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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-10-30 19:02:38 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
I'm actually rather nice in game - IRL, I'm a total arse.



i bet your mam still loves ya though

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-10-30 19:06:19 UTC
John Caesse wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:

I play EVE to "escape" from real life just as much as the next guy, but I know I bring my real life morality with me to the game, I mean how could you not? That's not something you just turn off.


Yes, it is something you just turn off.

I would never indiscriminately slaughter everyone I see in a given area in real life, but I do it all the time in Call of Duty - would you say that me killing people in an FPS makes me an immoral person?


I think you misunderstand me. It's 100% okay to kill people in cod and it does not make you immoral person. That is because every player plays for fun, and the game is no fun if there's no risk of death. Yeah there are kids who fly off the handle if you dominate them but most people are good sport about it. It's not the act itself (killing, destroying) that makes the person immoral, it's the consenquense of that act. You kill a enemy in war? He expected that, he'd be bored if you'd just lay down and not fight back. You kill a guy doing lvl4 in lowsec in a faction bs just because you want a killmail? He most likely did not want to engage in combat with anyone and felt bad for losing the things he worked hard for.
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-30 19:07:34 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.


So I can come kick your ass right now and as long as I manage to evade the cops it's cool because I played by the rules? I mean the way you say it it seems to me that you suggest as long as there are no consenquense for the "evil doer" it's playing by the rules right?
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#24 - 2011-10-30 19:11:00 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.


So I can come kick your ass right now and as long as I manage to evade the cops it's cool because I played by the rules? I mean the way you say it it seems to me that you suggest as long as there are no consenquense for the "evil doer" it's playing by the rules right?

You do recognize the difference between fantasy in reality, don't you?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-10-30 19:12:34 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.


So I can come kick your ass right now and as long as I manage to evade the cops it's cool because I played by the rules? I mean the way you say it it seems to me that you suggest as long as there are no consenquense for the "evil doer" it's playing by the rules right?

:cripes:

This has to be a troll.


How are the two scenarios different? You kill a missioneer in lowsec because you can, no consenqunses = it's okay even though the guy probably feels bad. I kick your ass without anyone seeing = no consenquenses, you feel bad, but hey it's still okay.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#26 - 2011-10-30 19:13:53 UTC
I suggest that the OP never tries to play the classic board game, Diplomacy.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-10-30 19:14:24 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.


So I can come kick your ass right now and as long as I manage to evade the cops it's cool because I played by the rules? I mean the way you say it it seems to me that you suggest as long as there are no consenquense for the "evil doer" it's playing by the rules right?

You do recognize the difference between fantasy in reality, don't you?


Sure, that was a gross exaggeration but I think it's kinda scarey how people stop being moral just because they and the other guy are anonymous.
Handsome Hussein
#28 - 2011-10-30 19:14:46 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
How are the two scenarios different? You kill a missioneer in lowsec because you can, no consenqunses = it's okay even though the guy probably feels bad. I kick your ass without anyone seeing = no consenquenses, you feel bad, but hey it's still okay.

There are consequences, however, if the missioner has the balls to come back and look to kill me in return.

Most missioners/miners don't bother. They go away and sulk, log out for the night. They don't have the nads to fight for what they have in the game.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Reislier
#29 - 2011-10-30 19:15:27 UTC
Morality and consequences are not the same thing, and one is not contingent on the other.
One can be "law abiding" due to consequences, morality or both or neither.

But don't kid yourself.
A **** is gonna be a **** so man up and be the **** you really are and shout it to the masses.. "yes I am a ****."

Anything else is just denial.. and a closet **** is just sad.

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-10-30 19:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Huehuehue wrote:
if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?

nope, but we would say "he had it coming"

Sometimes what you think should happen and reality disagree - a girl should be able to walk down the street in next to nothing without having to fear anything, I should be able to walk through a bad neighborhood without having to worry who I look at and how expensive my clothes look, police should be able to patrol freely in all parts of the city, ...

But if you mistake wishful thinking for reality you had it coming and should not expect a lot of sympathy.

edit: if you don't think of morality as some spiritual revelation but more as some kind of social contract, it is perfectly plausible to have different contracts for different social groups/environments.
If I lie to someone close to me I feel different than when I lie to a complete stranger. Different moral codes for different groups/situations.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#31 - 2011-10-30 19:16:22 UTC
But............... I want to kill everyone.












Not that I could if I tried.

OP, try to compartmentalize; this isn't ant RPG like Mass Effect, where moral choices have actual repercussions.

The pie is a tautology
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2011-10-30 19:17:22 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
How are the two scenarios different?

You see Eve Online is just like real life for the following reasons

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-10-30 19:20:10 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?

nope, but we would say "he had it coming"

Sometimes what you think should happen and reality disagree - a girl should be able to walk down the street in next to nothing without having to fear anything, I should be able to walk through a bad neighborhood without having to worry who I look at and how expensive my clothes look, police should be able to patrol freely in all parts of the city, ...

But if you mistake wishful thinking for reality you had it coming and should not expect a lot of sympathy.


Sure he had it coming but that doesn't mean the assailant shouldn't be condemned. Remind me of the whole **** walk think, yeah if you go out every weekend night wearing whore uniform you can kinda expect trouble at some point but it still does not mean you deserve it.
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#34 - 2011-10-30 19:21:30 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
I'll tell you why. Because everyone that plays EVE Online is looking to escape from their real life. Sometimes that means for some of us becoming something we are not in real life.

The average person that plays EVE Online in reality would never walk over to anyone sitting at a stop light and shoot them in the face and then laugh about it. Why? Cuz' the response to that would end their life as well. But in EVE, it is okay to become that gun weilding maniac and laugh at the victim. Hell its encouraged.

If you play a video game and expect a moral compass, you are going to be very very upset with EVE. It doesn't and won't exsist.





I play EVE to "escape" from real life just as much as the next guy, but I know I bring my real life morality with me to the game, I mean how could you not? That's not something you just turn off.


Well, thats you. Some of us others what to be something we aren't in real life. I believe they call it escapism.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#35 - 2011-10-30 19:22:18 UTC
This is a game. Played for fun (and if you don't play for fun you are a moron... IMO).


In no way does this relate to real life.


That said, I am almost as nice in game as I am in RL, with a few exceptions. But that is my character. I am great at RPGs because I can take separate fantasy and reality. You apparently cannot.
gfldex
#36 - 2011-10-30 19:25:26 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil.


I'm the guy who is making the ships that are destroyed in the process. Why should I not welcome random acts of violence?

Huehuehue wrote:
How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?


I would call the police, ofc. If you take a peace in a game of me while playing by the rules I would not do so.

Huehuehue wrote:

It's so easy to be an ******* to people when you both are anonymous and it's never going to get back you. What marks a real good and moral person is his ability sympathize with others regardless of the fact who and where the other person is. "It's part of the game" is just really really bad excuse for behaving like an ******* and makes me wonder if these people are just as bad irl, or do express their inner ******* online because they don't have the balls to do it irl? I know I'd much rather just say hi to that lonely miner than blow him to pieces just because.


Your confusion comes from your inability to tell the difference between actions between players and actions between non-players. Even very young children understand the concept that consequences in games are not related to consequences out of games. Why don't you? May it be that you are the boy that wants the rules changed when the games wont go in his favour?

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-10-30 19:25:27 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.


So I can come kick your ass right now and as long as I manage to evade the cops it's cool because I played by the rules? I mean the way you say it it seems to me that you suggest as long as there are no consenquense for the "evil doer" it's playing by the rules right?

You do recognize the difference between fantasy in reality, don't you?


Sure, that was a gross exaggeration but I think it's kinda scarey how people stop being moral just because they and the other guy are anonymous.




It's not really scarey and you do know the difference between reality and fantasy.

The problem is you can't really understand how people can play bad characters, because you find it impossible to do yourself. Because as soon as you try, it does not take long before you question it and get no satisfaction from from playing that character.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#38 - 2011-10-30 19:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
David Grogan wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
I'm actually rather nice in game - IRL, I'm a total arse.



i bet your mam still loves ya though



If she could remember me, she probably wouldn't after I let her declare legally incapable due to Alzheimer, put her into a cheap retirement home and sold her house...


Anyway - I recently watched a guy jetcan-mine in a vexor for ages in highsec - I just stuck around there cloaked, because I was fascinated by the fact it was a genuine noob, not some macro-mining assfag in a Hulk I'd kill for the lulz any day.

Eventually, he warped off to get his hauler, so I warped in an alt of mine in a hauler and stole the half-filled jetcan and warped off again (didn't want to canflip - just teach him a lesson to not leave anything floating in space unguarded) - when he returned in his itty III, he sat there for a little while, assumingly desperately looking for his can he kept filling for hours.

The sight was so sad, I actually felt a little bad about that.

Now IRL, if anyone leaves anything of value unlocked in the open and I'm certain I wont get caught, I take it and don't feel bad about it at all - if he still wanted it, he would have locked it after all.

So obviously, I have more morality in game than IRL - which is funny now that I think about it...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-10-30 19:32:34 UTC
gfldex wrote:

Your confusion comes from your inability to tell the difference between actions between players and actions between non-players. Even very young children understand the concept that consequences in games are not related to consequences out of games. Why don't you? May it be that you are the boy that wants the rules changed when the games wont go in his favour?


Actually it is you who does not seem to understand me even though I have tried to make my point more clear several times. Well let's try this once again.

You kill a missioneer. This act makes him feel bad, maybe angry. Why would you do something that makes other person feel bad?

Do you understand now? This is not about the act itself, the act itself is never immoral or moral, it's about the consenquence.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-10-30 19:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Riedle
Huehuehue wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.


So I can come kick your ass right now and as long as I manage to evade the cops it's cool because I played by the rules? I mean the way you say it it seems to me that you suggest as long as there are no consenquense for the "evil doer" it's playing by the rules right?

You do recognize the difference between fantasy in reality, don't you?


Sure, that was a gross exaggeration but I think it's kinda scarey how people stop being moral just because they and the other guy are anonymous.


I think it's kind of scary that certain people fail to differentiate between a game and real life.

If someone get's 'angry' cause I blew up their internet spaceship in a game about blowing up internet spaceships then it is they who have the problem - not me. And yes, it makes me laugh. check my bio.

Go get a real life, you need one