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A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites

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Heywood Djiblomi
Doomheim
#461 - 2013-09-27 19:27:04 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Well if you goonies think you can come up with some business deal with CCP then I welcome you to go ahead and take it to them. I think you should be prepared to be laughed out of the room though because you're a bunch of horrible trolls. And also because while you do create a great deal of content you also create a massive cyber-bullying controversy at CCPs first fanfest with sony.

My main thought on all of this is that you're all a bunch of hysterical rabble-rousers and that CCP was just trying to do something fun for eve vegas.

This is why we can't have nice things.


Name-calling is an effective argument technique.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#462 - 2013-09-27 19:30:20 UTC
MyEveLotto wrote:
Berstich wrote:
How is SOMER making profit? I thought all proceeds from this go to sponsor the vegas event? If they didn't get these profits, they wouldn't sponsor the event right? So...the money is just going back into the player base?


Incorrect. They integrated the community event with Somer's game system. In order to have a chance at winning one of these prizes which are supposedly open to anyone in the community to win, you MUST participate in blinks. This means that in order to possibly win these prizes, you MUST give money to Somer Blink in order to play in Blinks which give you tickets in the Blast.

That is how Somer is making a profit. They did not have to pay anything for the prizes they are giving out, which means that it is pure profit that they're taking in through the sale of tickets to have a shot at winning the items. These proceeds are not going to the Vegas event, and because the system for awarding these prizes is integrated into the standard system for Somer Blasts, there is no possible way to know what money came in specifically for these prize (thus, there is no way to funnel that money toward the Vegas event).

The money is not going back into the player base at all. It is going into the Somer corporation wallet.


Well that's an interesting story there. You have first hand knowledge of this or some kind of proof, I'm sure, right?

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#463 - 2013-09-27 19:37:30 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Well if you goonies think you can come up with some business deal with CCP then I welcome you to go ahead and take it to them. I think you should be prepared to be laughed out of the room though because you're a bunch of horrible trolls.

Wrong thread

Sid Hudgens wrote:
And also because while you do create a great deal of content you also create a massive cyber-bullying controversy at CCPs first fanfest with sony.

So it's a doubly edged sword huh. Kind of the the whole Somer and promoting gambling against the odds bit.

Sid Hudgens wrote:
My main thought on all of this is that the people in this thread a bunch of hysterical rabble-rousers and that CCP was just trying to do something fun for eve vegas.

Trying is not good enough. They failed miserably on multiple levels. This is not peewee soccer, where you get a participation ribbon for showing up and don't keep score.

Sid Hudgens wrote:
This is why we can't have nice things.

You mean like a clear ToS that doesn't need to be clarified and re-clarified across multiple threadnaughts?
I don't think the players are the problem here.
Le Petite More
Doomheim
#464 - 2013-09-27 19:38:40 UTC
"CCP Falcon: Due to complaints regarding overzealous player moderation on this channel, everyone from CCP who has been interacting here will be withdrawing from doing so. The same goes for "The Summit" and "Live Events" The reason for this is that we can't allow players to be locked out of interaction with us based on grudges that are held between players."

Somer Blink bans players for their own reasons. CCP can't keep their story straight for a single month. This is a bad decision and I question how much the fact that a former CCP member worked for Somer Blink drove this decision. Where is the CSM? They were formed to stop CCP from doing exactly this to the sandbox. Why has CCP's only reply in this thread been to promote more Somer Blink events with false information? You have to pay before you can play the free blinks CCP! I have only been playing this game for a few months but this might make me quit before I can fly my first battleship.
MyEveLotto
Doomheim
#465 - 2013-09-27 19:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: MyEveLotto
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Well that's an interesting story there. You have first hand knowledge of this or some kind of proof, I'm sure, right?


I'm going to guess that you're incapable of a basic amount of research or understanding on the topic and spell it out for you:

From SOMER's website:

Quote:
CCP-Donated Prizes

Once again CCP has come through with some amazing prizes for our Vegas pre-party!

All prizes will be given out as part of the Blink Blast, so you'll earn tickets just for playing Blink like you normally do-- no purchase required!


http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=celebration

Ok, all well and good. You can get tickets for playing Blink, no purchase requi--hey wait. What is playing Blink? Oh yeah...making a purchase.

From SOMER's website Blast page:

Quote:
Blink Blast!

Get chances to win the Blast just by playing Blink the way you usually do! Receive tickets for playing Blinks and for winning Blinks

...

For this special party, we have prizes from CCP included as part of the Blast! For more info, check out the celebration page. The one-win-per-lifetime rule does not apply to the special prizes from CCP.

...

Here's how it works: Any time you play any Blink, you receive 1 ticket to the drawing (even if you buy more than one ticket). Plus, if you win the Blink, you receive bonus tickets based on the size of the Blink.



So, you get tickets for the Blast by playing Blink. Again, you must play Blink (which involves paying ticket costs, and thus paying money to Somer) in order to receive tickets in Blast, which allows you a chance at winning the prizes from CCP.

They also come out and say, on these pages, themselves, that the prizes are from CCP. They aren't from Somer, which means Somer didn't pay anything for them. They're from CCP.

CCP Navigator also has stated that CCP is giving the items to Somer for this purpose.

That's your proof.

Somer paid nothing for the items, and because they integrated it into their standard lottery system, it costs money to participate in, and that money goes to them.

myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#466 - 2013-09-27 19:43:48 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:

Well that's an interesting story there. You have first hand knowledge of this or some kind of proof, I'm sure, right?

Is there a confirmation box for every ticket you buy, asking if you're buying a regular blink or here for the collector ships? Confirm/deny?

Now if Somer wants to commit that all wallet deposits during this even will be distributed as prizes, that's a different story. But they are not actually giving away isk in the first place.

Every PvP Tournament participant receives 200M Blink Credit!
The winners of every match receive 1 Billion Blink Credit each!

You get credit (hey look, they can create money out of thin air on their site and give it away without an ISK deposit in game) to gamble away. The last time I put 100 mil into blink I came out with a Firetail. Credit =/= ISK.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#467 - 2013-09-27 19:52:55 UTC
MyEveLotto wrote:

So, you get tickets for the Blast by playing Blink. Again, you must play Blink (which involves paying ticket costs, and thus paying money to Somer) in order to receive tickets in Blast, which allows you a chance at winning the prizes from CCP.

The leg CCP is standing on is you can sign up, click a link in the Somer public channel to get 5 free tokens, and get 5 free plays on promos to get 5 free tickets.


WHAT THEY NEGLECT TO MENTION
Unless you have deposited a Billion isk into blink or played a regular blink in the last 24 hours, you cannot purchase a promo ticket.

So at the very least you have to send them 2mil isk, play a frigate promo giving them that isk at a 1/8 chance of winning 11 mil, then refresh the site like a hawk to catch 7 promo runs. (the 2 mil deposit will give you another 2 tokens). That will then give you 7 raffle tickets for the limited edition prizes, or 8 if you win the blink you played.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#468 - 2013-09-27 20:02:51 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
MyEveLotto wrote:
Berstich wrote:
How is SOMER making profit? I thought all proceeds from this go to sponsor the vegas event? If they didn't get these profits, they wouldn't sponsor the event right? So...the money is just going back into the player base?


Incorrect. They integrated the community event with Somer's game system. In order to have a chance at winning one of these prizes which are supposedly open to anyone in the community to win, you MUST participate in blinks. This means that in order to possibly win these prizes, you MUST give money to Somer Blink in order to play in Blinks which give you tickets in the Blast.

That is how Somer is making a profit. They did not have to pay anything for the prizes they are giving out, which means that it is pure profit that they're taking in through the sale of tickets to have a shot at winning the items. These proceeds are not going to the Vegas event, and because the system for awarding these prizes is integrated into the standard system for Somer Blasts, there is no possible way to know what money came in specifically for these prize (thus, there is no way to funnel that money toward the Vegas event).

The money is not going back into the player base at all. It is going into the Somer corporation wallet.


Well that's an interesting story there. You have first hand knowledge of this or some kind of proof, I'm sure, right?


Well we do have first hand knowledge aboutt he fact that the ISK cannot be tracked wether they were for the limited items or regular blink participation that somer always see. Since we can't track each ISK, there is no way to know how much ISK would be needed to be xfered to EVE vegas for them to get back to a break even point. The prize being announced before the blast is over mean that somer does not care about how much isk will get in the wallet. They were gonna donate anyway so all they get from those items is gravy on top of regular operation.
sally Deninard
mss industry
#469 - 2013-09-27 20:03:55 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
MyEveLotto wrote:

So, you get tickets for the Blast by playing Blink. Again, you must play Blink (which involves paying ticket costs, and thus paying money to Somer) in order to receive tickets in Blast, which allows you a chance at winning the prizes from CCP.

The leg CCP is standing on is you can sign up, click a link in the Somer public channel to get 5 free tokens, and get 5 free plays on promos to get 5 free tickets.


WHAT THEY NEGLECT TO MENTION
Unless you have deposited a Billion isk into blink or played a regular blink in the last 24 hours, you cannot purchase a promo ticket.

So at the very least you have to send them 2mil isk, play a frigate promo giving them that isk at a 1/8 chance of winning 11 mil, then refresh the site like a hawk to catch 7 promo runs. (the 2 mil deposit will give you another 2 tokens). That will then give you 7 raffle tickets for the limited edition prizes, or 8 if you win the blink you played.


They also fail to mention that if you are banned by somer blink you CANNOT compete for this prize.
So if you fail to follow the toc`s of a 3rd party website, then you will not be able to compete for these unique prizes.
Does this really sound fair?
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#470 - 2013-09-27 20:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vald Tegor
sally Deninard wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
MyEveLotto wrote:

So, you get tickets for the Blast by playing Blink. Again, you must play Blink (which involves paying ticket costs, and thus paying money to Somer) in order to receive tickets in Blast, which allows you a chance at winning the prizes from CCP.

The leg CCP is standing on is you can sign up, click a link in the Somer public channel to get 5 free tokens, and get 5 free plays on promos to get 5 free tickets.


WHAT THEY NEGLECT TO MENTION
Unless you have deposited a Billion isk into blink or played a regular blink in the last 24 hours, you cannot purchase a promo ticket.

So at the very least you have to send them 2mil isk, play a frigate promo giving them that isk at a 1/8 chance of winning 11 mil, then refresh the site like a hawk to catch 7 promo runs. (the 2 mil deposit will give you another 2 tokens). That will then give you 7 raffle tickets for the limited edition prizes, or 8 if you win the blink you played.


They also fail to mention that if you are banned by somer blink you CANNOT compete for this prize.
So if you fail to follow the toc`s of a 3rd party website, then you will not be able to compete for these unique prizes.
Does this really sound fair?

Yeah I brought that up ~10 pages back. Along with a CCP Falcon quote about not excluding members of the community based on player vs player grudges.

Also there are things people have been banned from Blink over that are not listed as rules anywhere in their site.
sally Deninard
mss industry
#471 - 2013-09-27 20:12:23 UTC
Thx Vald i`ve been trying to bring this up as others are overlooking it.
It may not be a case of a player run corp choosing a winner, but it`s definately a case of them choosing who doesn`t win and that smells mighty corrupt.
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#472 - 2013-09-27 20:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirane Elrek
Have we figured out yet what someone needs to do to get free **** from CCP? Surely Red Frog does enough work for the EVE community to be considered for the next 500 billion ISK gift? How about PL, Kingmakers of Nullsec? EVE Uni perhaps, or RvB?

Or do you have to sponsor player-run events to get free cash? In that case I'd like to enter Goonwaffe for sponsoring Hulkageddon V, and Erotica 1 for being the only honest ISK doubler in EVE and sponsoring the New Order.
E: oh and Gevlon Goblin for sponsoring TEST, thus creating some nice fights in Fountain.
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#473 - 2013-09-27 20:27:39 UTC
sally Deninard wrote:
Thx Vald i`ve been trying to bring this up as others are overlooking it.
It may not be a case of a player run corp choosing a winner, but it`s definately a case of them choosing who doesn`t win and that smells mighty corrupt.

I like how CCP hasn't addressed this at all.
-
Three days and a bit until the drawing.

As time passes more and more of players isk is going into somer's wallet.

How long will CCP wait until addressing issues? Is CSM going to say anything?

This and more in the next excruciating episode of T20 vol.2: The Somergate
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2013-09-27 20:42:30 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:

Well that's an interesting story there. You have first hand knowledge of this or some kind of proof, I'm sure, right?


I'm sure you can lay out Somerblinks site code, the persons and their alts behind it, how much they put into their own pockets, and how much cash they make with referrals?
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#475 - 2013-09-27 21:20:26 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Have we figured out yet what someone needs to do to get free **** from CCP? Surely Red Frog does enough work for the EVE community to be considered for the next 500 billion ISK gift? How about PL, Kingmakers of Nullsec? EVE Uni perhaps, or RvB?

Or do you have to sponsor player-run events to get free cash? In that case I'd like to enter Goonwaffe for sponsoring Hulkageddon V, and Erotica 1 for being the only honest ISK doubler in EVE and sponsoring the New Order.
E: oh and Gevlon Goblin for sponsoring TEST, thus creating some nice fights in Fountain.

Well, the CFC apparently doesn't need it. We just blew a few hundred billion ISK shooting each other, at a community event everyone was invited to partake in.
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#476 - 2013-09-27 21:32:17 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:

Well, the CFC apparently doesn't need it. We just blew a few hundred billion ISK shooting each other, at a community event everyone was invited to partake in.

Shooting each other's spaceships in the game is not real content generation though; having people play a lottery on an external website for a terrible chance at winning a ship in-game, now that's real content right there.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#477 - 2013-09-27 21:45:01 UTC
Edward Pierce wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:

Well, the CFC apparently doesn't need it. We just blew a few hundred billion ISK shooting each other, at a community event everyone was invited to partake in.

Shooting each other's spaceships in the game is not real content generation though; having people play a lottery on an external website for a terrible chance at winning a ship in-game, now that's real content right there.

Need to start recruitment scamming for GTC's instead of ISK to qualify for handouts.
Alt Two
Caldari Capital Construction Inc.
#478 - 2013-09-27 21:48:33 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Have we figured out yet what someone needs to do to get free **** from CCP? Surely Red Frog does enough work for the EVE community to be considered for the next 500 billion ISK gift? How about PL, Kingmakers of Nullsec? EVE Uni perhaps, or RvB?

Or do you have to sponsor player-run events to get free cash? In that case I'd like to enter Goonwaffe for sponsoring Hulkageddon V, and Erotica 1 for being the only honest ISK doubler in EVE and sponsoring the New Order.
E: oh and Gevlon Goblin for sponsoring TEST, thus creating some nice fights in Fountain.

You have to refer people to a GTC vendor with strong ties to RMTing.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#479 - 2013-09-27 21:50:22 UTC
Still bogus CCP. sure slightly different and in one way maybe less bogus, but it shows you really don't get it.

For the current CSM, all I can say is welcome to the CSM/CCP awesome fest.

This really is the best representation of being the CSM ever

The Life of a CSM

Simply brilliant Trebor!!

CCP, we know you want to decide who the cool kids are and to make sure they know they are special, but let the players pick them with your game mechanics in a sandbox like in a playground, not like you'd set out for your cat. If you like certain players more than others buy them a plate of rotten shark and a shot of some nasty Icelandic liquor at fanfest, making them insanely wealthy by giving them rare game stuff is not player generated content nor will it grow your player base.

CCP, you folks spend a lot of resources maintaining a CSM, think about including them before shooting yourself in your monument next time. You might be surprised to find they know and care a lot about your shooting strangers in the face in space game!

Issler
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#480 - 2013-09-27 21:50:57 UTC
T'kimat wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Best case scenario - Somer makes a lot of ISK out of the extra lotteries, then steals the unique ships, some interesting EVE history is made and the game gets some publicity.

Most likely scenario - the biggest act of CCP/individual player collusion since the fraudulent T2 BPO handouts occurs.


Most likely scenario: Largest whinefest since monoclegate and CCP stops supporting player-run events, since there is no sign of constructive feedback - only blind rage.



If this is their idea of 'support' for player events, then hopefully your most likely case occurs. It's not a sandbox if the sandbox owner plays favorites in a big way, like CCP employees did with BOB.

This is as much an attack on the integrity of the game as RMT fraud is.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com