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Why are people so averse to risk taking?
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#21 - 2013-09-19 05:31:22 UTC
Poster Master wrote:
Twylla wrote:


stuff
I'm sorta in that position now, having 'fallen out' of the nulsec bullsht, and now I can't put my skillset to any use in highsec 'cause of the rampant ganking and trolling. I hadn't had a mack undocked for ten minutes in my quiet, out of the way 'summer home' before I had scanners and gankers all over the place. Luckily, I'm smarter than your average bear and knew when to cut out, but it's sad.


Agreed, this creates a lack of progression. In other games, you get those 3%, 5%, 1% upgrades to your character and 5 months later you pride yourself on having a 20-25% better character. In EvE you spend the same amount of time to claim that you now run missions 30% faster but you are now also fifty times more likely to be ganked so the faster mission income will mean nothing because a day will come when you make a mistake and die, offsetting all the benefits of the upgrade.

That's why im trying to find alternatives to missioning, such as null sec explo, but that has its own set of issues.


Exploration means taking shared public resources If you take shared public resources, expect conflict.

In any case this is EVE, it is not "Best in Slot Craft", the goal is to win the conflict.
Poster Master
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-09-19 05:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Poster Master
Sol Kal'orr wrote:
Complains that people are risk averse. Has forum alt.


To be quite honest this is my forum main and the other guy is just the game alt.

On a more serious note, in one instance there was an extremely high probability of the person overcoming 1v1 battle over me (since my ship was gimped) but in the case of forum alts it is always advisable.

Your argument could be taken to the extreme in that everyone in eve is a carebear because no one is willing to fit up a 60 bil ship and fly it around while spamming local with the fit. i mean.. you see those killmails sometimes but that is not normal behavior.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#23 - 2013-09-19 06:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Poster Master wrote:
Twylla wrote:


stuff
I'm sorta in that position now, having 'fallen out' of the nulsec bullsht, and now I can't put my skillset to any use in highsec 'cause of the rampant ganking and trolling. I hadn't had a mack undocked for ten minutes in my quiet, out of the way 'summer home' before I had scanners and gankers all over the place. Luckily, I'm smarter than your average bear and knew when to cut out, but it's sad.


Agreed, this creates a lack of progression. In other games, you get those 3%, 5%, 1% upgrades to your character and 5 months later you pride yourself on having a 20-25% better character. In EvE you spend the same amount of time to claim that you now run missions 30% faster but you are now also fifty times more likely to be ganked so the faster mission income will mean nothing because a day will come when you make a mistake and die, offsetting all the benefits of the upgrade.

That's why im trying to find alternatives to missioning, such as null sec explo, but that has its own set of issues.


The big difference is what puts EvE on a place apart.

In the other MMOs you grind => improve your in game character.

In EvE you learn => improve your RL self and become smarter and experienced.


Of course EvE is "large enough" to accomodate people who only wish to follow the traditional MMO path, but severely caps them as you noticed.

There's a vast disconnection between the two game models. Doing the jump over this fence for a guy who is long time accustomed to pony up his way to "better gear" is very hard and harsh.

Most refuge in blobbing as it's the easiest way to "improve by proxy" with less personal involvement.

The few who endure in this EvE narrow path, become the R&K or the Kil2 (just to name few) of the game: amazing to see, one asks himself how the heck they pull certain stunts.

Others understand the "meta-ness" of the EvE improvement path and directly go become trusted 3rd party services and similar, where the challenge is not in pixels ships any more but in succeeding at the hardest task: be trusted in a lawless system where trust is the second most precious resource (the first is... Time).

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Miles Parabellum
Core Collapse Inc
#24 - 2013-09-19 06:46:45 UTC
Winning is everything.
The means are unimportant.

... On a distant second and third are lulz and tears.

Also, great trolling :)
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#25 - 2013-09-19 06:46:47 UTC
Sol Kal'orr wrote:
Complains that people are risk averse. Has forum alt.



Complains that people are risk averse. Flies nullified and stabbed t3s.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-09-19 07:24:07 UTC
Because EVE is run by sociopaths.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
#27 - 2013-09-19 07:40:00 UTC
Poster Master wrote:
I am very disappointed with the blobbing and it seems most of the time it is so unnecessary it is almost not fair that those same people who blob make fun of hi-secers for being risk averse.

For instance, I was drunk playing EvE (again), so I carebeared the crap out of my ship (I will admit) by having a nullified Proteus with warp core stabs (!!!) because that day I just wanted to fly around and do exploration and generally not engage in high stress activities.

I was in a system that had one other person there, and I saw probes on d-scan but I wasn't too concerned because of the warp stabs. I must have spent 20 minutes doing different sites before the guy decloaked in his T3 and warp scrammed me. At that same time the local spiked like crazy - they were his friends.

Now I am wondering, why was the guy willing to sit for 20 minutes doing nothing but cloaking staring at my ship, and wasting the time of 20 people, when he clearly saw on my ship (1) the amount of turrets was so small it wouldn't kill a frig (2) cov ops subsystem (3) nullifier (4) scanning subsystem (5) I was doing sites, which meant I took up slots for analyzer mods ... this means my ship was gimped to heck, NO MATCH for his ship no matter how you look at it (even if he didnt know about warp stabs). Yet he waited for his buddies to show up, and wasted all of their times because obviously as soon as he scrammed me I warped away and jumped out.

Is this game nothing but blobbing anymore?


For the same reason you post on a faceless alt.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#28 - 2013-09-19 08:09:06 UTC
WTF are you talking about OP? They brought 20 ships when it was quite possible that your team had 25 ships sitting in a wormhole waiting to BBQ them. They should be applauded for taking that risk.

And you were in a system with local, monitoring the opposition, talking about risk averse?

Lol.

Missioning in a 1.0 system is as dangerous as that.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-09-19 08:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
People grind for ships. People want to fly something better than throwaway (actual price depends on person's income) ships, but they don't want to spend most of their time in EVE grinding. So ofc they try their best to finish their task without getting blapped. It's not a rocket science.

Personal experience: getting blown up helps. Sometimes makes you realize how much (lttle) you care for the thing that got blown up. Still better than grinding for nothing. Initially, there's also a lot to learn from such occasions. It's not always "couldn't do anything about that anyways" case.

That said, logistical issues of getting blown up can be quite annoying, as well as preparation of number of spare ships and redeploying them from hubs.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2013-09-19 09:19:25 UTC
Poster Master wrote:
I flew one of the most powerful ships in the game that can also fit a covert cyno in a way that looked like an obvious bait, people still tried to gank me but I was stabbed, then went to the forums to post about how others are risk-averse ... on an alt


1/10

.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2013-09-19 09:22:03 UTC
Poster Master wrote:
I am very disappointed with the blobbing and it seems most of the time it is so unnecessary it is almost not fair that those same people who blob make fun of hi-secers for being risk averse.

For instance, I was drunk playing EvE (again), so I carebeared the crap out of my ship (I will admit) by having a nullified Proteus with warp core stabs (!!!) because that day I just wanted to fly around and do exploration and generally not engage in high stress activities.

I was in a system that had one other person there, and I saw probes on d-scan but I wasn't too concerned because of the warp stabs. I must have spent 20 minutes doing different sites before the guy decloaked in his T3 and warp scrammed me. At that same time the local spiked like crazy - they were his friends.

Now I am wondering, why was the guy willing to sit for 20 minutes doing nothing but cloaking staring at my ship, and wasting the time of 20 people, when he clearly saw on my ship (1) the amount of turrets was so small it wouldn't kill a frig (2) cov ops subsystem (3) nullifier (4) scanning subsystem (5) I was doing sites, which meant I took up slots for analyzer mods ... this means my ship was gimped to heck, NO MATCH for his ship no matter how you look at it (even if he didnt know about warp stabs). Yet he waited for his buddies to show up, and wasted all of their times because obviously as soon as he scrammed me I warped away and jumped out.

Is this game nothing but blobbing anymore?


All that counts is to win. Dead capsulers might be cool....but dead.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-09-19 09:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
OP: In a cloaky/proby ship, you really needed to play rabbit better.

I suggest you get a nereus and go do laps in lowsec before you take a T3 into nulsec. You need to work out more.

Actually no. take a FACTION FIT nereus and go do laps through lowsec. If you're not sweating, you're screwing up.

EVE School is hard.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Llwelyn- ap-Lorwerth
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#33 - 2013-09-19 09:36:05 UTC
In short

Risk = death = more grind = misery = personal RL unhappyness = rage quit = 30k players logging on at prime time.

I hope this answers your question Twisted
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-09-19 09:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
and how many of those players are actually the same person on main/alts?

I know of quite a few people with a half-dozen alts. A lot of PvP'ers keep an alt in the closet to get around their negative sec-status. I have an assistant account myself. It's so common, you can count on it.

so it's a bit more like 30k accounts, 15k players, and who knows how many are AFK and aren't really playing?

EVE is still a very niche community. So much so they started their own RMT system (plex). Only CCP knows how long new/returning players stick around before they cancel their subs.

CCP could go bankrupt if we cashed in all the PLEX they've flooded on the market (it's free money!).

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Llwelyn- ap-Lorwerth
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#35 - 2013-09-19 09:58:40 UTC
Twylla wrote:
and how many of those players are actually the same person on main/alts?

I know of quite a few people with a half-dozen alts. A lot of PvP'ers keep an alt in the closet to get around their negative sec-status. I have an assistant account myself. It's so common, you can count on it.

so it's a bit more like 30k accounts, 15k players, and who knows how many are AFK and aren't really playing?

EVE is still a very niche community. So much so they started their own RMT system (plex). Only CCP knows how long new/returning players stick around before they cancel their subs.

CCP could go bankrupt if we cashed in all the PLEX they've flooded on the market (it's free money!).


You make a very valid point how many real life bums on seats are there out of the few thousand who are recorded as being logged on I would agree with you and say in reality very few.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-09-19 10:35:32 UTC
Well, he has to de-cloak to lock you, even with a passive targetter (I think) and he has to lock you to scan you to know you aren't fitting a covert or an ordinary cyno and so aren't going to counter-drop him. He only knows whether you were legit anom nomming when he sees your KM.

Sucks doesn't it. Personally I hate to see KMs where people have cargo full of salvage and anom stuff, obviously fit for running them and not really much of a threat at all. Sometimes I will find the player it happened to, convo them (with an alt) and refund them their loss, including lost cargo. Obviously I don't tell my comrades I've done that, as it's against the law!
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-09-19 11:36:53 UTC
ok guys we are a ten man fleet but this next battle only needs 3 of us so i need 7 of you to volunteer to sit here and wait while we kill stuff........
said no one ever because it would be ********.
you roam with the group you roam with. you take what kills come your way. you hope to find a decent match up at some point in the evening that isn't one sided.
The last category is hard to find so you take the kills you find as you find them.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#38 - 2013-09-19 13:27:47 UTC
Poster Master wrote:
I am very disappointed with the blobbing and it seems most of the time it is so unnecessary it is almost not fair that those same people who blob make fun of hi-secers for being risk averse.

For instance, I was drunk playing EvE (again), so I carebeared the crap out of my ship (I will admit) by having a nullified Proteus with warp core stabs (!!!) because that day I just wanted to fly around and do exploration and generally not engage in high stress activities.

I was in a system that had one other person there, and I saw probes on d-scan but I wasn't too concerned because of the warp stabs. I must have spent 20 minutes doing different sites before the guy decloaked in his T3 and warp scrammed me. At that same time the local spiked like crazy - they were his friends.

Now I am wondering, why was the guy willing to sit for 20 minutes doing nothing but cloaking staring at my ship, and wasting the time of 20 people, when he clearly saw on my ship (1) the amount of turrets was so small it wouldn't kill a frig (2) cov ops subsystem (3) nullifier (4) scanning subsystem (5) I was doing sites, which meant I took up slots for analyzer mods ... this means my ship was gimped to heck, NO MATCH for his ship no matter how you look at it (even if he didnt know about warp stabs). Yet he waited for his buddies to show up, and wasted all of their times because obviously as soon as he scrammed me I warped away and jumped out.

Is this game nothing but blobbing anymore?

Most people are not looking for a challenge they just want the kill mails to look and feel cool and to call themselves pvper's....even if its only clubing baby seals on the beach.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-09-19 13:45:44 UTC
People would rather not play the game at all than play and lose.
Losing means failing and failing means being wrong and being wrong is a blow to one's ego and a blow to one's ego means a diminished sense of self-esteem/self-confidence.

People would rather not play the game at all than lose self-esteem/self-confidence. Losing literally makes them die a little bit inside . . .

"This game will belong to us, or to the sea."
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#40 - 2013-09-19 14:16:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Poster Master wrote:
Twylla wrote:


stuff
I'm sorta in that position now, having 'fallen out' of the nulsec bullsht, and now I can't put my skillset to any use in highsec 'cause of the rampant ganking and trolling. I hadn't had a mack undocked for ten minutes in my quiet, out of the way 'summer home' before I had scanners and gankers all over the place. Luckily, I'm smarter than your average bear and knew when to cut out, but it's sad.


Agreed, this creates a lack of progression.

You must be lost. In EVE, the only progression is that which you direct. No hand-holding. Nor game arc. Just you, and whatever you choose to do.

Quote:
In other games, you get those 3%, 5%, 1% upgrades to your character and 5 months later you pride yourself on having a 20-25% better character.

This isn't "Other Games." This is EVE Online.
If you're bored, that's your own problem. Try doing something different, eh? Got spare cash? Roll an Red v. Blue alt, and buy a huge stack of disposable frigates. Or buy a bunch of cheap-fit dessies and go gank folks. Or take a *serious* stab at Nul-Sec exploration (issues and all - they're juzst challenges to overcome, yanno!), or invading WHs, or...

...Or in any other way expand your horizons. If you're limiting yourself to missions or avoiding styles of play due to 'issues,' you're not taking full advantage of the game.


Llwelyn- ap-Lorwerth wrote:
In short

Risk = death = more grind = misery = personal RL unhappyness = rage quit = 30k players logging on at prime time.

I hope this answers your question Twisted

You're doing it wrong.
Podding is the consequence for failure. Sometimes it is the consequence for merely being unlucky, too. It is the spur which drives learning (as opposed to training Skills). Learning leads to increased success. Success results in IRL happiness. Happiness... Well, that's its own reward, isn't it?