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Why are capitals banned in high sec?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2013-09-20 19:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Domanique Altares wrote:
That's a pretty silly reason.
No, it really isn't.

People want capships in highsec because they drool at the thought of the added tank and firepower they provide. Those two things are exactly why they can't be allowed in highsec: because it's an escalation of power that is completely out of whack with what the small-fry highsec entitty can put together. It is also completely out of whack with the kind of content highsec has to offer — they simply have no place there.

If you want the big stuff, go play in the big-boy sandbox where the game mechanics are adjusted to make them as risky to use as they should be but also give them a purpose for existing.

Alternatively, whenever a capship enters highsec, its tank and damage output is cut down to 1/10th to make it scale with everything else around it. As luck would have it, we already have ships that offer those capabilities. They're called battleships, and as a capship pilot, you have already trained for them so you're ready to go.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-09-20 19:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
And that does not make a cruiser a frigate, as was suggested by the poster I quoted.
No. What was suggested by the poster was the exact opposite: that what makes a cruiser a cruiser rather than a frigate is its ability to fit cruiser-sized weapons or, more accurately, that what makes a capship a capship rather than some kind of subcap is its ability to fit capship modules, its required use of capital rigs, and that the capship skill is somewhere in its prereq tree.

Quote:
tl;dr Capital ships do not require capital fittings.
…and that was not the suggestion. Rather, the ability to fit capital modules separates capitals from other ship classes. Orcas, not being able to fit capital modules, therefore aren't really capital in that sense.



And strangely, they are a capital.

Guess that's not a definable criteria.

Maybe it's something else... like mass, or something...

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#63 - 2013-09-20 19:30:33 UTC
Does the Orca require the Capital Ships skill to fly? Too lazy to check

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#64 - 2013-09-20 19:38:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Does the Orca require the Capital Ships skill to fly? Too lazy to check


Nope.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-09-20 19:52:22 UTC
A capital ship is a ship that requires the capital ships skill.

Ships that require the capital ships skill:
Rorqual, Archon, Thanatos, Nidhoggur, Chimera, Revelation, Moros, Naglfar, Phoenix, Aeon, Nyx, Hel, Wyvern, Revenant, Avatar, Erebus, Ragnarok, and Leviathan.

Notice that this list incorporates every ship in the game that cannot use stargates, has too much mass to traverse wormholes into highsec, and cannot be built in highsec. Then it becomes much easier to just say "you cannot build capital ships in highsec, use stargates in a capital ship, or pass through a wormhole to highsec in a capital ship."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
#66 - 2013-09-20 19:57:35 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
Well if anything, it gives Null sec a certain vibe, as for many its the place where these large ships everyone keeps hearing about are found.

Makes it more exciting for the newer players.

Admit you were a bit excited when you saw your first titan.


It was Shrike and he DD our fleet....Lol
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2013-09-20 20:07:49 UTC
Speaking of which...

Is a jump drive considered a capital module? (Not micro jump drive which admittedly is a new addition to Eve)

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-09-20 20:08:22 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Does the Orca require the Capital Ships skill to fly? Too lazy to check



None of the freighters do afaik.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-09-20 20:17:27 UTC
I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-09-20 20:26:57 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Speaking of which...

Is a jump drive considered a capital module? (Not micro jump drive which admittedly is a new addition to Eve)


No, it's a capital ability. The jump drive is, for capital ships, the trade-off for not being able to use stargates, and it's a special ability for the two classes of non-capital ships that have them (black ops and jump freighters).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-09-20 20:29:49 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

The Orca is an industrial command ship, not a capital industrial ship.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-09-20 20:31:34 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

The Orca is an industrial command ship, not a capital industrial ship.


Then CCP should correct their wiki as it is a source of information for capsuleers.

As you can see, it is listed as a capital ship.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#73 - 2013-09-20 22:50:13 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

The Orca is an industrial command ship, not a capital industrial ship.


Then CCP should correct their wiki as it is a source of information for capsuleers.

As you can see, it is listed as a capital ship.

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Personally I wouldn't count an orca as a cap ship. IMO even Blops are more similar to cap ships than Orcas.

Freighters and Jump freighters though.... I personally don't see the argument against counting them as capitals.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-09-20 23:15:37 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

The Orca is an industrial command ship, not a capital industrial ship.


Then CCP should correct their wiki as it is a source of information for capsuleers.

As you can see, it is listed as a capital ship.

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Personally I wouldn't count an orca as a cap ship. IMO even Blops are more similar to cap ships than Orcas.

Freighters and Jump freighters though.... I personally don't see the argument against counting them as capitals.

They're allowed into highsec, can be built in highsec, and can use stargates. They're not capitals.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#75 - 2013-09-20 23:21:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

The Orca is an industrial command ship, not a capital industrial ship.


Then CCP should correct their wiki as it is a source of information for capsuleers.

As you can see, it is listed as a capital ship.

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Personally I wouldn't count an orca as a cap ship. IMO even Blops are more similar to cap ships than Orcas.

Freighters and Jump freighters though.... I personally don't see the argument against counting them as capitals.

They're allowed into highsec, can be built in highsec, and can use stargates. They're not capitals.

CCP seems to disagree.

Likewise there are capitals in hisec (e.g. the veldnaught). Did the veldnaught stop being a capital? Your definition of capital doesn't seem to be in agreement with the game's definition.

If I have to go with a definition of capitals, which one do you think I should use: the one some random guy provides, or the one provided by ccp?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2013-09-20 23:29:45 UTC
Except nothing I said was incorrect and it provides a very clear definition.

Note that I said "allowed into" highsec.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#77 - 2013-09-20 23:31:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Except nothing I said was incorrect and it provides a very clear definition.


It just happens to be wrong. According to ccp anyway, but what do they know?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2013-09-20 23:31:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
PotatoOverdose wrote:
If I have to go with a definition of capitals, which one do you think I should use: the one some random guy provides, or the one provided by ccp?

CCP doesn't provide a definition — only an arbitrary designation.

Oh, and the wiki is not a reliable source for anything, especially not the CCP-exclusive and locked-down pages.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-09-20 23:32:43 UTC
And I wouldn't consider capitals like the Veldnaught "allowed" so much as "grandfathered in with very strict restrictions".


Bombs aren't allowed in highsec either. Sure you can fit a bomb launcher and put bombs in it, but as soon as you try to activate it you'll find that nothing happens.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2013-09-20 23:33:42 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Except nothing I said was incorrect and it provides a very clear definition.


It just happens to be wrong. According to ccp anyway, but what do they know?

No, nothing I said was wrong, according to CCP or otherwise.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)