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A lesson learned about Mictrotransactions...
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#1 - 2013-09-20 10:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.

Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?

[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url]

Thank me later :D
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-09-20 10:35:32 UTC
They probably won't go down that path.

If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2013-09-20 10:38:28 UTC
Bischopt wrote:
They probably won't go down that path.

If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game.


What about Aurum? I have also heard rumors of Eve moving to a free-to-play model with microtransactions becoming the norm. I agree with you though - I think this would kill a part Eve Online's soul ... assuming she has one, what a heartless bi-...err, lady she can be Pirate

Thank me later :D
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#4 - 2013-09-20 10:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Using MT for game relevant stuff (pay2win) is bad... and will, hopefully, never happen in EVE... but MT for vanity items is ok, I guess... as long as it's reasonably priced. D3 was, essentially, p2w, since you could buy items for real money on the AH... they only got away with it for so long because there is no real PvP in the game.

Good the AH goes, though... even if it, most likely, will not save the game.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-20 10:39:55 UTC
I play EVE BECAUSE there is no microtransaction. I want to pay my 15€ every months and be equal with the other subscribers.
"Greed is good" = immediat unsub.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2013-09-20 10:41:38 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Using MT for game relevant stuff (pay2win) is bad... and will, hopefully, never happen in EVE... but MT for vanity items is ok, I guess... as long as it's reasonably priced. D3 was, essentially, p2w, since you could buy items for real money on the AH... they only got away with it for so long because there is no real PvP in the game.

Good the AH goes, though... even if it, most likely, will not save the game.


Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative?

Thank me later :D
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2013-09-20 10:44:13 UTC
MT isn't the end of the world, PROVIDED THAT the MT stuffs stay away from gold ammo/ships/etc ... or they're gimped in some manner.

In Dust, CCP kinda went the "gimped" route. IIRC (well, during beta anyway -- haven't really had time to check it out because RL) you had "normal" dropsuits at skill levels 1/3/5, and the suits happened to be meta 1/3/5 (IIRC). If you didn't want to wait to get SP for the next level in that skill, you could buy meta 2/4 suits for AUR (at the same skill reqs for a meta 1/3 ISK-suit). So, yeah, at the same level, a MT person could get a better suit ... but the person staying with ISK/skills would (eventually) come out on top.

In EVE, I would rather see CCP leave it to vanity items, or items that could be gotten elsewhere, such as LP store items.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#8 - 2013-09-20 10:45:40 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative?

There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Blink

Other then that, it's purely coop...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#9 - 2013-09-20 10:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
Meanwhile Mechwarrior Online, Star Trek Online and many many others make probably millions out of vanity items and even pay to win. Key difference of course is that these games are technically free to play. World of Warcraft also probably makes additional few million from server transfers, name changes and vanity items.

So what is the lesson we're supposed to be learning here?

Eve players will never gulp down "gold ammo" - neither should they, I'm against pay2win as well - but a properly implemented vanity item shop would be good for eve rather than bad.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2013-09-20 10:46:52 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
MT isn't the end of the world, PROVIDED THAT the MT stuffs stay away from gold ammo/ships/etc ... or they're gimped in some manner.

In Dust, CCP kinda went the "gimped" route. IIRC (well, during beta anyway -- haven't really had time to check it out because RL) you had "normal" dropsuits at skill levels 1/3/5, and the suits happened to be meta 1/3/5 (IIRC). If you didn't want to wait to get SP for the next level in that skill, you could buy meta 2/4 suits for AUR (at the same skill reqs for a meta 1/3 ISK-suit). So, yeah, at the same level, a MT person could get a better suit ... but the person staying with ISK/skills would (eventually) come out on top.

In EVE, I would rather see CCP leave it to vanity items, or items that could be gotten elsewhere, such as LP store items.


What about combining gameplay with MT to leap-frog the competition in pursuit of those 1337'er items? Slippery slopes, and stuff...

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2013-09-20 10:49:02 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Meanwhile Mechwarrior Online, Star Trek Online and many many others make probably millions out of vanity items and even pay to win. Key difference of course is that these games are technically free to play. World of Warcraft also probably makes additional few million from server transfers, name changes and vanity items.

So what is the lesson we're supposed to be learning here?


I'm not sure those games have player-driven economies as intricately woven into gameplay as Eve Online does - I've never played another MMO [on PC] for more than 5m.

I think the implied lesson is don't' break it if it doesn't need to be fixed... or something :D

Thank me later :D
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#12 - 2013-09-20 10:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Amhra Rho
This article shows lots of signs that Bizzard didn't know what they were doing when they created the auction house in D3. It's incredibly difficult to create and balance a virtual economy - you need a good economist plus your own fair share of luck. This article makes it sound like Blizz had neither.

Then there's this:
Quote:
Blizzard will shut down the auction house entirely come March 18, 2014.

If it's such a horrendous mess, why are they waiting half a year to phase it out? It's just . . . odd.

Not taking a stand on microtransactions one way or the other - just suggesting that Blizzard perhaps creates better Orc battles than Auction Houses.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Jim Era
#13 - 2013-09-20 10:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Era
If only CCP would release WiS then just imagine....no need to p2w at all, just keep the monthly sub and vanity items...but implement p2becool...I would pay $20 for a cat to follow me around in station...and a little rc car...and cigars

Wat™
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2013-09-20 11:02:49 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
If only CCP would release WiS then just imagine....no need to p2w at all, just keep the monthly sub and vanity items...but implement p2becool...I would pay $20 for a cat to follow me around in station...and a little rc car...and cigars


Perhaps we could get some real-PvP in a bar, eh?

Thank me later :D
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-09-20 11:03:32 UTC
is there older rumors we can discuss?
MT is already discussed and boring.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2013-09-20 11:15:20 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
is there older rumors we can discuss?
MT is already discussed and boring.


Well, sir, your boring post is appreciated either way. o/

Thank me later :D
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#17 - 2013-09-20 11:16:13 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative?

There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Blink

Other then that, it's purely coop...



It's not 'purely' coop. You can play solo and I'd wager that the vast majority of users do (I do, when I play it.) This was the core of the reason for outrage over the online-only requirement for the game. However, the online requirement was put in to put a stop to the rampant hacking and duping that was prevalent in Diablo 2 -- so I personally was not among the ones who had a problem with having to be online to play.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2013-09-20 11:18:57 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative?

There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Blink

Other then that, it's purely coop...



It's not 'purely' coop. You can play solo and I'd wager that the vast majority of users do (I do, when I play it.) This was the core of the reason for outrage over the online-only requirement for the game. However, the online requirement was put in to put a stop to the rampant hacking and duping that was prevalent in Diablo 2 -- so I personally was not among the ones who had a problem with having to be online to play.



Thanks for the explanation. I'm generally ignorant of most things, especially PC-based games. Eve Online is the first PC exclusive that I've ever played. Eve is also the best game I've ever played. Too bad I'm so bad at the best game I've ever played :D

Thank me later :D
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#19 - 2013-09-20 11:21:04 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Although I have never played D3... I was under the impression that it was a PvP-dungeon crawler'ish thing, no? Or was it mainly cooperative?

There was a rudimentary "sparring" PvP mode added a few months ago... it had no effect on your character, however (no rewards, rank or anything)... your gear wasn't even damaged when you lost... it was just to see whos better, so to speak. Blink

Other then that, it's purely coop...



It's not 'purely' coop. You can play solo and I'd wager that the vast majority of users do (I do, when I play it.) This was the core of the reason for outrage over the online-only requirement for the game. However, the online requirement was put in to put a stop to the rampant hacking and duping that was prevalent in Diablo 2 -- so I personally was not among the ones who had a problem with having to be online to play.



Thanks for the explanation. I'm generally ignorant of most things, especially PC-based games. Eve Online is the first PC exclusive that I've ever played. Eve is also the best game I've ever played. Too bad I'm so bad at the best game I've ever played :D



Oh, I'm bad at EVE. And Diablo. ;) But I have fun, so hey -- why not?

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-09-20 11:21:50 UTC
I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great.

The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding.

Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed.


(Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now Twisted)
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