EVE General Discussion

Justin: The definitions of griefing as applied in other games are not relevant here. CCP are not selective. How they define and choose to apply game rules is entirely their right. Players have the right to follow those guidelines. Players who do are playing the game.

market manipulation is merely a tool to extend the griefing further, by being able to grief people I'm not even shooting

Except that they only way for them to claim the system is via the harassment of other players... since there's no actual game mechanic to allow players or Corporations to claim hi-sec space. (You could argue "wardecs", but then you're just supporting the my argument - wardecs are a valid game mechanic, griefplay is not).

Also I don't think you quite understand the definition of the word "harassment"... In this case, the word becomes "forcible coercion" because it's harassment until demands are met... ie, to leave the system.



Except for the fact that they are. CCP's position is the following:

http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336

But again, like I said: CCP is selective in enforcing their policies.

Of course, you could always argue that the lone nano fit Stabber who spends his time flipping cans and bumping miners out of range of asteroids is doing it for "economic reasons", or that the Rifter who keeps flipping my friends' can "isn't targetting my friend specifically, just anyone in the system my friend happens to be in in order to 'claim' that system", but, as with most of your arguments, that one won't fly either.



Yes, it does disrupt their gameplay, because now they have to be bothered to 1) find another suitable system 2) move all their required assets out there and 3) deal with the griefers who undoubtedly inhabit that system.



Except for the fact that they are actually attacking other players and specifically those players in that sysatem, you would have had a valid point..

Read it more carefully. It says "An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems." Those are the handful of systems players are born in, not all hi sec.

Hint: Hi-sec is different from lo-sec and null-sec. For one, in null-sec you don't need to declare war to shoot someone, and you suffer no CONCORDOKEN or security status penalties. In low-sec, you also don't need to declare war to shoot someone, and while you don't suffer a CONCORDOKEN, you do recieve a security status penalty. In both null-sec and lo-sec you can set up sovereignty and claim a system.

However, in hi-sec, you cannot shoot anyone without a wardec, and if you do you suffer a CONCORDOKEN as well as a large security status hit. If your security status drops, you can no longer enter hi-sec (this suggests that CCP does not want hi-sec to be filled with pirates and gankers.... hint hint). Also, you cannot set up sovereignty and claim a system in hi-sec.

Now that I've walked your hand through it, is your understanding sufficient to continue in these exchanges?

So only difference is that it is harder to pull off in high sec.

…except that in that case, they're not targeting the players, specifically, but the system. That means it's not harassment of players.

Well do you truly believe that ??? Devil advocate i get it...

But anyone with at least one brain cell knows that those player driven events are specifically created to kill "as many industrial ships" as possible .. there are not doing it for getting an system...

But at least something happening..

Altho if one party cross the board and take off whole part of game by their actions .. they should know better. Since than action will be most likely taken against it... Not by removing another aspect of the game but probably by simple buff ..

So you would have to have at least two volleys from 1400mm gank maelstrom to destroy an hulk .. .It will still happen but it would be more of an "fair" sport/exchange .. and people wont do it for giggle but for reasons you mentioned...

That depends: are they just keeping people out of the system or are they following the people around and actually harass them?
No, they're doing it to kill as many industrial ships as possible — not to harass specific players.
…so, much like how it is right now then.

Direct quote from a post of Mittani's;



In the Goon's case, it is not "warfare over resources."

true they do not harrass individuals but specific group of people. In some way its actually more dangerous.


Well its hard to imagine an normal T2 fitted hulk with shield extender rigs and DC to survive it but maybe you are right, i havent tried it nor been ganked since i cant mine.