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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#201 - 2011-10-31 17:15:57 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Ranger 1 wrote:

If I successfully bluff you in Poker and take your money, does that make me immoral?

A bluff is making someone believe something that is untrue by misleading them... it is a lie. However this lie is allowed by the game rules, in fact it is encouraged. More importantly, everyone playing IS AWARE OF THIS.



No that is not a lie. You do not lie when you bluff in poker. A lie is saying something that is untrue when you know it is untrue.


Cearain, you have your head right up your ass atm. That is exactly what a bluff is. It is a straight out lie to the other player. On top of that many use words or facial expressions in the attempt to trick their opponent. I am not even going to respond to the latter part of this due to how outrageuos you are trying to take this.

If you want to argue that the principles of the game are immoral (see c*ck fights) then thats one thing, but GL making that sale about eve.


So if someone bluffs in poker you think you are ok to call them a liar? You are not. There was no lie involved.


But again take a friend or family member that you would trust with all the things you listed. Take your best friend. And lets say you invited them to play eve. They constantly told you they would never take your stuff in eve that you could trust them. You had a corp together and kept both your stuff in the corp hangar lets say about 50 billion worth. Then one day you were out doing a mission with him/her and he/she ganks your ship. You go back and see that all your stuff in the corporate hangars are gone. He/she tells you he did this so that he/she wouldn't have to pay for the subscription anymore.

Now what would your reaction be?
A) as though they bluffed you in poker? "yeah nice one haha its part of the game"
or
B) would you perhaps not trust them quite so much anymore?

If your best friend would do this to you, you should get better friends.



My best friend used to kick my ass in this game all the time, including many others. So has my son and my wife.

We understand that what is done in game is part of the game.

You apparently, do not.

You are also projecting real life friendship and trust into a situation that normally involves purely in game relationships, where the very nature of the game makes no bones about the ruthlessness of the rules.

Again, you are projecting.

And quite frankly, you have your head up your ass.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#202 - 2011-10-31 17:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Ranger 1 wrote:

If I successfully bluff you in Poker and take your money, does that make me immoral?

A bluff is making someone believe something that is untrue by misleading them... it is a lie. However this lie is allowed by the game rules, in fact it is encouraged. More importantly, everyone playing IS AWARE OF THIS.



No that is not a lie. You do not lie when you bluff in poker. A lie is saying something that is untrue when you know it is untrue.


Cearain, you have your head right up your ass atm. That is exactly what a bluff is. It is a straight out lie to the other player. On top of that many use words or facial expressions in the attempt to trick their opponent. I am not even going to respond to the latter part of this due to how outrageuos you are trying to take this.

If you want to argue that the principles of the game are immoral (see c*ck fights) then thats one thing, but GL making that sale about eve.


So if someone bluffs in poker you think you are ok to call them a liar? You are not. There was no lie involved.


But again take a friend or family member that you would trust with all the things you listed. Take your best friend. And lets say you invited them to play eve. They constantly told you they would never take your stuff in eve that you could trust them. You had a corp together and kept both your stuff in the corp hangar lets say about 50 billion worth. Then one day you were out doing a mission with him/her and he/she ganks your ship. You go back and see that all your stuff in the corporate hangars are gone. He/she tells you he did this so that he/she wouldn't have to pay for the subscription anymore.

Now what would your reaction be?
A) as though they bluffed you in poker? "yeah nice one haha its part of the game"
or
B) would you perhaps not trust them quite so much anymore?

If your best friend would do this to you, you should get better friends.



My best friend used to kick my ass in this game all the time, including many others. So has my son and my wife.

We understand that what is done in game is part of the game.

You apparently, do not.

You are also projecting real life friendship and trust into a situation that normally involves purely in game relationships, where the very nature of the game makes no bones about the ruthlessness of the rules.

Again, you are projecting.

And quite frankly, you have your head up your ass.


I see you avoided the question I asked. It is interesting that I can easilly answer all the questions you guys put to me but when I start asking questions about your position the thread becomes silent.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Niamo Higate
Perkone
Caldari State
#203 - 2011-10-31 17:28:15 UTC
This is a role playing game. that person that just killed your high sec miner is role playing a pirate, and pirates well there generally not the best at social skills or morals.

You dont create a character and decide to play a criminal so that you can ask people if they want to be shot. You choose to play a criminal so you can do things that people generally dont find welcoming. Its not that the person behind the avatar is looking for tears. Its the character that they are playing in game that wants the tears.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#204 - 2011-10-31 17:30:48 UTC
The game aspects of a game are fantasy. Only the rules and game medium is reality.

Morality only applies to reality and not fantasy. Unless you belief in thought crime, but then you're beyond help anyway.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#205 - 2011-10-31 17:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cearain wrote:
I see you avoided the question I asked.
Actually, he didn't.
You're just projecting again.
Quote:
So if someone bluffs in poker you think you are ok to call them a liar?
Seeing as how that's what a bluff is: telling people something that is not true, yes.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#206 - 2011-10-31 17:36:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I see you avoided the question I asked.
Actually, he didn't.
You're just projecting again.


Really what was his answer then?
What would his reaction be then if his best friend as I described robbed him?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#207 - 2011-10-31 17:40:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I see you avoided the question I asked.
Actually, he didn't.
You're just projecting again.


Really what was his answer then?
What would his reaction be then if his best friend as I described robbed him?


Thank you for proving that although you seem able to read the words, you refuse or are unable to understand their meaning.

To put it in terms that you can clearly understand.

If my friend in real life works with me in game and then ganks all of the assets, I"m going to be irritated and give him a hard time. Just as I would if I caught him trying to pull a fast one on me in a card game or a round of Risk. This is the equivalent of giving your best buddy an elbow in the ribs... for no other reason than he IS your best friend and can get away with such things from time to time.

It's a game.

If a stranger that I know only as a voice on the internet does the same, I"m even less inclined to make moral judgements. Yeah I'll be pissed, but I'll not seriously try to judge the depth of his character because of it.

If you take the loss of anything in this game personally, especially considering that none of these assets are real or even in fact owned by you, you need to step back.

I trust that is plain enough for you.

You can stop trolling now.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#208 - 2011-10-31 17:41:39 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Really what was his answer then?
“My best friend used to kick my ass in this game all the time, including many others. So has my son and my wife.

We understand that what is done in game is part of the game.”
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#209 - 2011-10-31 17:43:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Really what was his answer then?
“My best friend used to kick my ass in this game all the time, including many others. So has my son and my wife.

We understand that what is done in game is part of the game.”



Ok so by "kicking [his] ass" you think he meant what I described in my scenario?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Handsome Hussein
#210 - 2011-10-31 17:43:50 UTC
I am literally going to gank five different player's Retrievers tonight because of this thread.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#211 - 2011-10-31 17:44:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
So if someone bluffs in poker you think you are ok to call them a liar?
Seeing as how that's what a bluff is: telling people something that is not true, yes.

Actually, no. It is within a game environment, which is not 'true' to begin with. Lies only apply to obfuscation aspects of reality, a game being not real, cannot contain lies.

Then again, it depends on how orthodox you are in the definition of what is an isn't a lie, which by itself could extend on a whole discussion of its own.

Anyway, we're getting into semantics with this, a direction that usually ends nowhere (useful).
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2011-10-31 17:46:35 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ok so by "kicking [his] ass" you think he meant what I described in my scenario?

If you had any morals you wouldn't make such bad posts.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#213 - 2011-10-31 17:56:36 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ok so by "kicking [his] ass" you think he meant what I described in my scenario?

If you had any morals you wouldn't make such bad posts.



Ok I ask a few questions and the thread that was going pretty fluid with responses just sort of stops, with a few people liking a post that does nothing but throw a conclusory insult.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2011-10-31 17:59:09 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ok I ask a few questions and the thread that was going pretty fluid with responses just sort of stops, with a few people liking a post that does nothing but throw a conclusory insult.


Your posting is so bad it killed the thread. Hope you're happy.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#215 - 2011-10-31 18:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ok I ask a few questions and the thread that was going pretty fluid with responses just sort of stops, with a few people liking a post that does nothing but throw a conclusory insult.


Your posting is so bad it killed the thread. Hope you're happy.


Of course, you know better than that. The pat answers didn't quite cut it for the questions I put forward, so there is silence.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#216 - 2011-10-31 18:09:18 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ok I ask a few questions and the thread that was going pretty fluid with responses just sort of stops, with a few people liking a post that does nothing but throw a conclusory insult.


Your posting is so bad it killed the thread. Hope you're happy.


Of course, you know better than that. The pat answers didn't quite cut it for the questions I put forward, so there is silence.


What silence? Your question was bluntly answered.

The fact that it has now become blindingly apparent that you are doing nothing more now than trolling the thread means that you will be pretty much ignored from this point on.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#217 - 2011-10-31 18:15:25 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Ranger 1 wrote:

If I successfully bluff you in Poker and take your money, does that make me immoral?

A bluff is making someone believe something that is untrue by misleading them... it is a lie. However this lie is allowed by the game rules, in fact it is encouraged. More importantly, everyone playing IS AWARE OF THIS.



No that is not a lie. You do not lie when you bluff in poker. A lie is saying something that is untrue when you know it is untrue.


Cearain, you have your head right up your ass atm. That is exactly what a bluff is. It is a straight out lie to the other player. On top of that many use words or facial expressions in the attempt to trick their opponent. I am not even going to respond to the latter part of this due to how outrageuos you are trying to take this.

If you want to argue that the principles of the game are immoral (see c*ck fights) then thats one thing, but GL making that sale about eve.


So if someone bluffs in poker you think you are ok to call them a liar? You are not. There was no lie involved.


But again take a friend or family member that you would trust with all the things you listed. Take your best friend. And lets say you invited them to play eve. They constantly told you they would never take your stuff in eve that you could trust them. You had a corp together and kept both your stuff in the corp hangar lets say about 50 billion worth. Then one day you were out doing a mission with him/her and he/she ganks your ship. You go back and see that all your stuff in the corporate hangars are gone. He/she tells you he did this so that he/she wouldn't have to pay for the subscription anymore.

Now what would your reaction be?
A) as though they bluffed you in poker? "yeah nice one haha its part of the game"
or
B) would you perhaps not trust them quite so much anymore?

If your best friend would do this to you, you should get better friends.



My best friend used to kick my ass in this game all the time, including many others. So has my son and my wife.

We understand that what is done in game is part of the game.

You apparently, do not.

You are also projecting real life friendship and trust into a situation that normally involves purely in game relationships, where the very nature of the game makes no bones about the ruthlessness of the rules.

Again, you are projecting.

And quite frankly, you have your head up your ass.



Ok so by "kick [your] ass" you mean your best friend who you would trust with all the things listed in Karls original response to me, told you that you could trust him in eve and yet he stole all your assets in eve so he wouldn't have to pay for eve anymore? Your wife and son did that too?

If so, I'm sorry to hear that.

If thats not the case then you avoided the question I put to you.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#218 - 2011-10-31 18:20:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ok so by "kick [your] ass" you mean your best friend who you would trust with all the things listed in Karls original response to me, told you that you could trust him in eve and yet he stole all your assets in eve so he wouldn't have to pay for eve anymore? Your wife and son did that too?

If so, I'm sorry to hear that.

If thats not the case then you avoided the question I put to you.

You lost the argument several posts back. At this point you're just bringing shame to your family by continuing to post.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#219 - 2011-10-31 18:25:36 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Just because something is allowed by the game rules doesn't mean its moral. Lets say CCP said that if you know someone is a certain race in real life then you *must* refer to them by a racial slur everytime you see them in local. CCP would make this a rule so its "part of the game." Yet you know those people of whatever race are really hurt by this. Is it ok?

Why not?




Here is another question that was overlooked.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#220 - 2011-10-31 18:28:30 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ok so by "kick [your] ass" you mean your best friend who you would trust with all the things listed in Karls original response to me, told you that you could trust him in eve and yet he stole all your assets in eve so he wouldn't have to pay for eve anymore? Your wife and son did that too?

If so, I'm sorry to hear that.

If thats not the case then you avoided the question I put to you.

You lost the argument several posts back. At this point you're just bringing shame to your family by continuing to post.



Here comes goonswarm with their stampede of stupidity.

Does mittens know you are here posting instead of making him money and fame in null sec? You better get ratting and stop pretending you can think for yourself. You can't.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815