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sick of plex prices

Author
Deth Tu Ignorance
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2011-10-31 19:00:15 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
I am saying - Stop allowing ingame PLEX to be used to pay for Subs. Those extra, "free" accounts just generate more ISK, way more than the incoming real money spent to buy PLEX. There's your equations Sirs, think it through.

You sub (x) accounts by using ingame ISK to by ingame PLEX.
Those (x) account generate even more ISK
There's your ISK flood, blame that, stop trying to allocate blame on mission runners/incursions etc.
The fact is that ISK should not be able to buy ingame PLEX.
Will that upset people Hell yes it will.
Will accounts "unsubscribe" Hell yes they will - Unpaying accounts.
Most of you who are playing for more than a year do not even pay real cash to play Eve. You think this is cool and it is right - It is not cool nor right, you are undermining CCP, the very company struggling finacially, the company who run this game.

Stop the ISK faucet ? Easy, disallow the subbing of accounts using ingame PLEX. This will force those who want to play, to pay. All those thousands of free accounts that are ingame generating trillions of ISK can go away over time, because they are just using easily-earned ISK to buy ingame PLEX.

PLEX prices should be 10x their current amount in ISK - discourage all those free accounts churning out more ISK.





This HAS to be the most illogical thing I have read in a VERY long time.

How does stopping plex from being used to pay for accounts have the effect of driving up the price to discourage those "free" accounts??Shocked

How can removing a mechanic from the game then have the effect of getting people to CHOOSE to use that same said mechanic less?X

1) There are no "free" accounts. Every one that is paid for with plex actually generates more money for CCP than ones that are subbed.
2) The main reason people buy plex with isk is to pay for accounts. Stopping people from using plex to pay for accounts would TANK the plex market in 24h.
3) The accounts that are paid for with plex are removing plex from the game and help keep the isk price up for plex.
4) Removing plex to from adding time to accounts would COMPLETELY leave the demand for plex driven by the aurum system. So you could technically remove the plex and directly buy aurum instead.
5) The round of unsubs over the summer has actually driven up the plex price because more people are paying for their accounts with plex and thats increased demand.
6) The only way that Plex in ANY way affects CCPs bottom line (other than getting a little bit more per month per account) is the fact that they basically get paid in advance. So when the market has a lot of plex in it then CCP is on the hook for X months paid subscriptions worth when they might have already spent the money.

The end result of your argument would be to restrict eve to people that had money to pay with cash for every account and open the floodgates to isk sellers. People with the extra money but limited time that wanted to buy some shiney things would have no way that was CCP approved.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2011-10-31 19:05:02 UTC
Thorn Galen is trolling you. Stop falling for it.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2011-10-31 19:08:25 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
classic case of inflation. eve has no real isk sinks. its only going to go higher. deal with it.


I agree, they should limit the amount of pure isk coming into the game, and cause more of it to be consumed elsewhere.
Hyacinthous
Sibyl Cadre
#84 - 2011-10-31 19:18:52 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
PLEX for gametime is negatively affecting CCP's cashflow.

Here's a simplistic scenario :-

I Spend $10 for a PLEX on the site.
You who have billions of ISK buy the PLEX for 400Million ISK
You buy more.
And more.
You use a PLEX to fund an account, however many you may have, 1 or 20, does not matter.
You do not pay $20 to sub for a couple of months, not ever.
Say 50,000 accounts on the system.
10,000 are paying hard cash for subs
5,000 are paying hard cash for PLEX
There's a defecit of real money, real money not going to CCP.
Funding an account by buying and using ingame PLEX is a loss for CCP.

CCP is bleeding badly because of PLEX for subs.




Who cares, don't like it - don't allow plex to be bought in game for game time. This is like a toddler whining about someone doing something that only that toddler can do.

This is the exact reason why CCP is failing, they are putting Revenue infront of Creative discipline. Money before their product. When a company does a bad job, there are consequences. If the game was designed and setup properly it wouldn't simply be a case of "pay to win" like it is now. It's a matter of fact that anyone with a lot of money can pretty much buy their way through Eve Online and anyone who doesn't want to pay doesn't have to, but is fairly limited (by time) in what they can do with the game. Someone who is willing to buy plex with money can turn it into isk and then sink all that isk into whatever they want, the people who work for it have to mindlessly do boring dull things to make enough isk just to buy one. The greedy soul-less people that have hundreds of plex and fund their accounts with them have stolen them from other people who bought them, probably through ganking and only because CCP won't correct the major fundamental design flaws with their game - and so the problem will continue until they confront the issues.
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#85 - 2011-10-31 19:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rod Blaine
Been there done that:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901799

2008: 600m for 60 day GTC which: 300m = 1 PLEX


it's nothign new, the whole CCP endorsed RMT circle that is now known as PLEX and used to be known as the Timecode Bazaar is a closed system that really only benefits CCP as a company. directly because as a whole it's likey to inflate rather then deflate the amount of paid accounts (i used to have one, now have 3 and still do even if they often don't get paid for with isk). Indirectly because ir curbs other RMT mechanics like good old IGE isk sales.

All in all, i think CCP doesnt make bulk PLEX offers to affect the price balance of PLEX, but because they need cash in order to do such things as improve the financial balance of the company. Every plex sold now rather then later earns them a small amount of money, and buys time to get subscriber rates up or lower company cost levels.


Wether this benefits the game is a different thing. Because even when the PLEX system (i was one of the proponents of the whole gtc for isk system because of this back in ? 2005?) does have a curbing effect on other forms of RMT (the ones where CCP do NOT get teh dollah, and as such can invest less into EVE development), from the look of things there can be a fair argument made that bought isk, bought gametime or simply botted isk might have a big effect on the game.

That might not be reflected in the prices of PLEX overall, but my guess would be that, if CCP would bother to really analyze player behaviour on this count, they'd notice that the demographic distribution of PLEX sales and PLEX buys shows remarkable longterm trends. And when corrected for the influences of mechanic changes with an effect on income distibution across the same demographic subsets of the playerbase, there remains one big explanation for the skewed distribution in accounts paid for with isk. You fill it in...
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2011-10-31 19:26:00 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
PLEX for gametime is negatively affecting CCP's cashflow.

Here's a simplistic scenario :-

I Spend $10 for a PLEX on the site.
You who have billions of ISK buy the PLEX for 400Million ISK
You buy more.
And more.
You use a PLEX to fund an account, however many you may have, 1 or 20, does not matter.
You do not pay $20 to sub for a couple of months, not ever.
Say 50,000 accounts on the system.
10,000 are paying hard cash for subs
5,000 are paying hard cash for PLEX
There's a defecit of real money, real money not going to CCP.
Funding an account by buying and using ingame PLEX is a loss for CCP.

CCP is bleeding badly because of PLEX for subs.



actually, al PLEX's bought are still money to CCP, as all PLEX's on the amrket have been bought for 20$ or rough equivalent by SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE, all your doing buying a PLEX on the market is buying 30 days of game time from another player.
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#87 - 2011-10-31 19:26:46 UTC
Hyacinthous wrote:
[quote=Thorn Galen]. The greedy soul-less people that have hundreds of plex and fund their accounts with them have stolen them from other people who bought them, probably through ganking .


wtflol?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2011-10-31 19:36:06 UTC
Rod Blaine wrote:



it's nothign new, the whole CCP endorsed RMT circle that is now known as PLEX and used to be known as the Timecode Bazaar is a closed system that really only benefits CCP as a company....


And what's wrong with that? CCP might herp the derp, but I'd still prefer the money went to them than some Bulgarian sheep -pimp

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Generals4
#89 - 2011-10-31 19:44:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Rod Blaine wrote:



it's nothign new, the whole CCP endorsed RMT circle that is now known as PLEX and used to be known as the Timecode Bazaar is a closed system that really only benefits CCP as a company....


And what's wrong with that? CCP might herp the derp, but I'd still prefer the money went to them than some Bulgarian sheep -pimp


Exactly and on top of that it allows me to play for free. And i could even claim it provides more targets to shoot at.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _

Ratnose Banker
Pink Sockers
#90 - 2011-10-31 19:47:16 UTC
Nerf high sec incursions. Also bots.
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-10-31 19:53:23 UTC
Ratnose Banker wrote:
Nerf high sec incursions. Also bots.



your tears here please

|~~|
|__|
Generals4
#92 - 2011-10-31 19:55:53 UTC
Ratnose Banker wrote:
Nerf high sec incursions. Also bots.


Or you could go ask goons to suicide gank logi's in incursion sites. (i can only imagine the tears from people losing their pimped up faction/T2 BS's)

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _

Amsterdam Conversations
Doomheim
#93 - 2011-10-31 19:58:52 UTC
Guess high sec incursions give too much reward then.
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#94 - 2011-10-31 19:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rod Blaine
me lub dp's
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2011-10-31 20:01:14 UTC
PLEX are bought with real money by somebody....

Those PLEX in game are then bought for ISK.....

This essentially creates an exchange rate for Real money and ISK....

When demans for PLEX goes up... Relative value of ISK to real money goes down....

This is good fro PLEX sellers, good for CCP, and bad for PLEX buyers...

However, rest assured no matter what happens CCP gets their money. NOBODY plays for free its just appears that way....

When you BUY PLEX and then sell them in game you are actually subsidizing someone else playing time buy taking ISK in exchange.

Two things to consider are. ISK per minute and Actual cost per minute... CCP frankly has no play in either what you need to determine is how much over the real cost per minute you're willing to settle for from an ISK perspective...

I
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#96 - 2011-10-31 20:04:51 UTC
Rod Blaine wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
[quote=Rod Blaine]


it's nothign new, the whole CCP endorsed RMT circle that is now known as PLEX and used to be known as the Timecode Bazaar is a closed system that really only benefits CCP as a company....


And what's wrong with that? CCP might herp the derp, but I'd still prefer the money went to them than some Bulgarian sheep -pimp


I agree(d).

The problem is that this system seems to have the unintended side effect of making (rat) bot bannage a negative cashflow proposition for CCP, as long as the bot owners aren't tied up in non-PLEX RMT.

As far as CCP cashflow logic is concerned:

edit: tl;dr

mining bots deflate = less accounts, less plex for isk, less dollah for ccp
isk bots inflate = more accounts, more plex for isk, more dollah for ccp
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2011-10-31 20:11:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Thorn Galen wrote:


You fail at mathematics and you fail at economics.
The system as it currently stands = diminishing returns.


If the IRL price for plex is constant, how can it be diminishing returns? The amount of isk paid for plex is inconsequential and self-regulating.. Less supply -> higher price. We are getting higher price currently, propably because people like you think that supply is infinite and demand more.

Somebody needs to have a reality check..

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Ender Black
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2011-10-31 20:16:22 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Ratnose Banker wrote:
Nerf high sec incursions. Also bots.


Or you could go ask goons to suicide gank logi's in incursion sites. (i can only imagine the tears from people losing their pimped up faction/T2 BS's)


Only intelligent post in this whole damn thread.

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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#99 - 2011-10-31 20:29:26 UTC
Ender Black wrote:
Generals4 wrote:
Ratnose Banker wrote:
Nerf high sec incursions. Also bots.


Or you could go ask goons to suicide gank logi's in incursion sites. (i can only imagine the tears from people losing their pimped up faction/T2 BS's)


Only intelligent post in this whole damn thread.



Good idea actually, if it'd work.
+ 1 geddon up for this
Teresa Wisemail
Crelm Toothpaste Co. Ltd.
#100 - 2011-10-31 21:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Teresa Wisemail
I would like to throw another variable into this discussion about the "cost of money" of isk.

CCP has made an agreement with Nexon (A MMO operator in Japan) so that Nexon will be providing billing and localization support to Japan-based players. The catch is that all players accessing from Japan will have to access EVE through Nexon's portal, and they will have to pay using "Nexon points" (Nexon's own virtual currency).

The concern I have here is that an entirely separate money supply governed by completely different rules may end up influencing isk's cost of money. One glaring problem is that Nexon points can be exchanged with other virtual commodities, and are not solely backed with cold hard cash. For example, a player in Nexon's other popular MMO "Maple Story" can sell in-game equipment for Nexon Points. I probably don't need to provide much more detail on how certain types of players will be very effective at racking up a lot of Nexon Points and potentially let that capital flow into the isk money supply. Perhaps CCP has already hedged against that risk, but I have not heard anything to that effect. All I am hearing (and official GM responses that have been received by Japanese players) is "don't worry." Famous last words, anyone?

Not only that, Nexon allows (well, they actually sell these rights) other advertisers the right to use Nexon Points as lures for their promotions, such as the common "sign up now and get 300 Nexon Points for free!." In fact, a very dedicated individual can go around a bunch of promotion sites, registering a bunch of throw-away e-mail addresses to create a bank of virtual currency, and convert those Nexon Points to whatever service provided by Nexon (including access to EVE-- I don't think it's confirmed whether people can directly buy PLEX with Nexon points).

Regardless of whether PLEX can or can not be bought with Nexon Points does not matter, because Nexon points can be gained without spending real money and without contributing to any economic activity within the EVE universe. I personally don't think there is any problem with players buying PLEX within EVE as they would have had to make ISK somehow through generating economic activity inside the sandbox. Nexon points, on the other hand, introduces an unknown factor in terms of economic activity that is external to EVE. How does CCP gain the benefit of that sort of external economic activity?

Perhaps someone who's smarter than myself can help me understand the business model here. It seems like CCP will just keep losing money (potentially) and PLEX values can deflate with people being able to play EVE using non-EVE virtual currency.