanari wrote:
Quote:
Kagura Nikon wrote
"THis is not a game that you can play without interact with other players".

I don't agree with this. Interaction? Yes. But question is how? In EVE exists 3 zones of security. For what purpose developers want to change to interaction in High sec? High sec must stay zone for trade, economy operations and mining on certain safety. If player want to PVP he can play in Low and Null sec. And for High sec don't need some elements of war like low and null sec. What freedom of player if the rules can change, and we can get war in High sec? Then we can get real chaos in interaction in High sec. This can not be for good. When say EVE-PVP game, we can say- not ONLY PVP. So I don't understand the purpose of developers. New ships, structures, stuffs - really good idea. The change of balance of game- can not good idea.



Did you know that some of the groups with largest PVP activity and killcounts operate almost full time in high sec?

HIgh sec is not non PVP zone. High sec is a zone where PVP have different costs and proceedings than in low sec

High sec NEVER WAS what you tought it was. High sec always had wars, we coudl always kill Hihg sec POSs etc..

EVERYTHING that you could kill in low sec you could kill in high sec as well. The POCOS when introduced became the oddballs being an exception, ccp is just returnign to the normal status where everythgin you can kill in low sec , you can do as well in high sec, as long as you pay for it, be in isk or in deathmails.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#379 - 2013-10-03 20:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Orakkus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Did you ever tried? The best way to have fun in high sec and easier way to rack kills is war deck huge 0.0 alliances. The only problem is that is rather expensive, s o you need a few members in your group to recover the investment. A large alliance has a larger pool of incompetent players (not saying all of their players are, jsut hat statistically they will ahve more of them sicne they are larger) and those are the juiciest targets for war decs.


Yeah, I well know how juicy big alliance targets are. The problem is that these big alliances have full PVP wings going up against industrial corps who either have small or non-existent PVP wings. Most of the people I know who run PI operations in high-sec operate them using their own alts, not necessarily other members of their corp. So while individuals can make good isk at it, few at the corporation level would see the benefit of losing hundreds of millions in isk in ships + war-dec costs going against a potentially well trained PVP force that can switch out when they are tired.

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Likely Super powers will not even BOTHER with high sec POCOs. IF they do, they will simply fight an uphill battle because they will have every single day hundreds of them put into reinforced mode. Super alliances are incredlby powerful, but they cannot be everywhere, not even close to that.


They don't need to be everywhere.. just at critical planets. In addition, the players they will most likely encounter are not going to be well organized. Sure, they *might* be able to mount a defense for a short time, but over the long haul it is doubtful because many corps simply don't have the time, the resources, or the experience to maintain successful guerilla tactics.

I'm still up in the air about switching POCOs over, especially how the taxes are intended to work. I can see it being an interesting conflict opportunity, potentially a good way for smaller alliances to strike back at larger ones too. It could also be a boon for major alliances with thousands of people at their command with the ability to mount takedown and defense fleets no matter what time of the day.



The idea is not to defend from the alliances. Is to kil their POCOS, because they will not have time to visit and protect each of the 100 comming out of reinforcement every day. When they appear, ok let them get it, they will not do it for all and not for too long.


Granted, not doable for solo players, but the game was never designed to play solo, it suppose you have at least some friends and got out of the NPC corps. When you decide to stay in NPC corps, you are limiting yourself, not CCP.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Temba Ronin
#380 - 2013-10-03 22:17:25 UTC
Was the Rubicon hype about player empires CCP code for high sec poco warfare? I fell for it completely, I thought change was coming.

I really had my hopes up that CCP was going to allow players to start challenging NPC organizations for control of things.

Shouldn't powerful corps be able to push NPCs out of low sec where they don't have much Navy or Concord support?

Imagine seeing contested systems like in faction warfare where the contest would be between player owned corps and any Empire militia forces that could rally to defend the assets. Low sec player corps could get good fights just by attacking NPC assets and then ambushing the Militia when they come to the rescue, all without gaining sec status restrictions like in warfare, just criminal timers.

CCP is missing the boat again I'm afraid.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!