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ECM Madness: In the Midst of Deadspace [5 of 5]
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Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#1 - 2013-09-18 15:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeril Malkyre
(Level 4, Amarr/Caldari)

I come to you, fellow capsuleers, with rage in my heart. This frelling mission has been the bane of my digital existence. Evil

How does anyone complete the gods forsaken final room? The Taibu State Tendai can apparently target disrupt from across the ENTIRE GRID. I recently bought and fit an MJDing, artillery sniping Maelstrom just for this one room, hoping to be able to out distance them. At 204 km, they were still able to drop my targeting to zero. There are breaks of a few seconds where they stop jamming, but by the time I've targeted something again (even running a scan resolution sebo), I get maybe a shot or two off before they jam me again for another minute.

Ignoring the spawns and attacking the Assembly Plant directly aggros the spawns, which have cruise missiles that can hit out to about the same range, plus the jamming. So then I get pounded with no chance for recourse.

In the past I even racked a backup Ladar array to try and harden myself against them. No difference. Jammed, unable to fire back.

I've got nothing left, I don't know what to do. Help me mission runners, you're my only hope.

[Maelstrom, Barrage: Level 4's large arty]

Reactor Control Unit II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script (switched for range when at the previously mentioned 204km)

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II

[Edit to add: My skills are damn near max in all possible related categories]
Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-09-18 15:26:19 UTC
1) Fit counter ECM
2) Use sentries
3) Decline that mission
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#3 - 2013-09-18 15:39:53 UTC
Jonas Staal wrote:
1) Fit counter ECM
2) Use sentries
3) Decline that mission
1) Did, didn't help.
2) Not a drone boat, so that training is not really in my wheelhouse.
3) Come back if you think of an actual solution.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#4 - 2013-09-18 16:03:54 UTC
Use your drone to kill him? Use an alt in a noob ship and hope he jam your alt instead of your main.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-09-18 16:12:39 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Jonas Staal wrote:
1) Fit counter ECM
2) Use sentries
3) Decline that mission
1) Did, didn't help.
2) Not a drone boat, so that training is not really in my wheelhouse.
3) Come back if you think of an actual solution.


Why ask for help if you're going to reject the answers?
Damon Blood
Back Alley Abortion Clinic
#6 - 2013-09-18 17:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Damon Blood
Drones is the best answer. I guess FOF missles would work as well if you have the skills.

Oh and Sensor booster has nothing to do with stopping him from jamming. fit ECCM module.
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#7 - 2013-09-18 17:51:22 UTC
Another answer it to present itself shortly for you so start working for it now


Train for Marauder, wait for the patch that introduces bastion mode, In bastion mode it will be immune to ecm.
Eggs Ackley
#8 - 2013-09-18 18:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Eggs Ackley
Thousands of people have successfully completed the mission. Drones are best for your needs. Not sentries. Last I checked Mael has a drone bay.


And your attitude sucks. At the end of the day it is the pilot.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#9 - 2013-09-18 18:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeril Malkyre
Take a deep breath folks. Just trying to complete this mission with what I have.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Why ask for help if you're going to reject the answers?
Just asking doesn't imply that every answer is going to work equally. I've already got the mission. I already fit counter ECM in the form of backup arrays. Training up an entirely new drone system isn't really a useful answer. Especially when the rest of the thread's consensus seems to be regular drones can do the job.

My concern would be that drones tend to get themselves killed with the AI changes. I suppose I could brick up the tank and let them chew on me while the drones plink away. With no targeting, i have no real way to keep aggro off of them. Not ideal, but at least I can lock them on target once before I get jammed.

Robert Morningstar wrote:
Train for Marauder, wait for the patch that introduces bastion mode, In bastion mode it will be immune to ecm.
I use one already, but waiting won't help me on this particular go round :) And that's assuming the threadnaught over that doesn't see changes to the entire Bastion concept.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-09-18 18:57:46 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:


Just asking doesn't imply that every answer is going to work equally. I've already got the mission. I already fit counter ECM in the form of backup arrays. Training up an entirely new drone system isn't really a useful answer. Especially when the rest of the thread's consensus seems to be regular drones can do the job.


Then it becomes obvious that you didn't fit enough for the job. Fit real ECCM in a mid slot, back up arrays (a low slot module) aren't great help. I've completed that mission dozens of times using Minmatar ships (Mael, Tempest, macharial) without a problem.

Most of us (more experienced mission runners) have no problem completing a mission you can't seem to figure out on your own, this is why you posted here asking questions, so i suggest listening rather than claiming "I already did that" when in fact you haven't. The advice Jonas Staal gave you is all you needed.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#11 - 2013-09-18 19:27:58 UTC
I have no idea WTF are you doing in this mission but I dispatch those two Tendai cruisers within 2 minutes without any ECCM. And I did it in Mach, Tengu, Loki, Mael and once even in Cynabal.

What I always do is lock'em up first and start pounding. When ECM hits I wait it out, lock the one I previously was hitting and finish the job before second ECM hits. Then I take care of second Tendai AND ONLY WHEN BOTH ARE DEAD i move to rest of their group.

Maybe you should train more and fit ACs instead of slowass arties.

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The Bounty Collector
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-09-18 19:40:48 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Jonas Staal wrote:
1) Fit counter ECM
2) Use sentries
3) Decline that mission
1) Did, didn't help.
2) Not a drone boat, so that training is not really in my wheelhouse.
3) Come back if you think of an actual solution.



4) Confirming Aeril Malkyre will be wardecced.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#13 - 2013-09-19 00:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Jonas Staal wrote:
1) Fit counter ECM
2) Use sentries
3) Decline that mission
1) Did, didn't help.
2) Not a drone boat, so that training is not really in my wheelhouse.
3) Come back if you think of an actual solution.



Non elite gurista supposedly have a jam strength of 3, and many gurista don't jam, more cruisers than other ships, and certain battleships, which you can learn the names of. Some databases(Grismar) list elite gurista as having much higher jam strength, but as someone that lives in gurista space and shoots up to 300 gurista an hour, I don't personally recall much evidence of it (if they do, they mustn't roll the jam every possible cycle).

Battleship with skill and no ECM has a sensor str of (roughly) 20, battleship with skill and 2x eccm II of the correct race has a sensor strength of roughly 95.

Odds per ship and cycle of getting jammed with no ECCM, 15%
Odds per ship and cycle of getting jammed with 2 ECCM, 3%

One imagines that will play out to roughly 5x reduction in the incidence of "chain jamming" as well and would probably make the "perma" jam thing very, very rare. Its never happened to me on a ship with 2x meta iv eccm (the midslot modules).

Note you need to fit the correct racial type of ECCM for your ship.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-09-19 08:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
Funny you should bring this one up. Had the same mission yesterday as well and the ECM coming out of it is quite strong. Personally though, I use sentry drones so it wasn't really a problem.

I initially locked up that group and put sentries on the first ECM cruiser. It popped fairly quick. ECM dropped and I put sentries on 2nd cruiser. The thing what bothered me most about this mission chain is my now -2.4 Amarr standing. :P

Something important to keep in mind is that a Tengu with 1 mid slot ECCM mod will have 3-4 times the sensor strength of your Maelstrom. Before compensation skills are applied, your Maelstrom only has a sensor strength of 21, while for example my Rattlesnake sits on 30. A bog standard Tengu will sit on 40ish, and one with an ECCM-Gravimetric II in the mids, will go as high as 80.

Basically, if I was you, I'd fit some ECCM. For the mids you can use "ECCM - Ladar II" mod, if you would rather drop a low, you can fit a "LADAR Backup Array II". That and a flight of Hornet IIs should make this a much easier fight. Keep in mind that a low slot backup array is only half as effective as a proper activated mid slot ECCM item.

Also, have you tried using 800mm Repeating Artillery IIs? Your fit relies a lot on sniping, when in this case it really isn't that effective. Personally I'd fit 4 Gyro's and a tracking mod in the lows, 2 tracking mods + tank in the mids (maybe with a cap booster), and a rack of 800mm II guns. IF you still have ECM problems after that, I'd drop a Gyro for an ECCM low. Howeven, since you're shooting at cruisers at like 40km-50km away (which also don't aggro on warp in) you should be OK.

One more thing about this mission is that you kind of have to loot. I usually skip most of the looting except for named or high bounty targets, but in this one the insignias from all levels are worth a decent amount of ISK. It does make the mission chain last a fair bit longer than it really should if you're in a slow battleship. :P
Julius Priscus
#15 - 2013-09-19 12:07:17 UTC
come winter use a marauder ..
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#16 - 2013-09-19 14:01:10 UTC
Fit more ECCM. Simple as that, go for the 2 cruisers first and then do the mission like normal. It's not that hard really, most people just try out different setups until they can manage it instead of whining on the forums.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#17 - 2013-09-19 15:59:38 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
One more thing about this mission is that you kind of have to loot. I usually skip most of the looting except for named or high bounty targets, but in this one the insignias from all levels are worth a decent amount of ISK. It does make the mission chain last a fair bit longer than it really should if you're in a slow battleship. :P


This mission is great for farming, each day you can collect tags for 40-50mil and you have 7 days to finish it. Just don't blow up that station or whatever it is you suppose to blow up until last day.

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Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#18 - 2013-09-19 17:20:38 UTC
Appreciate the further responses, they're what I was looking for. I keep trying to outrun the jamming with sniping, and the answer seems to be going the other direction: bricking up and taking out the jammers during the gaps. And drones.

Good to know about the mid-slot active ECCM. Usually going up against Angels, I clearly haven't learned enough about ECM in general and how to combat it. Target painters don't keep me from shooting back :)

Thanks for the assistance all. I'll shift my Vargur's fit and go back in tonight with ACs to the face.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-09-20 10:25:06 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
This mission is great for farming, each day you can collect tags for 40-50mil and you have 7 days to finish it. Just don't blow up that station or whatever it is you suppose to blow up until last day.

Only if you don't care about Amarr standings. :P
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#20 - 2013-09-20 10:48:06 UTC
Why should I care about slavers scum feelings towards me? :)

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