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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#901 - 2011-11-17 12:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
**** forums are ****
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#902 - 2011-11-17 12:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Have to be stoned not to have anything you put effort into affect you.

Everybody in this game puts in effort to aquire their pixels.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
No, I think you are just looking to justify your actions and I refuse to accept that.

If you refuse to accept that, to some people, Eve is just a game the problem is entirely yours. How am I supposed to tell if a player has a mental illness in real life and why should it even enter into my mind while playing a video game? I always assume that everyone I play with is a rational human being.
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
#903 - 2011-11-17 12:51:20 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
I know this is going to be a controversial topic (mostly everyone vs. me I think...)...

Controversial, yes. And just as dumb and pointless.

Huehuehue wrote:
It seems to me that most of EVE player community seems to think , even if they don't do this themselves, that it's okay to shoot down a lone miner or missioner in low sec, steal ore, threaten someone for money etc.

Yes. Because it is. End of controversy. End of discussion.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#904 - 2011-11-22 10:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote:
...
If you refuse to accept that, to some people, Eve is just a game the problem is entirely yours. How am I supposed to tell if a player has a mental illness in real life and why should it even enter into my mind while playing a video game? I always assume that everyone I play with is a rational human being.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect

Quote:
It's Just a Game
Core Concept: Dissociative Imagination

By combining solipsistic introjection with the imagination, a feeling of escapism is produced – a way to throw off mundane concerns to address a specific need without having to worry about consequences. According to Suler's[1] personal discussion with lawyer Emily Finch (a criminal lawyer studying identity theft in cyberspace), Finch's observation is that people may see cyberspace as a kind of game where the normal rules of everyday interaction don't apply to them. In this way, the user is able to dissociate their online persona from the offline reality, effectively enabling that person to don that persona or shed it whenever they wish simply by logging on or off.


Being dissociative with your online persona is a kin to having multiple personalities and that is a mental health problem.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#905 - 2011-11-22 12:42:53 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The obligatory wiki link......
Did you actually read that, or just think because the word game was mentioned, it was somehow related?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ghoest
#906 - 2011-11-22 12:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghoest
It not "immoral" to gank in low sec because its accepted that avoiding ganks is part of the game. Its like saying its immoral to charge rent in monopoly.

If you think people are being mean to you when they do this then you are trying to play by your own rules.


What is immoral - when you make personal friendships with people then scam them.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#907 - 2011-11-22 13:14:29 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The obligatory wiki link......
Did you actually read that, or just think because the word game was mentioned, it was somehow related?


Just leave it.

Both sides just leave it.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#908 - 2011-12-06 16:54:51 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The obligatory wiki link......
Did you actually read that, or just think because the word game was mentioned, it was somehow related?


Yes, in particular.

Quote:
... a kind of game where the normal rules of everyday interaction don't apply to them. In this way, the user is able to dissociate their online persona from the offline reality ...


I suggest that reading more into how the way we are allowed to speak shapes how we think and how we act can change our behaviour. For the latter, I first picked up on this hearing how Nimroy was altered in his day to day life by pretending to be Spock. If you disassociate your actions from yourself it makes for an unhealthy persona.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#909 - 2011-12-06 17:13:58 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The obligatory wiki link......
Did you actually read that, or just think because the word game was mentioned, it was somehow related?


Yes, in particular.

Quote:
... a kind of game where the normal rules of everyday interaction don't apply to them. In this way, the user is able to dissociate their online persona from the offline reality ...


I suggest that reading more into how the way we are allowed to speak shapes how we think and how we act can change our behaviour. For the latter, I first picked up on this hearing how Nimroy was altered in his day to day life by pretending to be Spock. If you disassociate your actions from yourself it makes for an unhealthy persona.
I suggest you actually read it and stop cherry picking parts to fit your argument. The fact that you had to leave of the first part of that sentence, speaks volumes.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#910 - 2011-12-06 17:31:40 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The obligatory wiki link......
Did you actually read that, or just think because the word game was mentioned, it was somehow related?


Yes, in particular.

Quote:
... a kind of game where the normal rules of everyday interaction don't apply to them. In this way, the user is able to dissociate their online persona from the offline reality ...


I suggest that reading more into how the way we are allowed to speak shapes how we think and how we act can change our behaviour. For the latter, I first picked up on this hearing how Nimroy was altered in his day to day life by pretending to be Spock. If you disassociate your actions from yourself it makes for an unhealthy persona.


Nice straw man there.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Valei Khurelem
#911 - 2011-12-06 17:37:49 UTC
EVE is a Sandbox ( Or it's supposed to be when the devs don't bugger it up ) if it helps, think of it as a game where you can choose to be good or evil, a bit like Black and White. If people choose to be evil then that's their choice as is being good, the only difference between this and a sandbox game is those villagers you sacrifice are going to be other players.

There is a great way of reminding yourself that EVE Online is just a game and I'll give you a hint, it's thin, made of glass and it projects light and images.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#912 - 2011-12-06 17:38:08 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Did you actually read that, or just think because the word game was mentioned, it was somehow related?
Yes, in particular.
So you understand that it is entirely irrelevant and inapplicable to on-line gaming?
Never Learn
Doomheim
#913 - 2011-12-06 17:38:32 UTC
The reason i'm going to start leaving my morality at the door is that every time I have given someone the benefit of the doubt in Eve I have been kicked in the balls, had my isk effected and come out on the bad side of the encounter.

From now on it's "Do onto them before they can do onto you".

The depths of depravity I have seen in Eve are almost shocking, things that can not be remotely associated with "honor" are considered acceptable, even encouraged.

I think it's time I ( and you ) overcome that inner sense of disgust at "normal Eve gameplay" and start exploring just how depraved , disgusting and low on the morality totempole we can get.
Jack Cavanaugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#914 - 2011-12-06 17:39:00 UTC
I normally have a tendency to play Lawful Good or Chaotic Good (role playing terms). From everything I've read and seen in EVE so far it seems like a majority of people have no problem and intentionally go out of their way to kill people for no reason whatsoever besides simply killing them and taking their stuff.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that in and of itself but it seems like for the most part that's the sum of EVE. Everyone is waiting to stick a knife in the back of the person in front of them and everyone else accepts it as the norm and is waiting their turn too.

I get the feeling like I'm wrong to think I shouldn't want to screw over anyone I can whenever I can.
Birchenor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#915 - 2011-12-06 17:45:36 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you


Ah - you had me right up to that silly phrase. An anti atheist bash hidden in there.
I could answer it, but I know where that would lead.

Shame - a good point worthy of discussion, then you go and spoil it Roll
whatever whateverson
Doomheim
#916 - 2011-12-06 17:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: whatever whateverson
To the OP, if there is no evil how do you know what is good? In other games you have to kill (fps's etc.) So everyone is evil? In other MMO's you have to be good, so no evil? In EVE we see the truth, how many aholes really do play games and I want to finish with, only in EvE can someone be TRULY a GOOD person, because you have a REAL CHOICE!

So I am good in the game, many other people are as well :) Some of the best people I have ever met online has been in EvE!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#917 - 2011-12-06 17:52:17 UTC
Jack Cavanaugh wrote:
I normally have a tendency to play Lawful Good or Chaotic Good (role playing terms). From everything I've read and seen in EVE so far it seems like a majority of people have no problem and intentionally go out of their way to kill people for no reason whatsoever besides simply killing them and taking their stuff.
Pff. True Neutral is true evil… P
Also, Chaotic Neutral ftw!
Birchenor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#918 - 2011-12-06 17:59:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pff. True Neutral is true evil… P
Also, Chaotic Neutral ftw!



Neutral is what it is. Freedom..true freedom now THAT'S terrifying, essp when you realise that for it to actually exist - it needs to apply to everyone.

A truly free world would be a terrifying place.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#919 - 2011-12-06 18:10:02 UTC
Birchenor wrote:
Neutral is what it is. Freedom..true freedom now THAT'S terrifying, essp when you realise that for it to actually exist - it needs to apply to everyone.

A truly free world would be a terrifying place.
Probably. But even so, if we were to apply those alignments to the game, I'd say that true (or chaotic) neutral is fairly close to the core philosophy of the world as a whole…

…and that would imo explain why it throws so many people because it's very rare to see it being represented even remotely correctly. EVE doesn't quite get there either, but it's closer than most.
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#920 - 2011-12-06 18:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
ffs