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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#801 - 2011-11-07 05:27:43 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
There is too many attacks motivated by kill boards and just to upset other players, picking on them.
I understand the ones done for loot but there isn't much left after a mining barge pops

Who has better morals...the person shooting a defenseless rock or the person who kills the miner and protects the rock?


You jest, but that about nicely summs it. Moral Relativity is the doom of the human-kind / just saying.

If you put value on life 0 / since value itself is based only in an ideology. And everything else got about the same value than we are screwed.




EVE is a game. On the internet.

Please don't let us act any different from how we act in Real Life, or deviate only slightly from Kantian morality.

It would be the doom of mankind. Just saying.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#802 - 2011-11-07 05:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?


Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral!

How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is.


well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined

EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals.

Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game.

Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined.

But its been allready discussed to no end.. .

As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side.

Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.

edit jsut free stream of thought

The fact that you are emotionally attached to bunch of pixels is your problem and you should seek help ??

oh really?

The fact that you are emotionally attached to make someone feel miserable in game is your problem and you should seek help.

In the end we can discuss what emotions are and how they are created.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#803 - 2011-11-07 05:33:31 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?


Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral!

How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is.


well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined

EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals.

Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game.

Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined.

But its been allready discussed to no end.. .

As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side.

Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.



What are you rambling on about? Seriously. What's your thesis here?

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#804 - 2011-11-07 05:34:26 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?


Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral!

How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is.


well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined

EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals.

Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game.

Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined.

But its been allready discussed to no end.. .

As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side.

Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.


Its an RPG. Role-Playing Game. If you want to grief players and harass them and extort them for money, that IS PART OF THE GAME. Its not specifically defined word-for-word in the 'eve rulebook' but, tehre IS NO EVE RULEBOOK, that is the rule! You are completely free to set your own goals within the game, as you said. Hulkageddon is an awesome example of this community-created goal in which many participate in.

It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#805 - 2011-11-07 05:36:03 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:

It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone


There you have it. Eve is basically a bullying simulator.

It only gets touchy for those who are victims of bullying IRL and play EVE to escape it. Woops.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Jenshae Chiroptera
#806 - 2011-11-07 05:37:26 UTC
(Side note: In the same way that controlling how people speak, Internet games are changing the ways that people think and interact with each other.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#807 - 2011-11-07 05:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Well i got no personal attachment to such. I play as i feel to. And i tried killing other player ships without reason i found the very act displeasing and therefore i not doing it.

Unless i rationalize, but thats about believing in lies you create.

Other people find it fun and great and therefore they are engaged in such.

We are different.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#808 - 2011-11-07 05:40:23 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:

It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone


There you have it. Eve is basically a bullying simulator.

It only gets touchy for those who are victims of bullying IRL and play EVE to escape it. Woops.


Karma is ***** ... Kill several innocent citizens in real life then help people in game. Big smile
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#809 - 2011-11-07 05:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:

It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone


There you have it. Eve is basically a bullying simulator.

It only gets touchy for those who are victims of bullying IRL and play EVE to escape it. Woops.

thats pretty dumb idea, to escape IRL bullying by playing eveonline, a harsh unforgiving space environment without any real rules. wtf did you expect?

Escape cancer by smoking cigarettes too?

My point is you joined this game knowing the rules were: There are no rules.
If you form some kind of emotional attachment to your internet spaceship or space bucks, thats your own dumb fault. You knew the rules ahead of time. If you do not like the rules, dont play the game. Its that simple. You dont get to go into a casino and tell THEM to follow your rules. There are other people at the table and they enjoy taking your cash.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#810 - 2011-11-07 06:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
Another thread ruined by Tippia's twisted homo wannabe sapien logic.

How droll....


Oh and ladie harlot's face....ughhhhhhhhhhh

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#811 - 2011-11-07 06:06:08 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Another thread ruined by Tippia's twisted homo wannabe sapien logic.

How droll....

Can't blame Tippia for this one. This thread was ruined as soon as the OP created it.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Bebe Bijou
#812 - 2011-11-07 06:14:10 UTC
I like to be nice :)
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#813 - 2011-11-07 08:22:08 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

There's one now.


Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!

I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.




Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face)

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#814 - 2011-11-07 08:50:10 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

There's one now.


Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!

I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.




Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face)



He actually gave up several pages ago, now its just "trolling / for lack of better term" same as some people do from very start.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#815 - 2011-11-07 09:26:43 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

There's one now.


Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!

I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.




Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face)



He actually gave up several pages ago, now its just "trolling / for lack of better term" same as some people do from very start.


If I felt his argument had any merit I probably wouldn't be so condescending. But DOJ statistics and psych studies done numerous times over prove his arguments to be in fact the opposite of reality. I guess I could actually provide links to papers and dig out the DOJ statistics, but honestly I don't think it would do any good. His arguments are based in belief and emotion, no amount or reason or fact can penetrate that. He's clearly more interested in being "right". His concern for "truth" (whether such a thing is possible or desirable to obtain is another discussion) is non-existent.

I guess I could just ignore him. But lets be honest, no one comes to this board to just ignore people.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Arbiter Reborn
Perkone
Caldari State
#816 - 2011-11-07 09:32:32 UTC
mmmm tears
Why U Mad
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#817 - 2011-11-07 10:05:32 UTC
Ah I remember getting my miner blown up a few times

jetcan mining= chance of can flipping. Even when I scanned down a grav site that I thought would be all to myself, Poof. a can flipper came in to ruin my day.

Lesson learned: Always use GSC's!!!! or hauler.

Lost an industrial at a gate camp.

Lesson learned: check your routes if they pass through lowsec for player activity/ships/pods destroyed. Carry a cloak. Jump, align, hit cloak instantly, wait.... If the enemy drifts away 20-30km or so I dissengage the cloak and warp to 0.

Lost frigates at a gate camp.

lessoned learned: remote sensor boosting gatecamps will lock/scram u in less than 2 seconds. Depending on the # of people, even fittings warp core stabs won't even help. However depending on the makeup and how fast you are, 2 warpstabs may buy you enough time.

Lost a miner at a belt in a .2system

Lesson learned: dont just check local, but get that directional scanner going and as soon as someone shows up "assume" that they are coming to kill you and go ahead and warp off. Leave behind the drones if neccessary.

Lost a frigate at a complex

Lesson learned: watch your back, and know rules of engagement. If someone else's logisic drones are healing your loot stealer, don't go shooting the buddy. When dealing with flippers in highsec, gotta know the rules of engagement.

Got wardecced

Lesson learned: Wardecs suck considering someone has free reign over you clear into a .9 system. Especially hurts miners. Be in a corp that can fight good, or stick to the NPC corp.

Suicide ganked in Jita

Lesson learned: if your cargo is valuable, be paranoid. And for the love of GOD fit a shield extender in the mids on every industrial ship your gonna fly. Don't make yourself so super squishy in front of a firing squad.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#818 - 2011-11-07 17:55:34 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?


Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral!

How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is.


well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined

EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals.

Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game.

Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined.

But its been allready discussed to no end.. .

As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side.

Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.


Its an RPG. Role-Playing Game. If you want to grief players and harass them and extort them for money, that IS PART OF THE GAME. Its not specifically defined word-for-word in the 'eve rulebook' but, tehre IS NO EVE RULEBOOK, that is the rule! You are completely free to set your own goals within the game, as you said. Hulkageddon is an awesome example of this community-created goal in which many participate in.

It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone




Why do you have the go in with the "it's a sandbox" thing? Just admit what you are.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#819 - 2011-11-07 17:57:36 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

There's one now.


Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!

I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.




Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face)



He actually gave up several pages ago, now its just "trolling / for lack of better term" same as some people do from very start.


If I felt his argument had any merit I probably wouldn't be so condescending. But DOJ statistics and psych studies done numerous times over prove his arguments to be in fact the opposite of reality. I guess I could actually provide links to papers and dig out the DOJ statistics, but honestly I don't think it would do any good. His arguments are based in belief and emotion, no amount or reason or fact can penetrate that. He's clearly more interested in being "right". His concern for "truth" (whether such a thing is possible or desirable to obtain is another discussion) is non-existent.

I guess I could just ignore him. But lets be honest, no one comes to this board to just ignore people.




Please, prove away.

Still does not hide the fact that greifers and bullies are incapable of admitting it.

Waiting for your proof.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Basileus Volkan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#820 - 2011-11-07 18:18:45 UTC
Just fyi, my dear people:

Quote:
According to the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), in order to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, a patient must have a persistent history of disregard for and violation of the others’ rights, occurring since age 15, evidenced by three (or more) of the following seven traits:

- Failure to conform to social norms (evidenced by repeated unlawful behaviors)
- Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or manipulating others for personal profit or pleasure
- Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
- Irritability and aggressiveness (repeated physical fights or assaults)
- Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
- Consistent irresponsibility (such as repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations)
- Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another


Incidentally this is also what it takes to get ahead in EvE and what we Goons have been doing all along. Bear