EVE General Discussion

First allow me to clarify I'm not particularly a multiboxer (I only have two accounts at present), and while I have dabbled in the use of ISBoxer it's not something I do at present. I did however conduct many a forum search before doing so in the past, generally with the results I was looking for.

So today a german corpie brought the following thread to our attention earlier today:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3625262

For those of you that can't read it, or can't press the translate button, it's pretty clear. The use of the repeating/key-broadcast features (ie, the core features) of ISBoxer are very illegal. This is in contradiction to previous dev/GM posts on these very forums that state although ISBoxer repeater does automate clicks, it still requires human input to begin with and is therefore acceptable.

I know EULAs and ToS's change over time. If ISBoxer has now been deemed unacceptable, I'm fine with that. What I'm troubled with is the very apparent lack of clarity on the ruling (or change of ruling, as the case may be). ISBoxer use within Eve Online is still very much at large, especially with miners and PVE'ers, but also with plenty of PVP'ers I know of as well.

Can we just get a clear, public (ie a dev blog post) single statement on what is and isn't legal within ISBoxer to use, please?

EDIT - oh, and apologies if this is in the wrong section, move it if needed!

EDIT2 - title edited to reflect more accurate enquiry and avoid being software specific, as pointed out by Lady Areola

Apparently reading comprehension is hard as well.

Searching brings up plenty of threads by GMs stating ISBoxer is legal, as it requires human input.

Phantom has now stated it's illegal, but only in the German forum section.

Read before posting, it helps.

Isboxer is in the same boat as everything else in Eve. It breaks the EULA/TOS but CCP may or may not ban you for it. CCP also reserve the right to change their minds at anytime in the future without telling you.

A more serious answer:

CCP can not tell you if a third party program is ok to use. They have no control over it.

Today CCP say ISBoxer is ok to use and doesn't break the EULA. Tomorrow the creators of that program could change it so that it does break the EULA.

You use any 3rd party programs at your own risk.

Apparently quoting is also hard. My point was that multiple threads already exist on the subject & that instead of making a new one that will be locked, you could post in an existing thread. Also recent history should show you that GM's don't know what they're talking about anyway & like to make up new rules on the spot that aren't actually supported.

"I can't find anything wrong with what you've said, so I will say silly things instead" ~OP.

I guess that it is correct, that if you make a reply to a thread on the forum 1/10000 someone is going to rage massively on you.

Okay.. I have read the thread posted and if I have understood correctly (google translate isn't the best lol) the issue is ISBoxer has functions which break the EULA.

So, the application itself is okay so long as those functions are not used?

If that is right then personally I would ban the application simply because it removes any grey areas.

I do agree that CCP need to produce a Dev Blog regarding ISBoxer and explain to the letter what their stance is, which functions are allowed and which aren't.

There is too much grey area concerning ISBoxer, too many contradicting statements in threads spread all over the forum.

Good point, although we've still got a hefty grey area. As even our friendly thread-Goon points out, simple searches of the forums will give you dev posts saying the key broadcast features of ISBoxer are within the terms of the EULA. What we've now got just a week ago in the German forums is a GM and Developer saying that these very same key broadcast features are now illegal under the EULA.

So we now have two possibilities:

1 - The EULA (or official interpretation of the EULA) has now changed to outlaw key broadcast methods (be they ISBoxer or other such programs) without clarification to the end users

2 - Key broadcasting methods (again, whether ISBoxer or other such programs) are illegal under the EULA only in Germany (since this new stance is only written on the German forums).


Either is problematic, I'd say :)

It seems to be a recent recurring issue. Fortunately we have the CSM drilling CCP over the contradictions between the EULA/TOS & what Devs/GM's actually say.

I'll need Camper101 to assist with full translation, but this post by Karidor:



Seems more direct regarding keypresses and so forth, and the transmission of said keypresses.

Again, if this was just a GM posting I think we'd all be ignoring it. It's the fact that Phantom posted verifying what Karidor is saying as binding and the correct/lawful stance of CCP on automation that made me think "haaaang on a minute!".

Translation:

And before this question comes up: yes, this technically affects Mouse- and Keyboard-macros of all kinds as well. Even when we made exceptions in the past when it came to the activation of multiple modules at the same time of a single character (binding F1, F2, F3... etc to a single key, which is by now available in game by grouping weapons)

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The interesting part about this thread is, that Karidor stated that the use of broadcasting keystrokes is a violation of the EULA and this was backed by CCP Phantom. Well, if CCP was kind enough to release a clear devblog stating the official stance of CCP on that topic, so that everyone can see it, I think it would help a lot of players.

Especially since not everyone lurks around the Eve-O forums ;)

Edit: here you go for the keystroke part:


Summary: wether an EULA violation happens through a robotic arm, third-party software, sticks or whatever is not relevant for the EULA violation itself. And when a click is distributed to multiple clients this parallelization falls under "automation" - or to use the phrasing of the EULA...


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