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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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Kent Reeves
#61 - 2011-10-30 20:51:24 UTC
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#62 - 2011-10-30 20:52:03 UTC
I have a hard time believing anyone who plays EVE is half as scary as the cookie monster ;D and a third as tough as they say they are!

Ferox #1
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
#63 - 2011-10-30 20:57:08 UTC
You know what OP? There simply is no simple answer. Personally I don't really like playing the bad guy. Don't get me wrong, I like a bit of pew pew as much as the next guy, but I simply don't enjoy popping helpless victims. Not eve baiting can flippers and going surprise!

I know why I can't enjoy playing the bad guy. IRL, I'm not a nice person. I'm cynical, self centered and egoistic. Most people tell me I'm anice person, but that's part of the illusion. That illusion gives me an advantage, and most people don't even know that I'm taking advantage of them when I do.

I guess I just enjoy pretending to be nice. But in a way, I do the same IRL, even though I know better IRL. All though I'm not really sure if I'm such a nice guy in game. I don't pop "innocent" miners and mission runners, but then again, is that really a good thing? That mission runner might be an alt belonging to somebody who does. Might not, but could just as easily be.

Any ways, about 75% of my characters in AD&D where paladins. I guess playing the good guy just gives me the illusion of being good, even though I know I'm not.

I'm sure there are many reasons why people decide to play the bad guy. Not saying all of them are nice guys IRL, but I know some of them are. Games often serve as an outlet for things that bother people in life. Say for instance I would like to punch my boss in the face but I was too afraid of the consequences, a game can serve as a nice simulator to scratch that itch before it gets worse.

There is nothing wrong with such outlets. Sure, it sucks for some people that they need to suffer the loss of some pixels as a result. But in the end, as long as there are mechanics in place to deter such actions, and there are mechincs to avoid being the one who looses pixels, it's actually not really a problem.

It only becomes a problem when people are able to ruin your day even though you took every precaution to ensure it wouldn't happen to you.

Just remember, whining doesn't help, that only encourages the griefer. If anything, tell them the insurance was about to run out and you where thinking of getting rid of that ship anyways. Then thank them for helping you facilitate the transfer of the ship. That way, you ruin their day.

Stop the spamming, not the scamming!
Hexus Draidin
Intersteller Masons
#64 - 2011-10-30 21:23:56 UTC
I've heard on several occasions that how a person behaves on Eve is indicative of who they are at heart, without all of the restrictions of society. There might be some truth in this, but I'm not sure how much.

I would say in general, that if your boyfriend or girlfriend is an evil, noobkilling, tear-collecting person in EVE, you should ditch them unless you're into that. Eve has just given light to a side of themselves they keep hidden in day-to-day life.

Many people are trying to assume a role in which they have more power and can do greater things than they ever could in real life. That's half of CCP's advertising scheme right there: the POWER. I mean, you're one of the rich elite right off the bat, even as a noob. Capsuleers have the most power of anyone in the EVE universe.

As far as the ganking miners thing goes, I think that often it boils down to taking revenge on an innocent player for something that another meanie face did to you. In essence, since EVE was harsh to you, you're showing that same nature to newer, more vulnerable players. It's the bullying syndrome. Also, some people are just asshats at heart and get off on hurting others.

I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym 
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#65 - 2011-10-30 21:30:18 UTC
I think there is a basic assumption which the OP is making. It seems possible that the OP treats Eve (and gaming) as a hobby rather than a game. Bear with me: If you view Eve as a hobby, it is easy to equate ganking somebody's officer-fit CNR to keying somebody's classic Corvette that they restored in their garage. Both represent a significant investment of time and effort rather than a just pile of game mechanics if you are viewing Eve as a hobby.

That said, I would be seriously rolling the dice by deciding to take my Corvette for a leisurely drive through Mogadishu.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#66 - 2011-10-30 21:32:13 UTC
Captain Kirk is my new favourite poster :D I never knew how people were able to assume these new funny identities but some people sure can pull it off well! Takes the pressure off of everyone else (also me) who is BORING to be interesting.

Oh yeah also - in a game your actions do not define your morality, but instead your motives do. Someone killing helpless people in EVE because its fun and they like to play that way sounds like a fun person! Someone who kills them hoping and praying that it will make them sad in RL I would say yes that is... not immoral, but not something a good person would have as a motive!

Had to say something on topic right!

Ferox #1
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2011-10-30 22:30:29 UTC
i have no honrour
Solo Player
#68 - 2011-10-30 22:41:35 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
But............... [i]
OP, try to compartmentalize; this isn't ant RPG like Mass Effect, where moral choices have actual repercussions.


But they have. At least in the game. That miner will be devastated about her loss. And so will her player. He will really hate you (not just your character) for what you have done, and he will not just forget about it in the next round of the game.

A lot of you argue at every corner how EVE is NOT a game, but a sandbox. And you are correct about it. It may not be of sand and not even real in a material sense, but the work those who create put into it is real.
Their sand castles are their accomplishments, and they do exist, even if it is just in a game. Some of them may be unique masterpieces. Until along comes a griefer and tramples it into the ground.

Can you really say that morality does not come into play with sandbox bullies?
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2011-10-30 22:51:11 UTC
Occasionally when I suicide gank, I have to remind myself that it's just a game before I blow their ship out of the sky as I feel a slight pang of guilt. This is not often, usually it's just evil laughter, but occasionally that irritating morality kicks in and I think about the other person. I push that aside for the greater good though, protecting the defenseless asteroids.
Oswald Patsee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-10-30 22:53:16 UTC
"Morality" is the wrong word. It's a game and people play games to escape from reality. It's a chance for people to be something different without the consequences and limitations that curb behaviors in the real world.

Having said that, I think the real question here is "Why do people in EVE (and other MMO's turn into total assh@les at the drop of a hat?". The answer is the same as above: It's a chance for people to be something different without the consequences and limitations that curb behaviors in the real world.

I suspect that a lot of people become assh@les in game because they cannot do so in real life. The usual result of being a d*ck in the real world is usually getting your ass kicked by someone who is an even bigger tool than you are. This is the wonderful world of online gaming and MMO's, and most R /L people are bigger and stronger than the subscriber base. Just take a look at the guys in the audince at some of the Goonswarm meets posted on Youtube.

Not all EVE gamers mind you. I just suspect that a lot of the people trying to force their will in this game are the kinds of people that get picked on a lot in real life.

My .02

Commence flames.
Running Clam
#71 - 2011-10-30 22:53:58 UTC
Because e-honor is a sack of **** created by carebears so pirates could have morals, If i was a immortal space ship flying pirate IRL i would not give a **** about "morals"
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-10-30 22:59:23 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I feel like Role Playing the Villain in this MMORPG.

Video Games would be less interesting without villains.


Well said!

Even though I prefer to toy with people who can defend themselves..

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#73 - 2011-10-30 23:12:38 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil.


Not, it's not.

Today, they are a lone miner, tomorrow they could run a huge alliance.

Stop thinking small.

Everyone in New Eden is connected, but we are all still human beings sat behind a keyboard.

The most 'famous' residents of New Eden do not have special powers, they are just players like you and just like the person mining Trit in a new player corp - the only difference between them and you is choice.

You either choose to fight back, muster some friends and generally take advantage of the MMO element, or you continually repeat the same pattern without change and hope for a different result.

If you choose the latter, then I do not know what to tell you - I will not criticise you for making the choice you have, no more than you have the god-damn right, balls and shear fuckin' outright audacity to come to these forums and criticise other for choosing the former.

This is what people mean when they say 'you do not get this game', because they are absolutely right; you do not get this game.

If you lose a ship, it's your fault.

Sometimes it's your fault for picking the wrong friends, mostly is because you beleived you didn't need them - you do.

"Friends in New Eden are people who are more profitable to keep alive"
Reynir Hardarson

This space for rent.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#74 - 2011-10-30 23:21:56 UTC
In the real world I find it's in your interest, not just as a person but also someone who is working to get ahead, to be nice to everyone and always ensure you are delivering the best you can to your clients and coworkers. Ultimately your reputation is something you only get one-of... there are no alts in real life and there are definite consequences for douchebaggery.

In eve... there is no law. Evil is allowed to thrive. Alts and a "lower bar" on morality combine to render a reputation nearly meaningless in all but a few contexts (secured 3rd party traders and the like). In this internet universe, the risks to one's person is insignificant relative to the potential payout of successful evil. Therefor, I've found it behooves one to take every shot they can, work every angle they can imagine, and forget any notion of morality or "good."

That, and particularly when you are a relatively good person in RL, it's kind of fun to play on the 'dark side' for a change... just to see what your evil can do Twisted

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2011-10-30 23:52:22 UTC
@ the OP:

I avoided EVE for a long time because, though I dig Sci-Fi, it was billed as a "Hardcore PVP Game." Over time my tastes changed a little, and I eventually subscribed. This was 2008. EVE was still billed as a "Hardcore PVP Game." I don't pvp much (read: at all). I don't seek out pvp, but I understand that pvp can come find me at any time. Because EVE is a "Hardcore PVP Game." Like it was since the first day.

To sum up: If you're participating in the EVE universe in any fashion, you have indirectly consented to PVP. Markets, ships, ganks, politicking, whatever. Because EVE is a PVP game, and always has been. Even for lone miners and mission farmers. It isn't about morality. You're just doing it wrong.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Kiyl
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#76 - 2011-10-31 00:02:06 UTC
It is kind of funny, PvPers using ships to blow up the people that made em. Miners should just stop for a week and see how badly the market falls lol...
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
#77 - 2011-10-31 00:12:17 UTC
Instead of morality. Write kindness.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#78 - 2011-10-31 00:12:25 UTC
Quote:
It is kind of funny, PvPers using ships to blow up the people that made em. Miners should just stop for a week and see how badly the market falls lol...

What would be even more funny (and likely) is when that happened and the market went up like 25% and nobody cared.
Doddy
Excidium.
#79 - 2011-10-31 00:17:58 UTC
Clearly footballers who score goals have no morality on the pitch. This is terrible.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#80 - 2011-10-31 00:22:30 UTC
Wait..are you really doing this? You want a morality debate from a bunch of randy's (random online entity's) about how they act in a space ship game? Who cares really, just blow them up before they blow you up is my motto. How they act in RL doesn't matter one bit, but in the universe of Eve..that's a different story.

Oderint Dum Metuant